#4
Well, lower is a better word choice than flatten but it's pretty much just nit-picking

Flatten could be misconstrued as meaning make the note flat, not lower it by one semitone.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
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#5
Quote by FacetOfChaos
Well, lower is a better word choice than flatten but it's pretty much just nit-picking

Flatten could be misconstrued as meaning make the note flat, not lower it by one semitone.
That's exactly what "flatting the note" means; lowering it a semitone.
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-Chick Corea
#6
errr... its better to approach it as the Natural minor with a raised 7th

reason being: Key Signature 1 flat: F major.. you wouldnt draw accidentals on A and D to get F harmonic minor but rather make the key signature Ab major: 4 flats and just make the E natural for the leading tone

also.. harmonic minor still follows the general mode shapes as natty minor
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Last edited by seymour_jackson at Jun 2, 2010,
#8
Quote by MapOfYourHead
Fixed


That's not fixed, you've just said the same thing in a different way!

The natural minor with a raised 7th is the same as the natural minor with a natural (or major) 7th

...and yes, flattening the 3rd and 6th degrees will give you the notes for the harmonic minor- but that's not where the harmonic minor comes from.

The harmonic minor is the natural minor with a sharpened leading note. It's a bit like looking at the dorian mode as "just the melodic minor scale with a flattened 7th"...the notes would be correct but you would be missing that it's the 2nd mode of the major scale (which is where it comes from).
#9
Seeing that scales are derived from the major scale, you should refer to them with the major scale in mind.

Quote by chainsawguitar

The natural minor with a raised 7th is the same as the natural minor with a natural (or major) 7th


Yes, and C and B# are the same note, aren't they...
#10
Quote by MapOfYourHead

Yes, and C and B# are the same note, aren't they...


No...who said that?!

If you're in C# minor, the 7th note is B natural, sharpening it would make it B# (i.e. a major 7th interval, or a natural 7th).

If you're in C# major, the third is an E# and the 6th is an A#. Flattening those two gives you E (minor third) and A (minor 6th) and creates the C# harmonic minor scale.

Simple...
#11
You aren't sharpening the 7th, you are reverting it back to it's natural state.

No...who said that?!


By that I meant that if you're going to ignore what is actually happening, why not just throw the enharmonic system out the window as well.

Scales are derived from the major scale. So if the minor scale has a flattened natural 7th, then the harmonic minor scale is the natural minor scale with a natural 7th.

Nitpicking4life, brah.
#12
It would be best to just refer to it as a natural 7th so you're not caught with a bunch of composers laughing at you.

If you label the notes of the major scale 1 through 7 and present them like so:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Then you can obtain the Minor scale by flattening certain notes, notated like this:

1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Since the Harmonic Minor scale has a natural 7th, it follows that it's written like so:

1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7

Flattening the 3rd and 6th just like you said. If this notation doesn't make sense, look for the link in my signature for a better explanation.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#13
Quote by fenprod
well im glad the music i play don't use theory
But it does.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#15
Quote by food1010
But it does.


Nah man, he listens to 4'33'' by John Cage on a loop
Quote by BlitzkriegAir
1. Get drunk
2. play pentatonic scales fast
3. throw in some divebombs and pinch harmonics
4. Get killed onstage
5. become legendary guitarist instantaneously


Quote by Holy Katana

How dare you attack the greatness of the augmented sixth?
#16
Quote by Tominator_1991
Nah man, he listens to 4'33'' by John Cage on a loop


Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#17
Quote by Tominator_1991
Nah man, he listens to 4'33'' by John Cage on a loop


I'm pretty sure the audience is part of the orchestration in that; all that coughing, shuffling about and opening crisps happens at specific intervals that are just too common occuring to be a coincidence.

It's clearly an insight into the natural symphony that occurs through the audience during a live performance, bringing an element of reality to the proceedings, a reflection of the modern world if you will.
#18
if you play a major scale with an augmented 5th.. 3rd mode of harmonic minor
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#19
Quote by MapOfYourHead
I'm pretty sure the audience is part of the orchestration in that; all that coughing, shuffling about and opening crisps happens at specific intervals that are just too common occuring to be a coincidence.

It's clearly an insight into the natural symphony that occurs through the audience during a live performance, bringing an element of reality to the proceedings, a reflection of the modern world if you will.


and the natural occurring sounds of "HEY!!!!! DOWN IN FRONT!"
Quote by BlitzkriegAir
1. Get drunk
2. play pentatonic scales fast
3. throw in some divebombs and pinch harmonics
4. Get killed onstage
5. become legendary guitarist instantaneously


Quote by Holy Katana

How dare you attack the greatness of the augmented sixth?
#20
Quote by food1010
That's exactly what "flatting the note" means; lowering it a semitone.

I've been playing guitar for 52 years 45 as a pro and I'm still learning so our friend is most fortunate if he knows everything and since he doesn't put his colleague right about NOT knowing everything he must believe he does...sad..... I will assure you though that he doesn't. If he does believe that I will give him some questions that he won't find the answer to by "Google" then what.? Incidently, I am also 68

(all tongue in cheek of course)
#21
Quote by fenderflyer
I've been playing guitar for 52 years 45 as a pro and I'm still learning so our friend is most fortunate if he knows everything and since he doesn't put his colleague right about NOT knowing everything he must believe he does...sad..... I will assure you though that he doesn't. If he does believe that I will give him some questions that he won't find the answer to by "Google" then what.? Incidently, I am also 68

(all tongue in cheek of course)

Are you the oldest person on the internet?
Oh yeah.

Quote by hildesaw
A minor is the saddest of all keys.

EDIT: D minor is the saddest of all keys.
#22
Quote by fenderflyer
I've been playing guitar for 52 years 45 as a pro and I'm still learning so our friend is most fortunate if he knows everything and since he doesn't put his colleague right about NOT knowing everything he must believe he does...sad..... I will assure you though that he doesn't. If he does believe that I will give him some questions that he won't find the answer to by "Google" then what.? Incidently, I am also 68

(all tongue in cheek of course)
Wait, what?
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea