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#1
Basically, it involves your soloing principles over a track. Your phrasing would be the challenge. It won't be a widdly widdly for all, lets see who nails it to the wall challenge. More like a way to focus on your phrasing.

I've seen a lot of threads that question phrasing and how they would be able to get better at it, the replies being varied and very good. Now to step up to the plate and do it. And for those who asked the question, to also step up to the plate and do it.

Anyone up for it? Suggestions?

PS: No guitarpro files or crap. It has to be audio, and you do have the ability to record because Audicity does work, even has ultra low latency on a standard audio card. So there is no excuse to be had.

PPS: Nothing cries easier than something very easy to work with... so here ya go:

No.1
http://www.box.net/shared/zoeny8mzu5

No.2
http://www.box.net/shared/esag6ur7xq

No.3
http://www.box.net/shared/fov6mqpftz

Pick one or pick all three... if all three then individually uploaded pls

It is as boring a track or as interesting a track as YOU are going to make it

Signed up: (x's portray tracks)

  • Pillo x
  • jenguind
  • seymour_jackson
  • zhilla
  • Nick xxx
  • z4twenny
  • hockeyplayer x
  • canvasdude (with cheap $30 Samson mic) x
  • Griff x
  • Elden G20 x
  • Go Irish
  • Evo xx
  • Diminished fifth x
  • aradine
  • WishfulShredder
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 9, 2010,
#3
Thats a rather nice idea mdw... very nice. I'll look into that one at a later stage though (it could get quite nasty if I did that now)

What i was thinking of was I would supply the drum track and a soft pad... to which you can either solo over... or you could compose accompaniment to the pad and add an additional solo track... the choice would be yours... as it is a challenge.

Time limit is an issue here. Once you say you are in... you have up to a week (that would be 7 days... not 24) from the time I give the pad/you downloading it. So be honest about it, you will only be cheating yourself in the end.

However, there is a condition. If you just do a solo track over the pad, you have two days.

It also will not be a difficult thing to play over... the difficulty lies in how you would be able to accompany it and put something over it.

Why I will not give notes to play right now, is because your imagination needs to take flight on this.
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 3, 2010,
#4
Sign me up, seems simple enough.

Although, like I told lbc a few days ago, I'm pretty skeptical about these challenges because a lot of people always sign u and promise they'll play but they always back out. Is there an incentive to bring others to play? Something so a ton of people post in results and not just empty promises.

Also as usual I only have a bass, is it ok if I do it on bass? I know pretty much none of the regulars are mainly bassists (isn't food one?) but it would be cool if there were more variations of whatever instruments people play. I'd love to see another bass solo apart from mine at least.

When does it start?
#5
Cool pillo, good to have you on board... I understand the skepticism. A lot.

However, this is an opportunity for all the MT people (and whomever else is keen) to actually play and not talk about playing... unless they are afraid of the outcome.

And yes, your preferred instrument is great... it adds a new element of sound to the norm that we have. And food, primusfan and a few others play bass I think, so the more the merrier. All i ask is no midi representations or samples played from the midi. I want to hear actual playing because it is so easy to cheat and give a gp tab and reckon to all that that's how you play... its best to actually hear it being done. No judgements will be passed, but advice can be given from all round as to how to improve or just a whole lot of beer passing round over a great performance. I'll repeat, its not widdly widdly... you can pass off 64ths if you wish for the whole thing, but this will be missing the point.

As soon as I have the backing done it can start. I should have it later this afternoon, just working on some pads and sounds to use and beats.
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 3, 2010,
#6
Sign me up
Q: What's the difference between a Mexican standard tele and an American standard tele?

A: £600
#7
im in
My Gear:
JacksonStars KE TN-02
Jackson DK2M
Jackson WRXT
Jackson KSXT
Jackson DXMG
Jackson 7 String soloist

Ovation Celeberity
#8
I didn't have all my loops/patterns loaded yet... so I worked with what I had.

This track is very bare... the part of accompaniment I enforced a little so as to encourage you to play... However you could solo on it alone... but the track might not stand up too well then.

The notes are A, D, Bb and G...
No.1
http://www.box.net/shared/zoeny8mzu5

No.2
http://www.box.net/shared/esag6ur7xq

No.3
http://www.box.net/shared/fov6mqpftz

Pick one or pick all three...
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 3, 2010,
#9
You know I'm up for it

No Evo - not that!

Edit: I can't do anything til I'm home and my hubby is out - he's kinda overprotective atm. Thinks my guitar is too heavy for me
Last edited by zhilla at Jun 3, 2010,
#10
Quote by zhilla
You know I'm up for it

No Evo - not that!

Edit: I can't do anything til I'm home and my hubby is out - he's kinda overprotective atm. Thinks my guitar is too heavy for me

Cool but its not like you could get preggies twice... hehehe

Yeah, guitars can be heavy sometimes...
#11
Quote by Pillo114
(isn't food one?)
Yes primarily, although I'd do this on guitar.

Don't sign me up (as I'm not sure), but I might submit something.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Jun 3, 2010,
#13
gimme 48 hours, im pretty sure i got this

can i put in a supporting bass track too? - nevermind, you said we can add additional stuff to it. i already had a good idea for all 3, i'll try not to over do it though (my mind instantly thought "i have pads that would sound good with that and loops and this and that")
Last edited by z4twenny at Jun 3, 2010,
#14
http://drop.io/nxkcdxn

sooo

when more people submit i will crit those but in the meantime feel free to walk all over my friday lunchtime well spent


10:34 - re-uploaded but this time in stereo. oops.
Last edited by Nick_ at Jun 4, 2010,
#16
These are hard, the fact that there is so much you can do plus makes it nerve wracking. Anyways, here's my first entry, the other two have their accompaniments down I just need to wade through (the oil?) and get the leads down.

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/Pillo114/music/all/play846597

This one I'm skeptical about, I practiced and took a few takes and this one seemed to stand out more so I went with it. It's not an opus but man do I love the sound of my bass, I don't know how you fools like the guitard with its spaghetti thin sound.

Nick, I heard yours a few times and you have good ideas for licks, I just think you should pay attention and ride the backing track so it's sounds like you're playing on it and not over it. Also don't be afraid to sustain your notes and pay attention to your articulation; you already have all the right notes now you need to care for them individually so they all sound their best.

I hope I see more people upload, too much talk about reading Piston and building scales but no music...
#17
Um...stupid question time - are we only allowed to use A D Bb and G, or were you just being kind and telling us what was going on in the background?
#18
Quote by zhilla
Um...stupid question time - are we only allowed to use A D Bb and G, or were you just being kind and telling us what was going on in the background?


They are the notes in the background, though he wasn't as kind as you'd think. They aren't chords, just single notes, so those notes don't necessarily have to be the roots of chords. It's good and bad in that you have a big choice of keys, scales, chords and things you could do while not being a straightforward sort of thing.
#20
samples and things can be used in the accompaniment btw.

The lead/meody is your chosen instrument... if by chance it is done with a midi keyboard (ie: real midi keyboard... therefore NO drawing of notes into a sequencer)... you are NOT allowed to quantize. But legit audio giving instruments are a must... but if all you have is the midi keyboard (and the site is called "ultimate guitar" which means I have no idea why you are here then) then you may use it. But I would prefer real instrumentation.

The same way that a guitar can't really be quantized unless you gather the hitpoints, line em up and cheat and lose your feel you're supposed to have made by hand
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 5, 2010,
#21
OK... mine is up on my profile... I used no.3

Now I can listen to some others.. woohoo
#22
Thanks for the crit pillo. The great advantage here is that we might as well each take three stabs at it while paying attention to comments and hopefully improving. I know I'll do at least another, probably this afternoon.


Pillo: people used to give Miles all sorts of sh1t for turning his back to the audience - that's a little what it reminds me of. I'd like you to start using your instrument to ask uncomfortable questions to your listeners. A limitation you might use to force it: D is forbidden. Too safe. If you want be ridiculous, bar yourself from the entire D minor pentatonic.

Evo: I felt like there was too much connect the dots in this take. Your challenge: You must rest on every downbeat where the backing changes. Start your phrases somewhere else, let their forms not be ruled by the bar line.


I'd like to make clear with the criticism - you both are well beyond the point where I'd happily share a stage. Which is great because it means we can zero in on the quibbles.


Also: in a phrasing exercise, why would you WANT to quantize? at least half the fun is how you sidestep, prod, and twist rhythms to mess with the marching band. Plus if you have terrible timing you'll never know unless you stick it out there for people to hear.
#23
Quote by Pillo114
T

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/Pillo114/music/all/play846597

This one I'm skeptical about, I practiced and took a few takes and this one seemed to stand out more so I went with it. It's not an opus but man do I love the sound of my bass, I don't know how you fools like the guitard with its spaghetti thin sound.



It started off good and had some good lines in there, however on the whole i felt like you where just going up and down the scale without really knowing what you were doing. There were also some intonation issues and your vibrato needs some work but on the whole a solid attempt.
#25
Hey guys! I'm really excited for some feedback. This is the first time I've actually completed a piece of music and my first upload. EVER!

Chords I used:
Am | D | Bb | Gm | Asus4 | Dm | Bb5#4 | Gm

EXPEDITION #1
Oh yeah.

Quote by hildesaw
A minor is the saddest of all keys.

