#1
So I’m getting decent at guitar and want to experiment a lot with my tone and trying to re create the tone of band I like. I have a bunch of pedals I really like and will stick with but my problem is that I have a digital Fender practice amp, so I cant accurately experiment and nail in the tones I want because I’m not using a Tube amp. So I’ve been wanting to get an all tube amp but have a few question. Eventually I’d like to be in a band so do I need to get a full stack set up then? Or just an amp head and a speaker? Is 100W too much or enough for any usual outdoor performance? This one is one I’d like to get if I could get the cash, http://www.guitarcenter.com/Marshall-MA100H-and-MA412-Full-Stack-423545-i1515531.gc. Although this is more realistically what I could get now if I wanted although it’s only 15w so would that not work? http://www.guitarcenter.com/Marshall-Haze-MHZ15-Full-Stack-869877-i1445509.gc
#3
^_ this is why I’m asking, I don’t really know these things and don’t wanna blow money on shit I don’t need. I don’t know a lot about stacks to know what’s really good or bad, I just have always seen and like Marshall stacks so I don’t really know what line of them is good/bad. I play a variety of stuff, metal, grunge, classic rock, alternative, country, 80’s rock. Bands I’m going for is Metallica, Zeppelin, Nirvana, The Killers, Blink 182, Oasis, Foo Fighters, Clapton, etc… bands like that.
#4
30 watt combo is all you need.
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BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#5
Marshall MA's are crap.

There are plenty of used Marshall heads on the market for under $1500 that are much better amps.
1979 Gibson Les Paul Silverburst
James Tyler Variax JTV89
Schecter C1 Classic
Ibanez RG520QS
Greg Bennett Torino TR4

Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier
GSP1101 & Pod X3 Pro
Peavey 5150 & JSX
Bugera 6262 & 333XL
Carvin V3
Spider Valve HD100
#6
An outdoor gig is going to require the ability to move some serious air unless you are micing the amps. A 50-watt tube head and a good (read: efficient) cabinet should serve you well. You have to consider a few things first, though: What are the other people in your band playing through? If you have another guitarist with a 100-watt tube halfstack or a bassist with a 1000-watt amp and an 8x10 cabinet, you will need to be able to compete with them or get drowned out. How loud is your drummer? How loud do you normally play?

The Marshall MA amplifiers sound a lot better when they are paired with the usual Marshall 1960 4x12 cabinet than they do with the MA cabinet. The demo video on Marshall's website has the guitarist playing through just such a setup, so even they know how much of a difference a good cabinet makes.

Unless you are playing a festival and you are not micing the amps, you will not require a full stack and a 50 or 100-watt tube amplifier. That's not to say you couldn't use such a setup and enjoy it.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#7
Thanks a lot for the info so far guy’s, it’s really helping me out, what I eventually get is what I’ll have for a LONG time so I want to make sure I get it right the first time since I wont have the cash to get something else for a while.

Just an fyi for me, when you say “micing the amp” what exactly does that mean? I know it’s n00b but I’m still learning.
Last edited by srh at May 26, 2010,
#8
Micing the amp is when the soundguy puts a microphone infront of your guitar amp's speakers and feeds that into the mixer and then the PA system. This means that If you have a quiet amp, the signal can be fed through the PA system, allowing the sound guy to turn the volume up louder than the amp would be on it's own. Eliminating the need for a huge powerfull amp.

In all seriousness nobody needs a 100 watt full stack.. Infact personally I think they're extremely cheesy.

Most small to medium sized venues will only require you to have a 30watt combo, when you get to medium sized venues, most of them will have a PA system and they will be able to mic your amp for you. If you are playing on a proper organised stage outside, the chances are it'll be profesionally set up and again they will be able to mic your amp for you.
In my opinion 40/50 watts is the perfect amount for an amp. But remember that the wattage isn't actually a difinitive answer for how loud an amp will be.

Also, don't buy a Marshall MA or a Marshall Haze, they both sound bad.

If I were you I'd get a Peavey classic 30/50.
A fender Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville.
A used old Marshall JCM.

You could look at Randalls and Laneys.

Don't be fooled by hybrid amps that have power amp valves but digital pre amps, they're not actually proper valve amps.
"In modern music, a lot of people are really stuck on the example, asif it were the idea. It takes millions of examples to articulate an idea, so don't get stuck on the f*cking example." - Joshua Homme, 2008.
#9
I'm actually in a similar situation as the guy asking for help.. i know i guy at carvin who can get me some good deals. he says that a 50 watt head and a 2x12 cab will be great. he said tube combos have tube rattling problems.. also is there any reason to get a 2x12 combo vs a 1x12 combo?
#10
Well my opinions would be:

1) A 30-50w tube 112 or 212 combo will be plenty for any gig you ever play. I would LOVE to hear the ridiculous situation you could come up with where it wouldn't be.

2) Lots of venues (ESPECIALLY outdoor venues) have PA system that you'll be running through.

3) PA systems are not just used to compensate for amps/drums that can't get loud enough. Most smaller venues I play also have systems for the purpose of balancing out levels/EQ throughout the venue (an amp sounds very different right in front of it than it does 10 feet to the side, etc)

4) Virtually any outdoor gig will have a PA, and if you bring your own mic, there's no reason you can't plug in. Why? Because they have to amplify the vocals... and I don't see too many 1 channel mixers nowadays, so there'll be a spot for you.

