#1
Hi.

So recently I went shopping and saw Morbig Angel's 'Blessed Are The Sick' 2009 re-release with an hour documentary on it (it's a CD/DVD dual layer type affair I think). So I had to buy it.

I've also bought a nice set of speakers. I've got a 100W sub and two 35W Satellites. So I thought I'd turn the bass up and give it a listen.

My only complaint (as a bassist) is how can I appreciate the bass?

It's almost near impossible to make out what could be the bass (except on 'The Ancient Ones')

Do other people have the same problem?

Whilst I understand that in the works of bands like Death the bass is prominent in quite a lot of their songs but when it comes to bands that aren't so progressive it's hard to hear.

What problems might I be experiencing?
Do I not know what a bass sounds like when distorted (I don't play metal)?
Do I not know how a bass sounds like when detuned (I only play in standard. I don't play death metal)?
Do I need to turn the volume up louder?
Do I need more powerful speakers?
Is it just root notes making it hard to hear?
Is it speed/trem picking making it difficult to hear?
Or is it simply that I'm just not getting it?


The music is interesting but I'd like it even more if I could hear the bass and the ideas that are going on.

Also, if anyone would like to voice input on why it has to be recorded/mixed in such a way then please do because I've got some recording coming up soon and one of the songs could probably be classed as death metal but in standard tuning...

Ry
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Last edited by Ryan D' Ale at May 20, 2010,
#3
What problems might I be experiencing?
Do I not know what a bass sounds like when distorted (I don't play metal)?

When it's distorted (if it is) it probably sounds very much like the gutars anyway
Do I not know how a bass sounds like when detuned (I only play in standard. I don't play death metal)?
A bass sounds like a bass, detuning it won't change the timbre
Do I need to turn the volume up louder?
depends how loud you have it
Do I need more powerful speakers?
if you already have good speakers with a good low end thhen probably not
Is it just root notes making it hard to hear?
this is probably your main problem
Is it speed/trem picking making it difficult to hear?
I doubt it
Or is it simply that I'm just not getting it?
again, probably not.
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#5
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Have you tried listenito other albums/bands?


wat
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**** you gilly, it's not what you think
#6
it's not a problem as such, it's just how the tracks are mixed, and the tone and style of the bass player.

i think you're looking into things too much - if you can't hear it, assume its root note stuff to give the guitars more impact.
#8
Quote by Deliriumbassist
What are you exactly listening to it through? Give me brands and models on the CD player, amp, speakers and sub. And if possible what interconnects and speaker cable you're using.

EEDIT: And a lot of death metal is actually in standard.


Well it's not an amazing set up but I imagine it's better than what a lot of people on here have got inside their bedroom.

Logitech Z 2300 2:1 set
Running through my computer using a Creative X-Fi Titanium.

Whilst on the topic, someoen actually mentioned to me that there's negligibile difference unless you have a sound card in the £££ range so maybe it's not so great and hence weak on that front.

I actually can't recall death metal in standard tuning - ever. It would be cool if you could throw a name or two at me because I think that could help in the production of a recording we're doing.

Thx Del
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#9
early cannibal corpse stuff was in Eb.

Opeth play in standard and I've heard them referred to as prog death (even though they really aren't tbh)
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Okay guys, I have a confession to make. Not really a confession since it's something that's been bugging me for awhile but I've always been in denial about it.

**** you gilly, it's not what you think
#10
Quote by gilly_90
early cannibal corpse stuff was in Eb.

Opeth play in standard and I've heard them referred to as prog death (even though they really aren't tbh)


By standard I meant not detuned at all rather than any open rather than dropped tuning.

EADG(Be)

I used to play Cannibal Corpse when I played guitar.
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#11
yeah, I kow what you meant, I was just giving you the closest example I could think of.
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Quote by Cb4rabid
Okay guys, I have a confession to make. Not really a confession since it's something that's been bugging me for awhile but I've always been in denial about it.

**** you gilly, it's not what you think
#12
Best guess is they turned the bass way down so it is just hiding behind the guitars.
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#14
Right, that Logitech is quite a bright sounding unit. Replace the speaker wire with some copper wire, which will bring out of the lows a bit more.

