#1
I've got a few questions, thought I'd make one thread instead of cluttering up R&R.

I'm looking for some monitors. Just wondering, does anyone have any experience with these? They seem quite good for the price, I understand some people complain about Behringer's build quality but the things I've bought from them so far seem to have all held up pretty well. In terms of sound, how are these?

For recording guitar at the moment, I'm running my guitar striaght in to the guitar input on my interface (a Tascam 122mkii). I'm then using the amp sim on Logic. Although this sounds alright, would I get drastically better results from micing up my amp? I'm think of getting an SM57, just wondering if it would really be a worthwhile investment.

I think I understand double tracking (recording the same part twice, panning one hard left and the other hard right?). What's quad tracking though? Is that recording the same thing four times and panning two left and two right?

Finally, what's the difference between a balanced input and an unbalanced input? This has always bugged me.

Thanks
#2
I don't know the answer to all of these, but:

With double tracking, you're basically right, but it's not necessarily panned anywhere. Double tracking is just used to get a phatter sound, and if you want to do it with a sound and a feeling of two guitars on the track, double tracking is the way to go instead of recording on 2 tracks simultaniously. As for quad tracking, I'm not sure, but I think it's the same thing, just with more guitars to make it even thicker. I wouldn't try it though - getting even 2 tracks close enough to sound good is a pain, so 4 would be a nightmare.

2nd, I think that the answer to your question on micing the amp is just a matter of preference. You'll have to see for yourself. Try it both ways, see which sounds better to you. I think that actual micing is better, because you're playing through an actual amp and not a simulation, so the tone will have all the benefits and the feel of an actual amp. Also, an SM57 would probably be a worthwhile thing to get, but you don't necessarily have to get exactly that - there are plenty of decent and even very good copies of it with way cheaper prices. For the purpose of testing whether or not amp micing is for you, I recommend getting one of these.
Gear:

Guitars: Ibanez SV5470F, Ibanez Xpt700, Fender MIM Standard Stratocaster ('04-'05), Jackson Ps-2
Ashton AG200,
Amps: ENGL E530, Bugera 6262-212,
FX: TC Electronics G-major 2, Behringer EQ700, Morley Volume / Wah
Last edited by The^Unforgiven at May 20, 2010,
#3
I just found an old small horizontal Freezer (not working) - drug it home and am cleaning it up to use as an isolation box - maybe record my amps without bothering Mama... now I need a SM57 cause I'm using an old Karaoke mic my wife had sitting around... I normally just use sims but am wanting to test out actually Micing my old combo tube amps...
Now running an Eleven Rack with Pro Tools 10.3.3 - it's amazing and I'm having ball with it - worth every penny. PT 10 is tops IMO and the Eleven Rack is a work of art!
Last edited by strangedogs at May 20, 2010,
#4
Quote by The^Unforgiven
With double tracking, you're basically right, but it's not necessarily panned anywhere. Double tracking is just used to get a phatter sound, and if you want to do it with a sound and a feeling of two guitars on the track, double tracking is the way to go instead of recording on 2 tracks simultaniously. As for quad tracking, I'm not sure, but I think it's the same thing, just with more guitars to make it even thicker. I wouldn't try it though - getting even 2 tracks close enough to sound good is a pain, so 4 would be a nightmare.
Thanks, I think I'm going to try double tracking. My songs at the moment sound a bit flat, maybe that's what it's lacking.
Quote by The^Unforgiven
2nd, I think that the answer to your question on micing the amp is just a matter of preference. You'll have to see for yourself. Try it both ways, see which sounds better to you. I think that actual micing is better, because you're playing through an actual amp and not a simulation, so the tone will have all the benefits and the feel of an actual amp. Also, an SM57 would probably be a worthwhile thing to get, but you don't necessarily have to get exactly that - there are plenty of decent and even very good copies of it with way cheaper prices. For the purpose of testing whether or not amp micing is for you, I recommend getting one of these.
I think I'm going to get an SM57, even if I don't end up using it for guitar it'll come in useful somewhere I bet.
Quote by strangedogs
I just found an old small horizontal Freezer (not working) - drug it home and am cleaning it up to use as an isolation box - maybe record my amps without bothering Mama... now I need a SM57 cause I'm using an old Karaoke mic my wife had sitting around... I normally just use sims but am wanting to test out actually Micing my old combo tube amps...
Think about it now, amp sims may be a better idea seeing as I don't have a nice tube amp to record, only a 65 watt Fender amp. Maybe I'll have to add that to my list of things to buy as well, recording sure is an expensive business.

