#1
I signed up for the music theory class at school. I was called down to have a meeting with the teacher. She said she does not want me to take the class because I am not in a large group ensemble next year (Band, choir, orchestra, although I HAVE been in band for 7 years, I am quitting for next year.)

She is saying the theory you learn in this class is strictly for composing and working with large group ensembles. I told her I am a musician outside of school and I would be using the information I learn to better understand guitar, and how it works. She said it has nothing to do with guitar.

So, as she was telling me this I thought it was a crock, you can incorporate ensemble stuff to guitar. Why is she telling me I can't? Is this class really not for me? I guess I really don't know anything about theory (that's why I wanted the class ) Should I still try to take it? Or is it really not going to be what I think it is.
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#3
Well it's not universal in that Western music theory is miles different than Eastern music theory but it is universal in the sense that it would be just as useful for you to learn as it would be for someone in an ensemble. I concur with the above post, your teacher is an idiot.
#4
No offense taken, I don't even know her haha. To allow me to take it she wants me to re-join band (it's honestly the most boring thing ever) or join choir. I'm not interested in either option.

I compared this to not being able to take the wood tech class, because I don't work at a construction gig.
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#5
The teacher is a moron. Straight up.
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#6
Have you wronged this teacher in some way? What you were told sounds like an extensive conspiracy to prevent you from taking a class. If I were you I would be on the horn to the ACLU a.s.a.p.!
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#7
Quote by Nergal22691
Well it's not universal in that Western music theory is miles different than Eastern music theory but it is universal in the sense that it would be just as useful for you to learn as it would be for someone in an ensemble. I concur with the above post, your teacher is an idiot.


I don't think it's that in depth =\.
Matthew 7:7 ""Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

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#8
she's far too narrow-minded. i'd also hazard a guess (if i interpreted your OP correctly), that she's talking about orchestration -- which i wouldn't even really consider theory.

if it's not orchestration, and she actually is referring to a certain subsection of music theory, then i agree - she absolutely is a moron.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#9
Yeah if she's talking about orchestration then I would agree with her that it won't do you any good as a guitarist. But if that's the case, what the hell is she doing teaching orchestration in a music theory class?
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#10
I don't know what orchestration is ? But a project at the end of the class is to arrange a song for the choir to sing. Is that maybe the reason?

Edit: Lots of the students accompany the singing with a guitar... -.-
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Last edited by tr3nt at Jun 2, 2010,
#11
Quote by tr3nt
I don't know what orchestration is ? But a project at the end of the class is to arrange a song for the choir to sing. Is that maybe the reason?

That shouldn't be a reason at all.

For the last test in my Music Theory AP class we had to write something on Finale. A lot of people made arrangements of songs, but many just decided to write for a small orchestra and stuff like that.

Orchestration is the techniques used when writing for an orchestra.
#12
Quote by DiminishedFifth
That shouldn't be a reason at all.

For the last test in my Music Theory AP class we had to write something on Finale. A lot of people made arrangements of songs, but many just decided to write for a small orchestra and stuff like that.

Orchestration is the techniques used when writing for an orchestra.


Yeah that's what this class does. They use Finale too.
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#13
I take it your music teacher has never listened to Queen.
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#14
Orchestration has to do with writing or arranging music for an orchestra.

Arranging a song for the choir to sing seems very standard. Choirs work with four voices and four part writing is very standard in theory classes. While understanding how orchestral music is arranged is barely useful if you only play guitar, four part writing is opens up many ideas that apply universally: voicings, voiceleading, counterpoint, not to mention strengthening melodic skills. If you can, take the class. If she still won't let you, well screw her and learn on your own.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#15
Quote by Eastwinn
If you can, take the class. If she still won't let you, well screw her and learn on your own.

for whatever reason... I read this as "If she still won't let you, screw her well and learn on your own"

#16
I believe I could fight it, they are trying to force me to take a different class, to take Music Theory. The handbook doesn't have any prerequisites for Music Theory, just a backround in music is recommended. Like I said I've been playing guitar for 3 years, I've been in band for 7 years, it's not like I'm going in blind, I can read music fluently. I just want to learn more about it and how it works, pretty retarded imo.