On the tuning thing- Kalmah use standard tuning a fair bit, early Darkthrone IIRC, Cynic, Ensiferum, off the top of my head.
#15
Some of the oldschool stuff had really awful production (underground musicians couldn't really afford a good studio, nor a good home recording setup) - the kicks (Which were mic'ed, not triggered were very overpowering, like certain morbid angel stuff) and guitar usually overpower the bass which was mostly a deep, picked tone.
Some bands however have a very clear bassline, like Cannibal Corpse and Autopsy (One of the most underrated oldschool death metal bands), despite the age of the recording.
Also, another thing I'd like to point out, is the oldschool song structure - It was usually a very fast, thremollo picking, blastbeat and growling mash - a variety of loud playing styles, that can over-power a "follow the rythm guitar" style bassist.
#16
Sometimes you only notice good death metal bassists when they stop playing. They are there to hold the low end, push the rhythm and help make a connection between guitars and drums. If you can't hear it, try to feel it. Decapitated is a good example, although on some of their albums you can hear the bass quite well.

In my blackened death metal band you can't always hear me but you can definitely feel me. My gutarists look to me to keep the rhythm in sync and my drummer works with me to help guide the pace of the songs. This always isn't very apparent when simply listening to or watching a band play, but you can be certain the members of the band fully understand how important the bass really is.
#17
The mids on the bass are probably scooped to hell... and that's why you can't hear it
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#18
Some interesting suggestions as to why I'm not making much out.

I'm not the type who can go about replacing cables and such. My drummer can do things like that but I think I'm going to use the Creative Audio Console and play with the frequencies on there in addition to my bass control on my remote.

It's worked really well for me when I've had difficulties before.

I'll check out Autopsy and Ensiferum because I've never heard them before but heard of them lots.
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#19
a lot of Morbid Angel is obviously very fast and mostly on the lower strings. Even if they only play in Eb (or Bb on 7 strings), if you're hugging the E and maybe A strings and the first couple frets then you will be hard to hear in most circumstances, if at all. combined with the fact that early death metal is hardly an example of amazing recording quality and that the bass is probably distorted AND being played beneath two distorted electric guitars I'd be amazed if you could hear anything.

The bass is loud as hell on Autopsy's Severed Survival though.
Last edited by Steve08 at May 20, 2010,
#20
Winds of Plague
3 Inches of Blood
Slayer

All play standard for songs.
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Black people play bass.
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#21
Emphasis on old school and standard tuning.
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Deicide play in standard tuning.

Eb
Quote by Deliriumbassist
On the tuning thing- Kalmah use standard tuning a fair bit, early Darkthrone IIRC, Cynic, Ensiferum, off the top of my head.

Melodeath, probably right, not really death metal, completely not death metal.
Quote by 6stringbassist
Winds of Plague

Deathcore, and also in Eb IIRC.
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3 Inches of Blood

Not death metal.
Quote by 6stringbassist
Slayer

Thrash, and the large majority of it in Eb or C#.
#22
Atheist play in standard. Check them out for ridiculous basslines.
#23
I can hear bass fine in Scream bloody gore, i mean is it a re issue or a re recording, because a re recording might mix the bass to be lower, I have found that true with alot of music
Eh.
#24
Yeah I think the misconception of 'death metal' has shown itself through in this thread. I'm pretty sure Slayer never played in standard anyway as I used to play loads of their songs from various albums. Maybe I just picked all the wrong songs and went to the hassle of tuning down when I didn't have to

That was on guitar though. I'm only a standard tuned bassist so I don't have to switch guitars/mess around/set up a lot...

I'll be listening to some Atheist then too it'd be great to hear ridiiculous/interesting bass in genres where it's not always so crystal clear

I haven't ripped Scream Bloody Gore to my new computer yet but cheers for the pointer because I know that's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Hopefully it's an original - I have no idea though.
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Last edited by Ryan D' Ale at May 22, 2010,
#25
Try listening to stuff on the Pestilence album "Spheres", Jeroen Paul Thesseling is an absolute beast of a player; it's not really standard death metal but it is a certifiable classic and is well worth the listen. If you like his playing it would probably be worth checking out "Cosmogenesis" by Obscura, that album also features his playing and has a much MUCH more modern death sound.
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