#1
Hi. I think the following chord prog. C7 - F7 - C7 - Gm can be defined in a few ways,
but I got a bit confused so I'd appreciate your input on this.

1. One could think on 2 major scales: Bb and F major scales

Bb C D Eb F G A and F G A Bb C D Eb

Then we could see C7 and F7 as 5chords, thus dom7th chords in each scale
Plus the Gm being minor chords on both scales
So we could think that the chord progression 'modulates' from one scale to the other

But I think it's a 'Diatonic' perception

2. Thinking more 'Blues minded'

Can I see it as a C major scale and I-IV-v ? Although 5 chords are normally
major chords with flat7ths, it should be V7 ? and Blues are normally viewed
from a minor perspective, right?
#2
I'd be inclined to go with #2.

As in blues progressions, the I and IV can be dom 7 chords; and the Gm can be a bit of modal interchange from (ie. it's been nicked from) Mixolydian. The whole progression isn't perfectly Mixolydian due to the Eb in the F7.
#3
Quote by blue_strat
I'd be inclined to go with #2.
As in blues progressions, the I and IV can be dom 7 chords; and the Gm can be a bit of modal interchange from (ie. it's been nicked from) Mixolydian. The whole progression isn't perfectly Mixolydian due to the Eb in the F7.


Thanx blue_strat :-) , yes many friends I asked about it think #2, eg Blues minded is the way to go. I'm new to blues 'theory' and if I think in traditional diatonic way I realized that everything looks 'wrong', but I'm discovering that Blues and Jazz go beyond traditional 'theory', eg: they like to break rules and I think that's way they get different sounds ...
#4
Sounds a lot like F major to me. The Gm and C7 are diatonic, and the F7 does that blues thing where it adds the b7 onto major chord, or the jazz thing where it alters/modifies chords to build tension and "suspend" the resolution, depending on how you look at it. Without any more context it could be either the blues thing or the jazz thing.

Then again, with more context, it could turn out to be in a different key altogether.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#5
Part of me wants to say blues but what food1010 makes a ton of sense and is quite logical.

Try soloing over it and see what key works the best...that might pin it down a little bit better.
#6
First of all, there's no Eb in the F major scale, it's an E natural, and it wouldn't be in F because it doesn't resolve anywhere in the progression to it, and it certiantly isn't in Bb because there was never a Bb chord used. It certainly is in C because of like you pointed out it's clearly a I - IV - I - V progression. The Gm is what is causing all the confusion.

Is this a progression from an actual song, or something you wrote? Because to me this doesn't make any sense. When you add an accidental to a chord, it's usual function is a passing tone. The only reason I can see a Gm being used is to avoid the dissonance from going from the B in G major back to the tonic C7 chord with a C and Bb (a semitone in each direction).
#7
Quote by Wiegenlied
First of all, there's no Eb in the F major scale, it's an E natural, and it wouldn't be in F because it doesn't resolve anywhere in the progression to it, and it certiantly isn't in Bb because there was never a Bb chord used. It certainly is in C because of like you pointed out it's clearly a I - IV - I - V progression. The Gm is what is causing all the confusion.
I IV I V is a bit different than I7 IV7 I7 v. If it were C F C G, of course it would be C major.

Of course it's not diatonic. It uses both a B and a Bb, as well as an E and an Eb.

Quote by Wiegenlied
Is this a progression from an actual song, or something you wrote? Because to me this doesn't make any sense.
It actually makes a lot of sense. There are just one or two chromatic alterations.

Quote by Wiegenlied
When you add an accidental to a chord, it's usual function is a passing tone.
Not necessarily. Much of the time, a non-diatonic chord has no such function.

Quote by Wiegenlied
The only reason I can see a Gm being used is to avoid the dissonance from going from the B in G major back to the tonic C7 chord with a C and Bb (a semitone in each direction).
Possibly. Another reason would be that it's in the key of F

Seriously though, I played it, and it sounds great resolved on the F. ii I isn't really a strong resolution, but I think that's why it's effective.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#8
^ I meant it didn't make sense why you would want to make those alterations. Theory can be used to make sense out of anything, even the most obscure pieces.
#9
Quote by Wiegenlied
^ I meant it didn't make sense why you would want to make those alterations. Theory can be used to make sense out of anything, even the most obscure pieces.
Well in the key of F, there's only one alteration, and that's to destabilize the tonic. Makes perfect sense to me.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#10
The food1010 thinking also makes sense ... with F major as the key we will have less alterations to make than if we consider the C major route. In Cmaj we'll have to alter E to Eb and B to Bb, but in Fmaj we just alter E to Eb because Bb is natural in Fmaj key ... but of course, just because we alter less notes doesn't imply to be the correct one ... actually I'm not sure if we can say that there is a correct one ... it may depend on the full song context ... I don't have this progression as a full song, but just as a small chord prog. Please download it from the following url and see what you think.

Normally Blues songs are I - IV - V , but this prog. doesn't sound very bluesy I guess.

url: http://www.2shared.com/audio/8dYGfkBH/C7-F7-C7-Gm.html