If anyone has anything to add or to answer my first and last questions, please do Thanks to everyone so far.
#5
i would stay clear of those monitors. not because of brand (though that is part of it), but mostly because any pair of monitors for that price is probably not going to be any good. looked like 92 GBP for a pair, when most people recomend spending at least 250-300+ USD on a pair. now even with no idea what current conversion rates are, but somehow i dont think thats anywhere close to equal.
now i have never tried those monitors so i could be wrong, but gut feeling says to avoid them.

for double tracking, as you said, record the same part twice. as someone else said, you dont neccessarily have to pan them to opposite sides. however, i find it sound better to at least pan them somewhat away from center for a thicker sound. of course, it sounds completly different from just leaving them both centered, so you have to do what sounds best. sometimes that means panning them 100% L and R, sometimes not.
quad tracking is the same idea, but recording the part 4 times. not something ive ever really tried, but the idea is that you pan in pairs. so one pair 100% L and R and the other 70% L and R for example.
#6
Just go with M-Audio on the Monitors, just remember that volume isn't what you're looking for in monitor speakers, just good quality sound that accurately represents what you just recorded.
All American Guitarist
Gear:

Fender Mustang Special
Takamine G Series
Custom Painted Rogue Dreadnought
Bugera 2X12 Cab
Bugera V55 Head
Morley Tremonti Power Wah
Fuzz Fucker(handbuilt fuzz factory clone)
#7
Those monitors don't look too accurate...I'd have a look over the speck sheet before buying.

I personally would not go below $350 for a pair of studio monitors. They are what recreates the sound and so they have to work well so you can mix everything properly.
The new KRK Rokit G2 monitor set is very good for the price, you may want to look into those.

Balanced connections tend to use a third contact to fight hum and other things while running long lengths of cable. I generally go balanced when having to run over 20 feet of cable.

http://tweakheadz.com/war_on_hum.htm

also mid way down this pages theres a Q&A about cables which goes over balanced vs unbalanced.
http://tweakheadz.com/all_about_cables.htm
Last edited by moody07747 at May 22, 2010,
#8
Quote by moody07747
Those monitors don't look too accurate...I'd have a look over the speck sheet before buying.

I personally would not go below $350 for a pair of studio monitors. They are what recreates the sound and so they have to work well so you can mix everything properly.
The new KRK Rokit G2 monitor set is very good for the price, you may want to look into those.

Balanced connections tend to use a third contact to fight hum and other things while running long lengths of cable. I generally go balanced when having to run over 20 feet of cable.

http://tweakheadz.com/war_on_hum.htm

The KRK's look good, but its a bit annoying that they dont actually give a frequency response graph. I found some graphs of the G1's that people had made, and they look reasonably flat, so the G2's should be the same.

Balanced connections basically have 2 copies of the signal, one inverted, because any noise will be the same on each signal. When they get to the other end, the inverted signal is flipped again, cancelling out noise they have picked up.

Keep in mind though, flat monitors will be most useful when you listen to anything you've mixed only on flat monitors. Most speakers you will find people using wont be flat, so when you listen on them, something will pull back in the mix a bit. The best thing to do is to listen to your mix on a few sets of regular speakers, so you can hear what changes, and compensate for it.
#9
Ok, from the sounds of it I'll stay away from the Behringers, they'll probably turn out no better than my iMac's speakers Best bet I guess is to go to a shop and check some monitors out, I know a good music shop near me that has a huge selection of them.

Thanks for the other answers. So is balanced the best? If so, why not just use balanced? What's the point in unbalanced?
#10
Pretty much all pro audio gear will be balanced. All mic cables and TRS cables are. Balanced cables just get less noise, unbalanced is used in some synths and guitars, mainly because they are amplified and the level of noise the cables will pick up is usually pretty low, so balanced cables wouldnt really help. They also need a differential amplifier to work, where unbalanced dont.
#12
Quote by JackMorris
For recording guitar at the moment, I'm running my guitar striaght in to the guitar input on my interface (a Tascam 122mkii). I'm then using the amp sim on Logic. Although this sounds alright, would I get drastically better results from micing up my amp? I'm think of getting an SM57, just wondering if it would really be a worthwhile investment.


It really depends on your signal chain. I do direct guitar recording since most of the time when I record, its 2 am and I live in a condo. One thing I've found that helps me is that I've got a Tube Preamp (The Presonus Tube Pre) and a compressor (dbx 266XL) which help warm and thicken the sound of the guitar before it hits my Amp Sim (Line 6 Pod Farm 2). I've achieved better results from this than plugging it straight into my Mbox.

When it comes to micing your amp and it being better, it depends on your amp and speakers. If you're micing a cheap amp with bad speakers, its chances of sounding good aren't quite as good as going direct into a sim. If you've got a good amp with some good speakers, no amp sim will compare to it.
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