#1
PLEASE HELP!

I've been trying to get badass metal recording tone (Killswtich Egnage, Arch Enemy, etc.) for years now and I'm finally losing hope

I have a Jackson Soloist (EMG-81 at bridge) dropped to B into a Peavey Vypyr 120 head (LOVE IT!) with a Mesa 4x12 cab. The tone is AMAZING . I use a SM57 with a Tascam US-122 interface and Cubase. When I put the SM57 about inch (give or take a bit) away from one of the speakers (all areas) I get a very weak or unbalanced tone. I know the pros layer tracks a lot but when I do that it sounds muddy and unclear. When I record with guitar>boss metal zone>us-122 via DI it sounds decent when I EQ the hell out of it (post).

I'm desperate to start using my amp for recording. I love the tone I get out of it. I'm also insanely curious at this point how those amazing metal tones (a la Killswitch Engage) are created on albums by micing with basically the same equiptment I'm using.

HELP!
#2
Im pretty sure most of them will run a tubescreamer through the effects loops to get that rich full tone. Just balance out the gain between the 2 for your tastes.
Nathan
#3
ProTone Pedals: Attack Overdrive
Fractal Audio: AxeFX 2
Engl: Fireball 60
Zilla: Fatboy 2x12
Carvin: DC700
Carvin: Vader 7
Schecter: KM-7 MKii
Schecter: Banshee 8 Passive
Jackson: DK2M
#5
Quote by Natethegreat
Im pretty sure most of them will run a tubescreamer through the effects loops to get that rich full tone. Just balance out the gain between the 2 for your tastes.

that's to get more tube saturation...it won't help OP, even if his amp is tube, it saturates on it's own well enough
hello

n.n
#6
two sm57's one direct in the center of the cone about 6 in's away and another off-axis mic about 8-10 in's away. mix those two together and you should have a full warm tone with plenty of bite and crunch. then EQ as necissary.
Quote by StillSoundRG
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#7
There could be lots of reasons why you aren't getting the tone you want. I'm supposed to be doing uni work lolz, so am fighting myself to not write a mile-long lecture but I'll offer a few suggestions.

Try increasing the volume of your amp a bit (though if your neighbours/parents complain, that's something you may not be able to do) - the louder things get, the more the frequency balance picked up by the mic (and your ears) changes. The optimum level for the human ear (optimum giving the flattest frequency response between 20Hz - 20kHz) is around 85dB SPL, though obviously with microphones it varies greatly between model and type.

You could also try raising your cab off the floor, even if it's just on a (strong) chair or a crate, as this will reduce the vibrations reaching the floor, from the low end, which can travel up the mic stand and affect your tone at the mic's capsule by way of resonance.

You should also move the mic further back if you are experiencing issues with too much/exaggerated bass, or a dis-joined sound between the low end and the rest of your tone. Additionally, experiment with tilting the mic off-axis while angled towards the centre of the speaker cone and then move the mic around towards the edge of the cone etc. until you start hearing better things.

You should also bear in mind that your amp will sound very different if you listen to things in the same position the mic would 'hear' things. Bass is fairly omni-directional, but the higher frequencies of the audible sound spectrum are more focused and if you are standing with the speakers way below ear-height, and you're not far enough back to negate this, you will hear a very different balance.

If you are trying to sit the guitar in a mix, bear in mind that scooped mids may sound good in a bedroom but rarely work on record. The mid frequencies are what bring out guitars in a mix.

Other than that, try to get a good sound before using corrective EQ. You shouldn't have to EQ or compress a guitar too much if it's recorded properly - maybe putting a HPF (High Pass Filter) on the signal at around 80-100Hz, boosting around 450-700Hz, and cutting some of the 250-400Hz region and a light shelving boost at 8-10kHz if the guitars aren't cutting through enough.

Also, something a lot of producers do, if this is a problem you find, is to copy things like pinched harmonics or lead runs, and layer them on additional tracks to boost their volume, and maybe add delay to the additional tracks. This makes important parts of a riff stand out better, and will help bring quieter licks up to volume without using compression on a whole track.

Good luck!
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#8
Thanks Goliath!

Maybe the volume on my amp is too low. I'm pretty decent tone with the DI and metal zone but its just not that tube sound we all love. I'll have to try turning the volume up on my amp. I have a couple other questions.

Do any of you know pro artists that use direct in recording for guitars?

Does it make a difference whether the mic gain is high and the amp volume is low or the mic gain low and the amp volume high as long as the signal is maxed without clipping?
#9
Quote by GuitardedMark
Thanks Goliath!

Maybe the volume on my amp is too low. I'm pretty decent tone with the DI and metal zone but its just not that tube sound we all love. I'll have to try turning the volume up on my amp. I have a couple other questions.

Do any of you know pro artists that use direct in recording for guitars?

Does it make a difference whether the mic gain is high and the amp volume is low or the mic gain low and the amp volume high as long as the signal is maxed without clipping?


Lots of people, probably most modern metal producers, will record every guitar take with the guitar > DI box, and then the DI splitting the signal and sending half back to the amp, and the other into the recording system. Even if the DI recording isn't what the artist wants during recording, it helps to have a clean guitar signal which can then be reamped during post-production if the original tracking of the guitar has problems that cannot be address by corrective EQ etc.

I record all guitars I do personally, via DI, when demo'ing a track for my band, and will then record the parts with my amp for an actual recording and can combine DI recording with it if I wish. But as I think I said earlier, good tracking of the recording leads to fewer problems when mixing, and learning how to get the best sound with the mic is a constant learning curve (even in the last 8 months between starting my 2nd year at uni and completing it, I've probably improved my tracking habits a few hundred percent!) and it comes from practise and trial and error

And I'd say it's probably best to get as much volume as you can from the amp, before boosting the mic's gain, as you'll get more noise from the preamp the mic is running off if you boost that really high for a low incoming signal. The last thing you want is a great tone that has lots of hiss masking it, and EQ won't really help you there!
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#10
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Lots of people, probably most modern metal producers, will record every guitar take with the guitar > DI box, and then the DI splitting the signal and sending half back to the amp, and the other into the recording system. Even if the DI recording isn't what the artist wants during recording, it helps to have a clean guitar signal which can then be reamped during post-production if the original tracking of the guitar has problems that cannot be address by corrective EQ etc.

I record all guitars I do personally, via DI, when demo'ing a track for my band, and will then record the parts with my amp for an actual recording and can combine DI recording with it if I wish. But as I think I said earlier, good tracking of the recording leads to fewer problems when mixing, and learning how to get the best sound with the mic is a constant learning curve (even in the last 8 months between starting my 2nd year at uni and completing it, I've probably improved my tracking habits a few hundred percent!) and it comes from practise and trial and error

And I'd say it's probably best to get as much volume as you can from the amp, before boosting the mic's gain, as you'll get more noise from the preamp the mic is running off if you boost that really high for a low incoming signal. The last thing you want is a great tone that has lots of hiss masking it, and EQ won't really help you there!



WOW!

Thanks for the help man! Sounds like you really know what your talking about!
#11
Quote by GuitardedMark
WOW!

Thanks for the help man! Sounds like you really know what your talking about!

I'm doing a BSc in Sound Engineering & Production at probably the best university for media-based studies in the UK... I'm supposed to know a lot more than I do hehe. I can't claim to know everything, but you were asking a lot of stuff I probably wondered a year or two ago, so I just happened to know some solutions I also spend a hell of a lot of time these days playing around with recordings to try and get the best from them, so that I can produce my band's stuff to a level beyond working with a producer that doesn't know the band/songs as well as I do!
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