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#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm

More than 10 people have been killed after Israeli commandos stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army says.

Armed forces boarded the largest vessel overnight, clashing with some of the 500 people on board.

It happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters.

Israel says its soldiers were shot at and attacked with weapons; the activists say Israeli troops came on board shooting.

There has been widespread condemnation of the violence, while the European Union has called for an inquiry to establish what happened.


Bravo Israel, Bravo! You got those aid worker mother****ers!

So, how long before a coalition topples Bibi's government as a rogue state?
Last edited by gabcd86 at May 31, 2010,
#2
It won't, because they'll plead the Holocaust, and for some reason it'll be viewed as a valid justification for their apartheid-treatment of Palestinians and the dead children.
#3
Israel doing something screwed up? Didn't see tha-

Poster has been detained by US government for suspected terrorism.
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#4
Benji is meeting Obama tomorrow, he seems much less pro israeli then Bush so hopefully he'll lay down some black attitude on that bitch.
#6
why is this on ultimate-guitar.com?
go cry 'bout all this crap somewhere else ..
#7
Quote by rhn94
why is this on ultimate-guitar.com?
go cry 'bout all this crap somewhere else ..


This is the pit, where we can discuss off-topic things. So that's why it's here.
#9
Seems strange, Israels current government seems to be ****ing up a lot lately.
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#10
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
The convoy could have gotten in through official channels. It didn't.


Go Israel!


It wasn't allowed, as it would actually help the Palestinians.


Israel's deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said his country "regrets any loss of life and did everything to avoid this outcome". He accused the convoy of a "premeditated and outrageous provocation", describing the flotilla as an "armada of hate".


Armada of Hate?


Whatever these people are on, I want it.
#11
Quote by shmikeyboy
It wasn't allowed, as it would actually help the Palestinians.

Armada of Hate?


Whatever these people are on, I want it.



If they really wanted to help Gaza, they'd have gone to the trouble of submitting to Israeli checks and regulations.

It's like barging into someone's house and then whining because they throw you out.
#12
Quote by TOMMYB22
Seems strange, Israels current government seems to be ****ing up a lot lately.


actually about the army no they are not
the ship was a terrorists ship therefore illegal, gaza is part of Israels territory. just because the government made us leave does not mean that it isnt OUR territory
and if its an illegal shipment its mostly weapons for terror groups
until i have an idea NO SIG!
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#13
Quote by Chaos Inc.
actually about the army no they are not
the ship was a terrorists ship therefore illegal, gaza is part of Israels territory. just because the government made us leave does not mean that it isnt OUR territory
and if its an illegal shipment its mostly weapons for terror groups

Here's one for you. I haven't ever seen any apologists for Israel's defence policies by anyone outside of the US or Israel. Puzzling.
#14
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
If they really wanted to help Gaza, they'd have gone to the trouble of submitting to Israeli checks and regulations.

It's like barging into someone's house and then whining because they throw you out.



Israel always slows down the transaction of aid. It also has a ban on "some" types of aid, because terrorists can use them...including cement and other essential building supplies. In a recent interview with Regev on CNN, the anchorwoman said that tonnes and tonnes of supplies and other forms of aid are left on the border in Israel and haven't been put through.
#15
Quote by spiritcrusher91
Israel always slows down the transaction of aid. It also has a ban on "some" types of aid, because terrorists can use them...including cement and other essential building supplies. In a recent interview with Regev on CNN, the anchorwoman said that tonnes and tonnes of supplies and other forms of aid are left on the border in Israel and haven't been put through.



Which is understandable given what's happened in Israel with stuff like car bombs.
#16
Quote by Chaos Inc.
actually about the army no they are not
the ship was a terrorists ship therefore illegal, gaza is part of Israels territory. just because the government made us leave does not mean that it isnt OUR territory
and if its an illegal shipment its mostly weapons for terror groups



Whether Gaza is your territory or not is something that is still debated on. How do you know that these ships are terrorist ships? If they were, why do you think Greece have suspended their co-op military training with Israel, and why would Sweden have been pissed off about it?

Gaza and West Bank are (under international law) seperate states from Israel...unfortunately, it's more or less an apartheid.
#17
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
If they really wanted to help Gaza, they'd have gone to the trouble of submitting to Israeli checks and regulations.

It's like barging into someone's house and then whining because they throw you out.

Well it's not really their house is it?
It's more like if someone blows up someone else's house, puts barbed wire around it, and then shoots at anyone who tries to deliver cement to the houseless family.

And I would like to see that cement car bomb of yours.
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Last edited by Grönis at May 31, 2010,
#18
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Which is understandable given what's happened in Israel with stuff like car bombs.


There are other methods of controlling this...such as heightening border security. Israel's army is incredibly power and very technologically advanced.

Another reason why I think that such materials should go through are more or less psychological and social (psycho-social? lol, excuse my English)..

Most people in Gaza are not terrorists. They're just people who are trying to get by in life. If they are deprived of those supplies that provide them with the basic material neccesities of life, Hamas will become more powerful, as more people will support them. More peopel will become fanatics and go for extreme actions, as an act of retaliation, aka car bombs.
#19
Quote by spiritcrusher91
There are other methods of controlling this...such as heightening border security. Israel's army is incredibly power and very technologically advanced.

Another reason why I think that such materials should go through are more or less psychological and social (psycho-social? lol, excuse my English)..

Most people in Gaza are not terrorists. They're just people who are trying to get by in life. If they are deprived of those supplies that provide them with the basic material neccesities of life, Hamas will become more powerful, as more people will support them. More peopel will become fanatics and go for extreme actions, as an act of retaliation, aka car bombs.



...which is going to mean Israel is going to be even tougher on them.
#20
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Which is understandable given what's happened in Israel with stuff like car bombs.


I think it's understandable that people want to give aid to Gaza without submitting to a bully's demands, given what's happened in Gaza with stuff like massacres by the Israeli military.
#21
"The activists said they also were carrying hundreds of electric-powered wheelchairs, prefabricated homes and water purifiers."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-tows-gaza-aid-ships-to-ashdod-after-10-activists-killed-in-clashes-with-navy-1.293089

It is my firm belief that these electric-powered wheelchairs are the reason for the Israeli reaction. They could be modified and rebuilt to act as tanks that shoot purified water.
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#23
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
If they really wanted to help Gaza, they'd have gone to the trouble of submitting to Israeli checks and regulations.

It's like barging into someone's house and then whining because they throw you out.


Well not really, because these people got killed, for bringing aid. Improper routes or not, it can't be defended.

Fuuck, Israel, I want to defend your existence, and I do, but you make it so difficult.
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#24
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
The convoy could have gotten in through official channels. It didn't.


Go Israel!


You just applauded the murder of 10 aid workers. Congratulations. According to the UN, Israel lets through just one quarter of the aid that the Gaza strip needs. That's why it went through unofficial channels you pathetic excuse for a human being.
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Last edited by Meths at May 31, 2010,
#25
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
I think it's understandable that people want to give aid to Gaza without submitting to a bully's demands, given what's happened in Gaza with stuff like massacres by the Israeli military.



if it's that big a deal then you'd go through proper channels. It's not hard. Big and well-known organisations such as Operation Christmas Child have no issue submitting to certain regulations of the countries they enter.
#26
I tend to back Israel usually, but they really screwed up on this one.

I'm not defending the convoy, because they knew they'd have to face the Israeli at some point. They attacked the Israeli commandos with axes and knives and blatantly provoked them, as if they wanted the situation to turn into a bloodbath in order to obtain a strong international reaction. I can even bet many of them were willing to die.

But still, Israel is responsible for any civilian casualty since they organized the blockade of Gaza in the first place. 19 dead is an awful lot, and I'm pretty sure there were other options available to prevent the ships from reaching the coast than boarding them.

Another bad move by Israel.
---

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---
#27
Quote by Fassa Albrecht

It's like barging into someone's house and then whining because they throw you out.


Yeah it would have been better if they'd just moved in thrown the previous owners out and called it their own then imprisoned said previous owners, that's much more reasonable.
#28
Quote by spiritcrusher91
Israel always slows down the transaction of aid. It also has a ban on "some" types of aid, because terrorists can use them...including cement and other essential building supplies. In a recent interview with Regev on CNN, the anchorwoman said that tonnes and tonnes of supplies and other forms of aid are left on the border in Israel and haven't been put through.


It's given the threat that a lot of the citizens are under but i just feel that Israel can be too pre-emptive with their defense policies, especially with the governments of recent years
Chelsea FC



Quote by Blues Hippie
As for the swim team member that drowned, it just means the swim team just got a lot better. Same with him too, it's time to move on, the weakest link is gone...
#29
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
...which is going to mean Israel is going to be even tougher on them.


Not neccesarily. The thing is, I don't think it should all be black or white...but grey.

For example, Israel can have secure borders, but it should have exceptions where it should open up, such as humanitarian aid into Gaza. Having secure borders also doesn't mean imprisoning the people of Gaza. You can have secure borders without dealing with anything inside Gaza itself..it's just a matter of making sure what's there doesn't go within Israeli territory. Also, Israeli's border patrol should have equal policies for non-Arab citizens going through borders, because I'm sure most car-bomb situations are based on terrorists crossing the border with fake/illegal passports of other countries. So instead of letting anyone with a European/American passport go through with ease, they should have equal searching policies, regardless of race/nationality.

Besidses, if Israel is tougher, and say, builds checkpoints within Gaza, kinda like it does in the West Bank, it'll be one more international law violation, PLUS the increased support of Hamas via the Gaza civilians, meaning more attacks on Israel. Going tougher on Gaza will ultimately result in the same conclusion I stated before.
#30
Quote by TOMMYB22
It's given the threat that a lot of the citizens are under but i just feel that Israel can be too pre-emptive with their defense policies, especially with the governments of recent years


I can totally see Israel's perspective on this. Don't get me wrong. I happen to be Lebanese, but I believe in International and Humanitarian law; nothing else. Most of us here in Lebanon don't even like hezbollah to begin with.

I think the motive behind the security is (obviously) a positive thing. All nations want to protect their people. I just think they can change their methods on most (if not all) their security policies. They seem all too extreme and more or less counter-productive to me.
#31
Quote by spiritcrusher91
Not neccesarily. The thing is, I don't think it should all be black or white...but grey.

For example, Israel can have secure borders, but it should have exceptions where it should open up, such as humanitarian aid into Gaza. Having secure borders also doesn't mean imprisoning the people of Gaza. You can have secure borders without dealing with anything inside Gaza itself..it's just a matter of making sure what's there doesn't go within Israeli territory. Also, Israeli's border patrol should have equal policies for non-Arab citizens going through borders, because I'm sure most car-bomb situations are based on terrorists crossing the border with fake/illegal passports of other countries. So instead of letting anyone with a European/American passport go through with ease, they should have equal searching policies, regardless of race/nationality.

Besidses, if Israel is tougher, and say, builds checkpoints within Gaza, kinda like it does in the West Bank, it'll be one more international law violation, PLUS the increased support of Hamas via the Gaza civilians, meaning more attacks on Israel. Going tougher on Gaza will ultimately result in the same conclusion I stated before.



Add to that, if all of that is implemented, you will have to add to that some form of international judicial proceedings for all the violations.
#32
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Add to that, if all of that is implemented, you will have to add to that some form of international judicial proceedings for all the violations.


This should happen anyway, Israel can't go around violating international law just because they have allies with big guns backing their actions up.
#33
I live in Israel and I'm sorry to tell you, but you guys are talking bulls-hit.

Isral have a kidnapped soldier in Gaza. For about 3 years now. All we got since he was kidnapped was a short video of him proving he is alive (which they gave 'cause they wanted hundreds of palestains for him. Not 1 for 1, but hundreds for one. exept one thing - the palestines are in prison for being terrorists. Gilad Shalit is in worse-than-prison for being a soldier). Israel allowed the 'humanitarian' convoy to enter Gaza, but demanded to search it (we don't want more weapons to kill our citizens and soldiers, if it is fine by you). The convoy didn't wanted to be searched (weard?), so we sent soldiers on it to search it. The soldiers were ambushed and attacked and only after one soldier was badly injured they fired back.

how are we the bad guys here?
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#34
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
The convoy could have gotten in through official channels. It didn't.


Go Israel!


Congratulations, you're going to hell.

Quote by Fassa Albrecht
if it's that big a deal then you'd go through proper channels. It's not hard.


Yes it is... Most of the time, supplies that try to go through proper channels never make it in to Gaza.
#35
Another thing, the so-called 'humanitarian' convoy had a lot of knives (not cooking knives) and other cold-weapons.
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#36
I can see another 7 day war type thing happening within the next year or so...

I'm Just sayin'
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#37
Quote by yonmwar
I live in Israel and I'm sorry to tell you, but you guys are talking bulls-hit.

Isral have a kidnapped soldier in Gaza. For about 3 years now. All we got since he was kidnapped was a short video of him proving he is alive (which they gave 'cause they wanted hundreds of palestains for him. Not 1 for 1, but hundreds for one. exept one thing - the palestines are in prison for being terrorists. Gilad Shalit is in worse-than-prison for being a soldier). Israel allowed the 'humanitarian' convoy to enter Gaza, but demanded to search it (we don't want more weapons to kill our citizens and soldiers, if it is fine by you). The convoy didn't wanted to be searched (weard?), so we sent soldiers on it to search it. The soldiers were ambushed and attacked and only after one soldier was badly injured they fired back.

how are we the bad guys here?

Unfortunately, you are the bad guys because 19 civilians died.

Before people start flaming me, I'm merely stating what most people will remember of this incident, not my opinion. Yes, they should have accepted to be searched, and yes, they attacked first. But still, 19 people died.

It's not fair, but Israel's already badly damaged image will greatly suffer from this, because several European countries had people involved in this humanitarian convoy, and they're getting seriously tired at Israel's apparent impunity in dealing with Palestinians lives.
---

"L'esclave parfait est celui qui croit être libre."

---
Last edited by Astyan at May 31, 2010,
#38
One of the reports stated that "Activists seized at least two pistols from the boarding party".
"Activists"?
I can't see no group of peaceful hippies wrestling a pistol away from an armed Israeli Commando. I'm sure there's much more to the story we're not seeing.
#40
Quote by yonmwar
Israel allowed the 'humanitarian' convoy to enter Gaza, but demanded to search it (we don't want more weapons to kill our citizens and soldiers, if it is fine by you). The convoy didn't wanted to be searched (weard?), so we sent soldiers on it to search it. The soldiers were ambushed and attacked and only after one soldier was badly injured they fired back.

how are we the bad guys here?


That's not how I understood the story. Every media outlet has a different version of the story, so I'm not trusting them atm. The fact of the matter is that a bunch of civilians died and that's fvcked up.

Quote by yonmwar
Another thing, the so-called 'humanitarian' convoy had a lot of knives (not cooking knives) and other cold-weapons.


OH NOES! Kill them all!
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