#1
Hi everyone, I was wondering, is there any difference between the master and channel volumes on an amp? thanks in advance.
#2
yes, the exact differences very between amps. what amp are you talking about?
If you don't talk to your kids about GAS, who will?
#3
the channel volume controls the individual channels on your amp. So if you have like a lead channel you could have that one a little louder than the other. The master volume controls how loud the channel volume goes. You could have the channel volume cranked but it will only go as loud as the master volume lets it.
#4
Well I have a line 6 Spider III but I am considering upgrading, so I was wondering how exactly they vary.
#5
Quote by smmSTV
Well I have a line 6 Spider III but I am considering upgrading, so I was wondering how exactly they vary.


Well basically your master volume is going to set a limit on how high the total volume can go. You have 2 choices:

1) Max out master volume, use channel volume as your guide for each channel's independent volume.

2) Max out both channel volume and use the master to control total amp volume.

Problem with #2 is my amp while clean is very different from my amp while on the high gain channel. Also using #1 let's you do the "lead boost" idea where you setup a "lead boost" either setting or independent channel (depends how many you have?) so you can get a higher volume and different equalizer settings.
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#6
Quote by `digitaL.braVo
Well basically your master volume is going to set a limit on how high the total volume can go. You have 2 choices:

1) Max out master volume, use channel volume as your guide for each channel's independent volume.

2) Max out both channel volume and use the master to control total amp volume.

Problem with #2 is my amp while clean is very different from my amp while on the high gain channel. Also using #1 let's you do the "lead boost" idea where you setup a "lead boost" either setting or independent channel (depends how many you have?) so you can get a higher volume and different equalizer settings.

Or you could not max either and actually dial them in so that it sounds best...

TS - As was said before, it depends on the design of the master volume, but in general terms a master volume decreases the total output of the power amp, while channel volume decreases the amount of signal being fed into the power amp. So the advantage is that you can get the hotter, grittier sound of high output at lower volumes with a master volume... In theory. In my experience its rarely all that effective.

Basically both controls are bleeding signal off to ground. Bleed too much off at either point and you lose some clarity and dynamics. So what I do is keep both as high as possible while keeping my volume bearable, which seems to keep the most of the amp's character while keeping volume down.
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#7
Quote by tubetime86
Or you could not max either and actually dial them in so that it sounds best...

TS - As was said before, it depends on the design of the master volume, but in general terms a master volume decreases the total output of the power amp, while channel volume decreases the amount of signal being fed into the power amp. So the advantage is that you can get the hotter, grittier sound of high output at lower volumes with a master volume... In theory. In my experience its rarely all that effective.

Basically both controls are bleeding signal off to ground. Bleed too much off at either point and you lose some clarity and dynamics. So what I do is keep both as high as possible while keeping my volume bearable, which seems to keep the most of the amp's character while keeping volume down.


The fact that it is a Line 6 Spider II sort of renders this whole post irrelevant.
Quote by sargasm
There are no genres in metal that end with "core."
#8
Quote by `digitaL.braVo
The fact that it is a Line 6 Spider II sort of renders this whole post irrelevant.

No the fact that you can't read renders your whole post irrelevant. TS said he's looking at other amps and was just wondering about advantages and disadvantages of MVs, I would assume in relation to making a purchase.
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Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#9
the channel volume on the spider III is the volume that is saved with presets, allowing you to control how loud your presets are in relation to one another, as different amp models will all be different volumes and such, so it allows you to save the settings at equal volumes (or if you want one to be louder for a solo boost you can save it with the channel volume a bit higher), while the master volume controls the overall volume of the amp.
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#10
Master = poweramp output level
Channel = preamp output level
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PEAVEY JSX
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#11
Quote by Van Noord
Master = poweramp output level
Channel = preamp output level


not really. the master is the level of the signal going into the phase inverter or coming out of the phase inverter.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#12
Having a Master volume allows you to set each channel volume so you have the correct relative volume when switching channels. Then you can just use the Master to adjust the output level without screwing up the relative levels.
#13
It's probably already been said, but typically channel volume controls the preamp volume for each separate channel and the master controls the power section or phase inverter (depending on design), which globally affects the volume of all channels.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#14
Quote by Van Noord
Master = poweramp output level
Channel = preamp output level
No, that would e saying that channel level was pre-amp gain, versus power amp. I think it's like what tubetime said.


Quote by tubetime86
Or you could not max either and actually dial them in so that it sounds best...

TS - As was said before, it depends on the design of the master volume, but in general terms a master volume decreases the total output of the power amp, while channel volume decreases the amount of signal being fed into the power amp. So the advantage is that you can get the hotter, grittier sound of high output at lower volumes with a master volume... In theory. In my experience its rarely all that effective.

Basically both controls are bleeding signal off to ground. Bleed too much off at either point and you lose some clarity and dynamics. So what I do is keep both as high as possible while keeping my volume bearable, which seems to keep the most of the amp's character while keeping volume down.
So your saying it may be best to run the individual channel post-gain higher, to keep bleedage at a lower rate, and then adjust overall volume with the master?
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#15
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
No, that would e saying that channel level was pre-amp gain, versus power amp. I think it's like what tubetime said.