EDIT: D minor is the saddest of all keys.
#26
hockeyplayer... very nice dude. I enjoyed that one. Left a comment on your track so not gonna repeat it again... except for one part. Gilmour dude... same feel... same soundscape texture thing created... very very well done

pillo... awesome feel man... bass is not a lead instrument usually... but you pulled that off brilliantly. Intonation out in some spots but that can be fixed... the feel is what counts and the mood you are portraying on it is great.

nick... nicely done. The tensions were a bit wonky in some places but that comes with time. The lines felt a bit disjointed at times. Nice mood you created btw.
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 5, 2010,
#27
Quote by evolucian
hockeyplayer... very nice dude. I enjoyed that one. Left a comment on your track so not gonna repeat it again... except for one part. Gilmour dude... same feel... same soundscape texture thing created... very very well done

Thanks a lot man. Honestly, I just followed my ears the whole way.
In case anyone is wondering, I listened to each note in the backing track and one by one, found a nice triad to fit over them and not clash along the way. Then I just soloed over each section, stopping to think about where I was coming from and what direction felt right. I didn't try to figure out specific scales, but I kept my intervals and chord tones in mind.

evolucian - I like your piece for the most part. Lots of nice melodies throughout. Sometimes the soloing didn't mesh perfectly, for that, just make sure to always think about chord tones and finding compatible notes.

Nick - Real jazzy! There's some good phrasing going on here but it seems to kind of be floating the whole way through. Try to find some tension and release deep in your soul!

Pillo - Good tone and some nice licks here and there. It does seem pretty lost, however, and didn't seem to really go anywhere.
Oh yeah.

Quote by hildesaw
A minor is the saddest of all keys.

EDIT: D minor is the saddest of all keys.
Last edited by hockeyplayer168 at Jun 5, 2010,
#28
Bump.

I've been working on the second track, might finish it tomorrow. I couldn't leave out the good old modes!


(I think. Close enough to modes, so F you guys who actually know.)
Oh yeah.

Quote by hildesaw
A minor is the saddest of all keys.

EDIT: D minor is the saddest of all keys.
#29
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/Elden+G20/music/all/play847183

Here's my contribution, it may be the slightest bit out of sync (the backing and my guitar accompaniments) but it's very close.
This is a few takes in, so while its mostly improvised, I might have subconsciously been knowing where to go next from previous attempts.

Critique as honestly and constructively as possible
Quote by dmtransmutation
What the Grunge-haters think is just mindless musical nonsense, in reality is the restoration of the old rule of harmony to not write an entire song in one tonality/key
#30
Quote by Elden G20
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/Elden+G20/music/all/play847183

Here's my contribution, it may be the slightest bit out of sync (the backing and my guitar accompaniments) but it's very close.
This is a few takes in, so while its mostly improvised, I might have subconsciously been knowing where to go next from previous attempts.

Critique as honestly and constructively as possible

That was nice and calm dude... spacey tensions... liked it a lot. Nicely done!

Btw... I'm not here to judge your songs with heavy critique... the thread starts off with a line which reads "it involves your soloing principles"... I'll leave that to the pro's

Here's version 2 of 3 http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/evolucian/music/play847246

Quote by Nick_


Your challenge: You must rest on every downbeat where the backing changes. Start your phrases somewhere else, let their forms not be ruled by the bar line.
I don't think you are in a position to challenge quite frankly. Read the opening post again, or the line I quoted for Elden. I happen to play the way I play for a reason... but if you truly want to lay individual challenges... let me know

In defence of my piece,it is constructed in a certain way... with instead of pauses the note lingers so as to create a wall of sound. Also there is a melody line at play which is hinted at in the beginning and then more pronounced in the following eight. This is a songwriting example... each one will be different. I take it you didn't enjoy it, lol... some did... which is ok. Its also reminiscent of Depeche Mode me thinks... same kind of styling in a way. But yeah... not to enjoyed by some and to be enjoyed by others. But I do look forward to your other creations

No offense taken... just letting it hang out there
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 6, 2010,
#31
I'm in I guess. I'll probably record it today (seeing as it's Sunday morning) with my crappy thirty-dollar Samson microphone. Oh, how it doesn't do my beautifully sounding amp justice.
#32
Quote by canvasDude
I'm in I guess. I'll probably record it today (seeing as it's Sunday morning) with my crappy thirty-dollar Samson microphone. Oh, how it doesn't do my beautifully sounding amp justice.

Cool man... looking forward to hearing your creations
#34
I guess I forgot the "should you choose to accept it". I mean it only as a suggestion, where I would like to see your playing go. My taste is drawn to asymmetry. I respect aesthetic choices, but not ones of convenience. And I believe in "tough love" when it comes to music: I grew the most with teachers that tore apart my playing on a weekly basis, that reduced me to tears. Anyway, if you mean that you have a challenge for me I would love to hear it.