I mean I'd just love to learn this while at school, but if I can't, how tough is it to teach yourself?
Matthew 7:7 ""Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

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#17
Well it took me about a year to learn enough to become an MT regular of sorts, but I had such a huge passion for writing that it came quickly.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#18
Do you have a good source I could look into? Should I buy a book or something?
Matthew 7:7 ""Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

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#19
Quote by tr3nt
Is this class really not for me?
From the sounds of it, this class is not for anyone with more brains than God gave to an earthworm. At least if she's the one teaching it. If you have a functioning brain, then this class is not for you.

Be glad you found out now.
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#21
^ That site is where I started also. There are articles here too. If you ever need help you can make a new thread and as long as it's not about modes we'll be happy to answer.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#22
I would advise getting your parents invovled and talking to the principal and have a meeting with you, your parents, the principal and the teacher. Ask for a copy of the syllabus, or have her outline what she will be teaching.

Just don't tell her she's being a moron.

EDIT: Also, ask her what she is going to be teaching you that can't be applied to guitar. Some theory, like transposing for non C instrument doesn't apply, but you're still learning.

That probably will be covered when you find out what exactly she would be teaching, just an extra thought. But make sure to argue everthing.
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Last edited by rockingamer2 at Jun 2, 2010,
#23
Quote by Eastwinn
Well it took me about a year to learn enough to become an MT regular of sorts, but I had such a huge passion for writing that it came quickly.


same for me - except my passion for writing was not nearly as large. hell, even to this day i have to find the musical equivalent of viagra just to write a one-minute piano waltz.

theory's not hard at all - if you're serious about it.
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#24
So I basically got a notebook and started taking notes from musictheory.net and instantly started making connections with my guitar and went "ohhhh I get it" haha. The scale formulas totally make sense now.
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#25
take it anyway just to piss her off
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#26
Quote by tr3nt
No offense taken, I don't even know her haha. To allow me to take it she wants me to re-join band (it's honestly the most boring thing ever) or join choir. I'm not interested in either option.




it sounds like a bureaucracy issue. they probably want you to enroll in the band or choir, based on their policies.

Its too bad you have an attitude about the ensembles she wants you to join. it makes perfect sense to be part of the type of ensembles that you'll be learning to arrange/compose for.


I would suggest that you lose the attitude, join one of them, and get the most out of the class.


Quote by tr3nt
So I basically got a notebook and started taking notes from musictheory.net and instantly started making connections with my guitar and went "ohhhh I get it" haha. The scale formulas totally make sense now.



or you could just do that. no bureaucracy issue there, and you can learn quite a bit.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 2, 2010,
#27
Quote by GuitarMunky
it sounds like a bureaucracy issue. they probably want you to enroll in the band or choir, based on their policies.

Its too bad you have an attitude about the ensembles she wants you to join. it makes perfect sense to be part of the type of ensembles that you'll be learning to arrange/compose for.


I would suggest that you lose the attitude, join one of them, and get the most out of the class.


or you could just do that. no bureaucracy issue there, and you can learn quite a bit.


I don't have an attitude, I just quit the school band after 7 years to focus on other things. The band program we have isn't for me.
Matthew 7:7 ""Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

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#28
Could it be possible that the class already requires a level of music theory knowledge that you don't yet possess?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#29
Quote by tr3nt
No offense taken, I don't even know her haha. To allow me to take it she wants me to re-join band (it's honestly the most boring thing ever) or join choir. I'm not interested in either option.


Join the choir. Maybe it's not really your interest, but IMHO improving your singing is always a good thing.
#30
Quote by Tyberious Funk
Join the choir. Maybe it's not really your interest, but IMHO improving your singing is always a good thing.

+1

it'll give you a new perspective.
shred is gaudy music
#31
Quote by AlanHB
Could it be possible that the class already requires a level of music theory knowledge that you don't yet possess?
From what I gather in the context, the music theory class is restricted to those who have a need for it. They used to do something similar with a few classes in the HS I attended. It's not open to general students, in an effort to keep the class size down.

If he takes band or choir, he will be allowed to take the class, because that demonstrates a need. He's already take years of band instruction in the same school system, so it's unlikely he's lacking any "prerequisite" knowledge to take the theory class.

Quote by tr3nt
I believe I could fight it, they are trying to force me to take a different class, to take Music Theory. The handbook doesn't have any prerequisites for Music Theory, just a backround in music is recommended. Like I said I've been playing guitar for 3 years, I've been in band for 7 years, it's not like I'm going in blind, I can read music fluently. I just want to learn more about it and how it works, pretty retarded imo.

I mean I'd just love to learn this while at school, but if I can't, how tough is it to teach yourself?
You probably can, but I wouldn't invest too much effort into it, tbh. If you have an extended battle with the teachers in the music department, the attitude of the teacher in the theory class is going to make life difficult for you.

Maybe have a discussion with the principal of the school. Write a polite letter detailing the situation. Have that with you and hand it to him/her at the beginning of your talk.
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#32
Quote by rockingamer2
I would advise getting your parents invovled and talking to the principal and have a meeting with you, your parents, the principal and the teacher. Ask for a copy of the syllabus, or have her outline what she will be teaching.

Just don't tell her she's being a moron.

EDIT: Also, ask her what she is going to be teaching you that can't be applied to guitar. Some theory, like transposing for non C instrument doesn't apply, but you're still learning.

That probably will be covered when you find out what exactly she would be teaching, just an extra thought. But make sure to argue everthing.


^ As a teacher, I can tell you that this sounds like the advice most likely to get you into the class.

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#33
^ I agree. I would definitely recommend that if you make a case for yourself, do it politely.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#34
Quote by tr3nt
I signed up for the music theory class at school. I was called down to have a meeting with the teacher. She said she does not want me to take the class because I am not in a large group ensemble next year (Band, choir, orchestra, although I HAVE been in band for 7 years, I am quitting for next year.)

She is saying the theory you learn in this class is strictly for composing and working with large group ensembles. I told her I am a musician outside of school and I would be using the information I learn to better understand guitar, and how it works. She said it has nothing to do with guitar.

So, as she was telling me this I thought it was a crock, you can incorporate ensemble stuff to guitar. Why is she telling me I can't? Is this class really not for me? I guess I really don't know anything about theory (that's why I wanted the class ) Should I still try to take it? Or is it really not going to be what I think it is.


Be honest and sincere.

Tell her you love music and want to learn more about it in all and any aspects.

In the end you need to respect the teacher. Regardless of what the prospectus says, what she's telling you is that in order to take the class you have to join band or choir. It's really pretty simple and so is the solution - join band or join choir.

Being the teacher of the class she will know better than anyone here at UG, better than you, better than your parents, and probably better than the principle whether the class suits you and what will be required of you to take part in the class.

If you really want to take that class and learn what this teacher is willing to teach you then you will start by taking her advice now and do what needs to be done- join choir or join band. - even better join both.

If you really are genuine in wanting a better understanding of music a year in choir and a band ensemble will only help.

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Last edited by 20Tigers at Jun 3, 2010,
#35
Take it and get an A just show her who's the boss. Any knowledge about something you like (music) is worth gaining for its own sake.
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#36
wow your teacher is an idiot. who cares if it's not about guitar..it's about MUSIC. music works how music works, it doesn't matter what instrument your playing. you can compose and arrange for anything. i hate people like that.
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#37
Quote by calebrocker
wow your teacher is an idiot. who cares if it's not about guitar..it's about MUSIC. music works how music works, it doesn't matter what instrument your playing. you can compose and arrange for anything. i hate people like that.


In general, most guitarists couldn't give a monkeys about learning about classical music/composition. I study both classical music and popular music at college and 4 out of 6 of the guitarists in my popular music class don't show an interest in classical music at all. One of them wants to take formal music next year but for the wrong reasons (has to do another year at college and doesn't want to be left doing no music classes/has no interest in classical music).

Does the teacher know you? if she does she probably thinks you fit into the above category, if not then just tell why why you want to take the class.
#38
Quote by Nergal22691
Well it's not universal in that Western music theory is miles different than Eastern music theory but it is universal in the sense that it would be just as useful for you to learn as it would be for someone in an ensemble. I concur with the above post, your teacher is an idiot.


totally disagreed ...
western music theory is a product of eastern music theory .
#39
Quote by kian89
totally disagreed ...
western music theory is a product of eastern music theory .

For reference..

Western Music Theory is a culmination of everything from Europe, most Asian countries, and almost everything in the Western Hemisphere.

Eastern Music Theory would be stuff from India, the Middle East, Hungary, Cambodia, Tibet... Places that DON'T abide by our rules, and have their own systems/scales/thingstheyuse that are their own (for example, I know for a fact that India doesn't use our 12-TET system).