#1
I just got this amp about a week ago, it sounds good but it could probably sound a bit better. Do you think a different brand of tubes can change or better the sound at all? Which brand EL84s do you guys recommend?
#2
I'm not too knowledgeable on tubes, but I do know the stock tubes in Bugeras are crap. You'll probably be able to get a better sound by retubing.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#3
Quote by Kanthras
I'm not too knowledgeable on tubes, but I do know the stock tubes in Bugeras are crap. You'll probably be able to get a better sound by retubing.

What exactly makes them crap? The fact that Bugera has a strict-as-hell quality inspection policy on their tubes and only qualify about 5% of all the tubes they test to be used in production, or something else? So far, nothing I'm not satisfied with my 6262-212.

Also, as for the original question, if you have a good ear, you'll be able to hear a difference between different manufacturers. Whether it's for the better or not is all up to you.
Gear:

Guitars: Ibanez SV5470F, Ibanez Xpt700, Fender MIM Standard Stratocaster ('04-'05), Jackson Ps-2
Ashton AG200,
Amps: ENGL E530, Bugera 6262-212,
FX: TC Electronics G-major 2, Behringer EQ700, Morley Volume / Wah
#4
Quote by The^Unforgiven
What exactly makes them crap? The fact that Bugera has a strict-as-hell quality inspection policy on their tubes and only qualify about 5% of all the tubes they test to be used in production, or something else? So far, nothing I'm not satisfied with my 6262-212.

The fact that they often crap out. Nothing more, nothing less.

edit: Also the fact that most people think their sound quality is not very good. Subjective of course, but still..
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
Last edited by Kanthras at May 20, 2010,
#5
You can't go wrong with JJ's
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#6
Quote by Cathbard
You can't go wrong with JJ's


Thanks for the suggestion...should I retube everything or just the power tubes?
#8
Quote by The^Unforgiven
What exactly makes them crap? The fact that Bugera has a strict-as-hell quality inspection policy on their tubes and only qualify about 5% of all the tubes they test to be used in production

I call complete BS. I've got a mate who works in a store in Melbourne and he says a crapload of them come back in the first few weeks after leaving the store needing new tubes.
Hardly strict, they probably just pass them if they work.

EDIT: Think about it for two seconds. They only use 5% of the tubes they make/buy(I don't know where they get their tubes from.)? That would cripple them finanically not to mention if this was true and they were throwing out 95% of the tubes they're either making or buying don't you think they'd stop and go... "Hang on... these tubes are shit and we're losing money because of it."

EDIT:
Quote by burritosaregood
Thanks for the suggestion...should I retube everything or just the power tubes?

I'd go for the lot. How much are you looking to spend?
Last edited by consecutive e at May 20, 2010,
#9
Quote by Kanthras
The fact that they often crap out. Nothing more, nothing less.

edit: Also the fact that most people think their sound quality is not very good. Subjective of course, but still..

Of course it's subjective. But I've come to understand that it's not actually the tube's fault, but faults with the amp itself, something that causes the tubes to break down. I don't know if that's possible, but that's the picture I get.

Personally, I've been happy for 6 month with my Bugera - nothing wrong with it, and it's taken quite the abuse during the time I've had it. Of course, some of the earöier production models crap out easily - the company's new, the products are new. It happens. Back when Playstation 2 first came out, a great shitload of them were duds.
Gear:

Guitars: Ibanez SV5470F, Ibanez Xpt700, Fender MIM Standard Stratocaster ('04-'05), Jackson Ps-2
Ashton AG200,
Amps: ENGL E530, Bugera 6262-212,
FX: TC Electronics G-major 2, Behringer EQ700, Morley Volume / Wah
#10
Quote by consecutive e
I call complete BS. I've got a mate who works in a store in Melbourne and he says a crapload of them come back in the first few weeks after leaving the store needing new tubes.
Hardly strict, they probably just pass them if they work.

EDIT: Think about it for two seconds. They only use 5% of the tubes they make/buy(I don't know where they get their tubes from.)? That would cripple them finanically not to mention if this was true and they were throwing out 95% of the tubes they're either making or buying don't you think they'd stop and go... "Hang on... these tubes are shit and we're losing money because of it."

EDIT:

I'd go for the lot. How much are you looking to spend?


What's reasonable? I mean the JJ tubes don't look expensive at all.
#11
Quote by burritosaregood
What's reasonable? I mean the JJ tubes don't look expensive at all.