So your saying it may be best to run the individual channel post-gain higher, to keep bleedage at a lower rate, and then adjust overall volume with the master?


no the master volume controls the phase inverter. it's semantics really. but technically there's a difference. The only thing that matters is that the master volume controls how hot the signal is going into the power tubes. There's no control for what comes out of the power tubes which is what would be describing. You'd need an attenuator for that. There is no knob for power amp gain other then shooting a hotter signal from the pi
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#16
Quote by AcousticMirror
not really. the master is the level of the signal going into the phase inverter or coming out of the phase inverter.
Yes, and as said, it depends on the design. I know with my amp the PI tube is seperated from from the preamp, and is called the poweramp driver. It's part of poweramp. Just because it's a 12AT, AU, or AX7, it doesn't mean it is only used for preamps.
MARSHALL JVM 210H
PEAVEY JSX
KRANK 412
MESA 412
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DIMARZIO
CELESTION
#17
what are you talking about. the phase inverter is the last stage of the preamp.
the power tubes are the power amp.

Preamp ------------------ > power amp

1st gain stage - 2nd gain stage - phase inverter ----> power amp
(gain pot 1) - (gain pot 2) - master volume --- brootz

easy
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#18
I'm talking about my amp. The Phase inverter is not in the preamp. It is part of the power amp. Read the JSX pdf and research the tube layout if you can't wrap your head
around it.
V1-input/clean, V2-gain, V3-output/active eq,
V4-PI, V5-EL34, V6-EL34, V7-EL34, V8-EL34
And don't be such a pretentious dick.........dick.
MARSHALL JVM 210H
PEAVEY JSX
KRANK 412
MESA 412
FENDER STRATS
DIMARZIO
CELESTION
Last edited by Van Noord at Jun 2, 2010,
#19
Quote by Van Noord
I'm talking about my amp. The Phase inverter is not in the preamp. It is part of the power amp. Read the JSX pdf and research the tube layout if you can't wrap your head
around it.
V1-input/clean, V2-gain, V3-output/active eq,
V4-PI, V5-EL34, V6-EL34, V7-EL34, V8-EL34
And don't be such a pretentious dick.........dick.


I can't even begin to understand what you don't understand about how this works.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#20
Maybe if you told us some of the amps you're looking at, we can tell you EXACTLY how the master/channel volume system works on those amps.

And maybe stop this thread from being a flame war.
#21
The V4 is the phase inverter and part of the power amp
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#22
Peavey could call that tube a nut sauce dongle berry for all I cared.

Originally Posted by Van Noord
Master = poweramp output level
Channel = preamp output level

Right that's what you said right. That's what the disagreement is over.

The amp has 4 12ax7s



It goes one two three then the effects loop then it hits the p.i.
Fine it's part of the power amp. You win. Who cares. Peavey sure as hell didn't feel the need to include it in that big circle in the middle there that they labeled TUBE POWER AMP.

So check it right. You can follow the schematic ya? Input at the bottom. Then up towards the top. THEN U TURN. Then back down.

Alright so let's look at this again.

Originally Posted by Van Noord
Master = poweramp output level
Channel = preamp output level

HOW DOES THE MASTER = POWERAMP OUTPUT LEVEL IF IT'S BEFORE THE POWER AMP.

Buddy, if you live in a world where everyone else is a pretentious dick when they are right and you are wrong....
I would love to make a reality tv show about the schadenfreude filled antics of your so called life.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#23
on most budget amplifiers, the master volume is the phase inverter input level. in some high end amps, master volume could be the output section input level. which means it's after the phase inverter.

on single ended designs, phase inverters are unnecessary, so most master volume (if there is any) would be the output section input level.

channel volume is in the middle of the preamp section. if an amp has a "channel volume" control, it has multiple gain stages. the control is in the middle controlling the volume between gain stages.


as far as phase inverter = which section goes... phase inverter splits the positive and negative signal into two. it could be noted as part of the preamp section, it could be noted as part of the output section, or it could be noted as a whole new section between the preamp and the output stages. in short, we don't care what part it's "called". it's at the same spot anyway.
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#24
lulz, amps r dumb
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#26
Most of this discussion is irrelevant, since there are no gain/volume control labeling rules whatsoever; making generalization useless. Ask about specific amps.
#27
Quote by mr_hankey
Most of this discussion is irrelevant, since there are no gain/volume control labeling rules whatsoever; making generalization useless. Ask about specific amps.


true, thats not the point though. the point is that unless the master volume is tied to an internal load and attenuating the output signal there's no way for any knob to control the output of the power tube section. They all control the input into the power tubes either as input into the p.i. or output from the p.i.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#28
Quote by AcousticMirror
true, thats not the point though. the point is that unless the master volume is tied to an internal load and attenuating the output signal there's no way for any knob to control the output of the power tube section. They all control the input into the power tubes either as input into the p.i. or output from the p.i.

The manufacturer can put a control wherever they like in the circuit (after the power-amp; before the first gain stage; etc) and call it 'master volume'. But generally speaking; yes, you're right.
#29
OK seriously, what is all this stuff about phase inverters, gain stages, etc. If someone could enlighten me it would be much appreciated.
#30
Quote by smmSTV
OK seriously, what is all this stuff about phase inverters, gain stages, etc. If someone could enlighten me it would be much appreciated.

You want someone to explain the internal workings of a tube amp to you via a 250 character post?? Kids these days.
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Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#32
Quote by smmSTV
yeah pretty much

There are entire books that only cover single sections of single amps... No offense, but if you're truly interested you need to get reading.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!