5) Tube combos are fine - don't worry about rattling. It's true that being in the amp cab behind the speakers is sort of abusing the tubes, but it's nothing to fret about. People have been doing it for years, and it's still very popular.
#11
Quote by FuzzLove

In all seriousness nobody needs a 100 watt full stack.. Infact personally I think they're extremely cheesy.

While I agree with you on the volume requirement being a non-issue where PAs are available, 100W amps still have a place, though you don't necessarily have to run them as a full stack.

100W Marshalls sound different than their 50W counterparts in ways that are not correctable short of changing the circuit.

Likewise, a 30W JTM sounds different than a 50W 1987, even if you hot-rod it so all other factors - tubes, rectifier, gain stages - are equal.

So, saying that a 100W amp is useless is a bit of a leap, but most definitely nobody needs it for the power these days. It should be a decision based purely on frequency response and touch sensitivity.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#12
This is not just about raw power or raw wattage. You can run a 60 watts combo much louder than a 100 watt half stack, or get the same SPL with both. You may also want to consider the tonal quality difference between the sonic spreading of a 1X12 or a 2X12 open back combo or the fullness, tightness and (sometimes irritating) directionality of a 4X12 cab.
#13
ok first off more speakers = more body
I have played large gig with a fender 65fm and it had not when past 6 on the master.
If your looking at the marshall ma I would get the 50 watt 1 12 cause it is small and it is loud enough to gig with. Trust me once you play about 3 gets with something heavy you will end up hating it. Just remember you can buy distortion pedals but you can't buy a clean pedal. Yes it is sound stupid but don't buy and amp that you don't love the clean on unless you don't use a clean.

hope I helped
and
God bless
#14
Quote by adam L(guitar)
ok first off more speakers = more body
I have played large gig with a fender 65fm and it had not when past 6 on the master.
If your looking at the marshall ma I would get the 50 watt 1 12 cause it is small and it is loud enough to gig with. Trust me once you play about 3 gets with something heavy you will end up hating it. Just remember you can buy distortion pedals but you can't buy a clean pedal. Yes it is sound stupid but don't buy and amp that you don't love the clean on unless you don't use a clean.

hope I helped
and
God bless


Ok im sorry, but past your first statement your post made no sense. But what everyone is saying, if he sacrifices his 4x12 for a combo, he can get a much better amp than the ma for 1500.

TS if your stuck on marshall, look fo a jcm 800/900 combo. Also a DSL 2000 is a mid priced combo. Also look out for a mesa f-30 or f-50, i think those may be perfect for you.
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#15
YOU DO NOT NEED A STACK TO PLAY LIVE.

Or a halfstack.

A combo is, in fact, totally adequate I'm also a big fan of the head+2x12 setup.
I guess this is technically a quarter stack, but that's a crappy name.

(Do you have any idea what a pain it is lugging a full stack to gigs? Gets old real fast, and you get pretty damn sore. )

Sounds like you want something versatile. A Mesa Mark IV is ideal . These can be picked up used for 1000 if you try hard. There is also a combo that I've seen go as low as 750.

If you do not want this fantastic amp, there are other options:

Versatility:
Carvin V3
Peavey JSX
Marshall JVM

Other Amps you should look at:

Peavey XXX
Peavey 5150II/6505+
Peavey Ultra Plus
Laney AOR
Laney VC30
Jet City JCA100H
Marshall JCM800, 900, or 2000 DSL
#16
Quote by ChucklesMginty
Sorry, my bad. We get a lot of people round here who want to buy really rubbish stacks so they'll look cool on stage. When they're only playing in pubs or in their bedroom.

Marshall JCM 900


i have a 900 4501, with an eq pedal its, like, another amp, to start with i was pleased with it, got a MXR 10 band eq, now im in love with it.
#17
Used Marshall heads? A JCM 900 4500 (50watt split channel) or a JCM2000 DSL50 (50watt 2 channel) with a 2x12 cab would serve you well, on bigger gigs you may be able to use someone elses 4x12 cab to move more air.
#18
don't worry about if the amp is a 1x12 or whatever, if you find an amp you like, and its not like practice amp size, then go for it. i would suggest the peavey 3120 if you're mainly playing the more modern bands out of those you listed. if you look on craigslist, you could probably get a good deal on a marshall JCM 2000, 800, or 900, which would all be good for what you're doing
periphery/bulb!

gear:
Ibanez RG7321 w/ D-sonic in bridge

Peavey 5150 mk ii & b52 4x12 cab

line 6 podxt for recording

Quote by AsOneIStand
Head and Cab for $130? You don't need a head and cabinet, you need a psychological examination.
#19
I did a couple outdoor gigs with my mesa F-100 and barely took the volume above 9'o'clock, I think that was the 60watt setting too.

100 tube amps are ridiculously over-powered... I can go perfectly clean at painfully high volume, I don't know why they make so many 100watt amps really.
#20
^ Because nothing else sounds like a 100W amp but a 100W amp.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.