I'm not too sure on US prices. A quick ebay job makes me guess you'll spend about $50ish on tubes if you change out the preamp ones as well. People pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars for NOS tubes but I doubt you want to do that?
Are you going to do the work yourself or take it to a tech? Honestly I don't know how hard it would be, do Bugeras have an adjustable bias?
#12
Quote by consecutive e
I'm not too sure on US prices. A quick ebay job makes me guess you'll spend about $50ish on tubes if you change out the preamp ones as well. People pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars for NOS tubes but I doubt you want to do that?
Are you going to do the work yourself or take it to a tech? Honestly I don't know how hard it would be, do Bugeras have an adjustable bias?


It's a class A amp man..so I really don't think it needs to be biased. My guitar teacher repairs tube amps and does mods...I watch him do it from time to time. Changing out tubes is cake compared to messing with circuitry, so I could probably handle it. Although...Bugera could have made the tubes a bit more accessible..there is a metal casing bay around the tubes. I'd probably need to remove that and pop the tubes out.
#13
Quote by burritosaregood
It's a class A amp man..so I really don't think it needs to be biased. My guitar teacher repairs tube amps and does mods...I watch him do it from time to time. Changing out tubes is cake compared to messing with circuitry, so I could probably handle it. Although...Bugera could have made the tubes a bit more accessible..there is a metal casing bay around the tubes. I'd probably need to remove that and pop the tubes out.

Shows how much I know lol. Why not ask your teacher to have a look at it, he might be able to reccomend some tubes that complient the amp really well.
#14
Quote by The^Unforgiven
Of course it's subjective. But I've come to understand that it's not actually the tube's fault, but faults with the amp itself, something that causes the tubes to break down. I don't know if that's possible, but that's the picture I get.

Personally, I've been happy for 6 month with my Bugera - nothing wrong with it, and it's taken quite the abuse during the time I've had it. Of course, some of the earöier production models crap out easily - the company's new, the products are new. It happens. Back when Playstation 2 first came out, a great shitload of them were duds.

Then you're lucky you got one with tubes that aren't faulty. And if you're going to claim it's the amps that are killing tubes, you might wanna have something to back it up...

It sounds highly unlikely to me, because when they're retubed the tubes don't crap out prematurely.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#15
correct me of i am wrong, but if you put the same type of tubes in an amp that they were deisnged for, nomatter the company the tubes will work without biasing? right?

its only when you change tube type that you need to re-bias?
#16
Quote by consecutive e
Shows how much I know lol. Why not ask your teacher to have a look at it, he might be able to reccomend some tubes that complient the amp really well.


I'm gonna go with the JJs...lol my teacher doesn't really like my amp much nor Vox or Matchless. He really is a Fender dude when it comes to amps.
#17
Quote by ikey_
correct me of i am wrong, but if you put the same type of tubes in an amp that they were deisnged for, nomatter the company the tubes will work without biasing? right?

its only when you change tube type that you need to re-bias?

In a perfect world, maybe.

Every tube is a little bit different, so if you want to have your amp biased right you'll have to rebias. In most cases, it shouldn't be a big deal though. Your tubes will just be a bit too hot or cold.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#18
well isnt that what makes them all sound different?

your telling me everybody in the world with a tube amp knows how to rebias them? how do you do it?
#19
Quote by The^Unforgiven
Of course it's subjective. But I've come to understand that it's not actually the tube's fault, but faults with the amp itself, something that causes the tubes to break down. I don't know if that's possible, but that's the picture I get.

Personally, I've been happy for 6 month with my Bugera - nothing wrong with it, and it's taken quite the abuse during the time I've had it. Of course, some of the earöier production models crap out easily - the company's new, the products are new. It happens. Back when Playstation 2 first came out, a great shitload of them were duds.


at the end of the day only a few places till make tubes. The best ones get bought up first and cost the most. Bugera might have a 5 percent tolerance but if that tolerance only extends to tubes that meet 80 percent of spec that doesn't really mean that much.

New tubes just aren't as good as old tubes. They are getting better though. The tubes that come in new tiny terrors, ad5s, etc etc. No good. Night Train? No good. Etc etc.

A set of really good tubes makes all the difference in the world.

back on topic..

TS - I wouldn't change the channel 2 12ax7 from reading Bugera's description. I don't know what kind of magic they have wired to that circuit.

