#1
A salesman told me this "I think Greenbacks will work a little nicer than V30's with the HT-5H because they are 25watt as opposed to the 30watt V30's and the HT-5 will be
able to drive them a bit harder and therefore sound better." He then offered me a Hughes and Kettner CC-212 cab with Greenbacks at a very very good price (like just under half retail if i bought the HT-5 as well).

First of all bullshi!t or not? Secondly, I am plannig on playing rock/punk/metal, are V30's the better choice over greenbacks?
#2
I wouldn't use greenbacks for metal but thats me. If you like speaker distortion then yes it would be better.
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#3
Pushed speakers sound great imo, but it isn't something everybody likes.

V30s are generally thought of as more of a metal speaker than Greenbacks, but at that price grab that cab, sell the greenbacks and buy v30s and put them in the cab.
#4
which greenbacks? speaker distortion is nice. I think they sound better then v30s. It's up to you.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#5
Well pushing a speaker harder does sound better (to a point) but that doesn't mean they'll sound better than the v30's. V30's are the staple of metal music. Greenbacks, not quite so much but that doesn't mean they won't work.
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#6
Well I am not a metal head, just lean on the heavier side of things with regard to music. However, I do see the V30's are the industry standard in metal.

So maybe rephrase the question a little, for about AU$300 more I can get one the best made cabs around being the Hughes and Kettner CC-212 with Greenbacks (don't know which one) or save some cash and get the Harley Benton G212 Vintage loaded with V30's. Pairing it with Blackstar HT-5H for the bedroom to play classic rock, punk and metal.
#7
Greenbacks are more vintage, though V30's are too (the V standing for vintage). I've heard the new V30's don't sound as good as the actual vintage ones. And as far as pushing them, thats not really where you get a good sound. You want to push your amp head, especially if you've got tubes (for distortion of course), but pushing speakers too much can make them blow (you can blow a head too, but not usually by pushing it too hard, unless it overheats.) If you're looking for a bargain and your on a tight budget probably take the deal, if not, its up to you.
#8
I personally would go for the Greenbacks.

but if you are wanting to get the speakers distorting then greenbacks are amazing for that, but from what i know thats more of a rock sort of tone, and doesnt work to well for metal.

I've got greenback clones in my cab and they are great for the music i play, but they might not suit you...... so try both cabs see which you like better
#9
v30s are 60 watts. i'd be wary of anything the salesperson told you if he told you v30s were 30 watts.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#11
I see his point that some people like the Greenbacks for the break-up, desirable for classic rock and British rock sounds.

While pondering the deal I was thinking about how much does the manafacturer influence the sound of a cab, or more precisely how can they justify the pricing? For the same speakers in a box of plywood, the price varies a lot and it seems to be the brands with the good/expensive amp heads also have the most expensive cabs. Is this purely marketing based on peoples desire to have Mesa/Marshall on the front of their gear, or are these cabs really twice as good as other brands with the exact same speakers and same wood etc?

Good example, http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm over 3 times cheaper than http://www.thomann.de/gb/engl_e212vh_gitarrenbox.htm, which is still cheaper than the Mesa and same price as Orange, Marshall and Hughes. Granted this is an extreme comparison, but even the Mesa is double the price of the Marshall...
Last edited by Effecient at May 31, 2010,
#12
Quote by Danjo's Guitar
Greenbacks are more vintage, though V30's are too (the V standing for vintage). I've heard the new V30's don't sound as good as the actual vintage ones. And as far as pushing them, thats not really where you get a good sound. You want to push your amp head, especially if you've got tubes (for distortion of course), but pushing speakers too much can make them blow (you can blow a head too, but not usually by pushing it too hard, unless it overheats.) If you're looking for a bargain and your on a tight budget probably take the deal, if not, its up to you.
There are not really any "vintage" vintage 30s because they are not a vintage speaker nor are they a vintage sounding speaker.
#13
I would go with the Greenbacks.
Your 5 watt amp's single power tube will distort before the two 25 watt speakers will.
V30's are nice, I use them with my HT-5, but they will sound colder than the Greenbacks and will take forever to break in if that's the only amp being played through them.
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#14
Quote by Effecient
I see his point that some people like the Greenbacks for the break-up, desirable for classic rock and British rock sounds.

While pondering the deal I was thinking about how much does the manafacturer influence the sound of a cab, or more precisely how can they justify the pricing? For the same speakers in a box of plywood, the price varies a lot and it seems to be the brands with the good/expensive amp heads also have the most expensive cabs. Is this purely marketing based on peoples desire to have Mesa/Marshall on the front of their gear, or are these cabs really twice as good as other brands with the exact same speakers and same wood etc?

Good example, http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm over 3 times cheaper than http://www.thomann.de/gb/engl_e212vh_gitarrenbox.htm, which is still cheaper than the Mesa and same price as Orange, Marshall and Hughes. Granted this is an extreme comparison, but even the Mesa is double the price of the Marshall...


Cabs don't really get that expensive at all. Very few cabs end up costing more then 1000 loaded.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#15
Quote by al112987
There are not really any "vintage" vintage 30s because they are not a vintage speaker nor are they a vintage sounding speaker.


he may be talking about british made V30's, they are made in china now but did have some made in england.

v30s are 60 watts. i'd be wary of anything the salesperson told you if he told you v30s were 30 watts.


yes, this is bad from a trust stand point. advice like what dave is talking about makes me discredit whoever is giving me the advice. i'd take this saleperson's advice on speaker's like i'd take my parents advice about sex.

Well pushing a speaker harder does sound better (to a point)

that is pure opinion. i actually like speaker breakup for particular applications, and not so much for others.

the truth is, speakers use parts that bend and flex because a speaker needs to move back and forth to make a sound. the thinner and looser the parts, the more responsive the sound. the more stiff and thicker parts provide a basis for higher wattage handling. a speaker that is driven is starting to operate on the fringes of it's nominal ratings. imo alnico speakers sound much better when driven, i usually get my ceramic speakers with quite a bit of headroom as i feel they get 'barky' at high volumes. btw, this is not a complete description of what makes speaker higher or lower power rating (magnet strength and size as well as heat dissipation have much to do with things too)

you will have to find for yourself what kinda 'flavor' of speaker you like, many people playing metal opt not to have any speaker distortion in the rig as it tends to 'muddy' their signal. classic rock and blues likes speaker distortion more.

now, as far as application here. that HT-5 is not going to push either of those speakers into distortion. 5 watts is only a fraction of the power those speakers can handle, so breakup desire is a moot point in this discussion. the V30 has more pronounced mids that can be described as [a bit too] brilliant. the greenback has a more 'woody' mids sound and can get a downright rude sound. also, the V30 handles a good amount of distortion while the G12M will take a bit of distortion and make it sound bigger.
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Last edited by gumbilicious at May 31, 2010,
#16
Quote by gumbilicious

yes, this is bad from a trust stand point. advice like what dave is talking about makes me discredit whoever is giving me the advice.


yeah. obviously it's not perfect, you can be wrong on some things and right on others etc., but if someone tells you something which you know to be wrong, it does make you wonder how accurate the stuff they're telling you which you don't know is. it's certainly a "don't believe until corroborated by another more trusted source" kind of thing.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah. obviously it's not perfect, you can be wrong on some things and right on others etc., but if someone tells you something which you know to be wrong, it does make you wonder how accurate the stuff they're telling you which you don't know is. it's certainly a "don't believe until corroborated by another more trusted source" kind of thing.


yes, true. i would distrust him more from a 'what else does he think he know is true' standpoint. i def wouldn't waste my time trying to parse the info he gives me to see if it's right though.
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#18
aye
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?