For new production grab 2 jjecc83s, jjecc803s, eh 12ax7, sovtek 12ax7lps. For the power stage, I find jj's way too bright but 4 matches jjel84s will do the trick. Though there are lots of nos el84s floating around.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#20
wouldn't a speaker swap make a bigger difference?

nothing wrong with a re-tube but i think the biggest skimp point is the speaker. replacing the speaker would likely give you more bang for the buck. just my .o2
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#21
Quote by gregs1020
wouldn't a speaker swap make a bigger difference?

nothing wrong with a re-tube but i think the biggest skimp point is the speaker. replacing the speaker would likely give you more bang for the buck. just my .o2

+1 You'll replace the tubes either way, eventually. You may as well get a little life out of them first.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#22
Quote by tubetime86
+1 You'll replace the tubes either way, eventually. You may as well get a little life out of them first.


The speakers I have are stock Bugera...two mismatched 12s. One is 80w and the other is 100w I believe. Which speakers would work within this amp and how much would I be looking to spend?
#23
Quote by tubetime86
+1 You'll replace the tubes either way, eventually. You may as well get a little life out of them first.

You don't have to throw the tubes in the dump.. you can keep them as spares.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#25
Quote by burritosaregood
It's a class A amp man..so I really don't think it needs to be biased. My guitar teacher repairs tube amps and does mods...I watch him do it from time to time. Changing out tubes is cake compared to messing with circuitry, so I could probably handle it. Although...Bugera could have made the tubes a bit more accessible..there is a metal casing bay around the tubes. I'd probably need to remove that and pop the tubes out.

they claim it's class A... but 30w with four el84's... it's class AB push-pull. same deal as the vox AC30.

their description sounds just like an AC30. is it?
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#26
Quote by Kanthras
You don't have to throw the tubes in the dump.. you can keep them as spares.

Well I know, but if you're replacing them because they suck then you probably won't ever use them again except, as you said, as spares. My point was just that eventually he will upgrade tubes either way... So if he does a speaker swap now, that should be enough improvement to keep him happy a few months, then he can do the tube swap.

Quote by burritosaregood
What would be some good speakers to put in this amp? How much would I be looking to spend?

That's an AC30 clone right? If so the best option would be some alnico blues or golds or clones of them... That's the industry standard for AC30 speakers, but they're pretty expensive.

If you want some more suggestions on speaker you'll probably need to give some more info on what you expect out of a speaker. Its all preference.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Last edited by tubetime86 at May 21, 2010,
#27
Quote by tubetime86
Well I know, but if you're replacing them because they suck then you probably won't ever use them again except, as you said, as spares. My point was just that eventually he will upgrade tubes either way... So if he does a speaker swap now, that should be enough improvement to keep him happy a few months, then he can do the tube swap.


That's an AC30 clone right? If so the best option would be some alnico blues or golds or clones of them... That's the industry standard for AC30 speakers, but they're pretty expensive.

If you want some more suggestions on speaker you'll probably need to give some more info on what you expect out of a speaker. Its all preference.


I really don't know what to expect from a speaker at all. Personally, I have little experience with what I would consider professional level tube amps. I have used crappy solid state guitar amps my whole life. This is the first and only legitimate tube amp that I have owned. I just hope it was the right choice.

In my ignorance, I really didn't think speakers made THAT much of a difference...in retrospect, that is pretty stupid though. The current speakers I have are two mismatched Bugera 12's...one is 80watt while the other is 100watt. I don't know what that is supposed to do actually. As far as Alnico's..should I be getting the same wattage? And how much cheaper are the clones, where can I get them etc?

I should really do a video or something of this amp to give you guys a good idea of what it sounds like and as to whether or not I should keep it and invest in better tubes, better speakers.

Then again..I'm probably going to keep this amp anyway. Because, I'll be selling all of my DJ gear soon and should get a good 1200$ from that. In that event I might attempt to find a cheap used Fender Pro Reverb and get a good pedal distortion. See which one I prefer at that point, and if I prefer the Fender with the distortion pedal, sell the Bugera BC30. If I actually prefer the BC30..I'll just keep them both..the Fender for cleans and the Bugera for distortion.

But...back to the speaker question. How much of a difference in sound would alnicos produce...or another upgrade speaker?
#28
Speaker first, then valves - all of them and keep the old ones for spares in your gig bag. You want the combined speaker wattage to be in excess of 60W. Bigger than that is fine but don't go less.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#29
Quote by Cathbard
Speaker first, then valves - all of them and keep the old ones for spares in your gig bag. You want the combined speaker wattage to be in excess of 60W. Bigger than that is fine but don't go less.


Alnico blues only come in 15w? That would be a combined wattage of 30w..I know for certain people use two alnico blues in their ac30s, so I can't see how it wouldn't work out in my bc30?
#30
They'll work but if you crank it you could end up with a voice coil embedded in the wall. A 30W valve amp cranks a lot more than 30W once you get the output distorting. 30W is just what it will produce before clipping
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band