I might also apologize for my language which tends to be a little stark and provocative. This is on purpose, an aesthetic choice. (So, incidentally, were the dissonances I used in the accompaniment and lead of my entry - while I take your criticism seriously, "will come with time" is a rather condescending turn, don't you agree? I have found that nothing undermines respect like condescension.)


Anyway I'm about to do some tracking so I'll have something to say about the ones that have been uploaded since when I post my second.
#35
I have to say constructive criticism is over-rated. While well intentioned, it often does more damage than good. Encouragement goes a long way.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 6, 2010,
#36
Quote by Nick_
I guess I forgot the "should you choose to accept it". I mean it only as a suggestion, where I would like to see your playing go. My taste is drawn to asymmetry. I respect aesthetic choices, but not ones of convenience. And I believe in "tough love" when it comes to music: I grew the most with teachers that tore apart my playing on a weekly basis, that reduced me to tears. Anyway, if you mean that you have a challenge for me I would love to hear it.

I might also apologize for my language which tends to be a little stark and provocative. This is on purpose, an aesthetic choice. (So, incidentally, were the dissonances I used in the accompaniment and lead of my entry - while I take your criticism seriously, "will come with time" is a rather condescending turn, don't you agree? I have found that nothing undermines respect like condescension.)


Anyway I'm about to do some tracking so I'll have something to say about the ones that have been uploaded since when I post my second.


No need to take my crit seriously dude... and there wasn't a condescending moment at all... I'm a lover of melody and you Pat Martino? As for the teachers tearing your playing apart... I don't know if that was meant to be good or the tough love you speak of... personally I don't care for it. I wouldn't tear any of my students music apart even if they made avant garde poop. As I said, I'm a lover of melody and I'll milk it till its dry... but that's me.

"comes with time" I think I was referring to fluidity between the lines (as in tension resolution and surety) cos to me it sounded a bit on the "unsure of" side, hesitant if you wish... and that is fixed with time. If that is how you were portraying it, then ignore my comment. My playing is not great and leaves much to be desired by a few people (or majority, whichever is best suited to population). I used to be a very outside player until I found an inner joy with melody. And when I say used to... I mean I literally blanked it out of my brain so I never get to play like that again. Outside notes have their place... but so does fluidity and movement of a piece, imo. Even listening to Ornette Coleman, there is form to madness... I prefer the musings of Miles and Coltrane on gentler tracks...

So none of this is to be taken seriously/personally (I really haven't given any insults yet... but the day is young, lol.. kidding)... this is for people to express themselves and show how they attack phrasing personally... as well as a shot for the questioners to take an "expedition". So I really see this as coming to terms with how people play, which is why I won't give a negative crit. Its not for me to get someone to cry or chuck their guitar away or something, lol... I just want to see how the personal note choices and phrasings are between the nicknames and the player. Not many have entered this thing which is a pity... because this is where you get to express yourself on a barren track.

If you want a challenge... I think throughout this post it would be obvious what I'd ask for and it has to be a sweet one
#37
Humanity is at its finest facing adversity. Rising to challenge is the highest anyone flies. That's my perspective. It's not for everyone, and it's not for jamming. I'm nice, then. Anyway I am aware that my tone tends to carry judgment when believe me I do not mean to judge, I just hate dressing up my language in assurances and flatteries. They take away from meaning. All my criticism is meant in the spirit of "why not try this? you might find that you like it."

On the stiltedness: there is a certain "clang" I cultivate in my rhythm that is intentional: My view is that the guitar is a percussion instrument and I normally take that perspective over the singing one. It also may be because when I improvise I try as hard as I can to play beyond my means. Just a personal thing, but it means that hopefully it's always at the edge of control.


I had gathered that something a little sweeter was what you were looking for, so this is a bit more in that direction.

http://drop.io/nxkcdxn (the one with the 2 ...)
#38
Canvas... what the hell happened there... your mic blow up? I like the general theme... sounds like a picture of a barren wasteland. To evoke a picture upon playing is very good... so nicely done dude... you sounded a bit hesitant as well... first challenge?

Nick... it sounds African... whether intended or not it... thats what it reminds me of. From 37 seconds onwards it is pure african jazz sound... ie Jimmy Dludlu, Hugh Masakela, et al... so well done dude... nice one
#39
Well thanks. I had just a vague pastoral evocation in mind but the savanna fits the bill. The vibrophone (synth ...) over top was actually going to be a kalimba but I really wanted the warm flutter. I'm a big Masakela fan so maybe that just showed itself given the appropriate setting.

evo. I dig your second one way more, in particular your control of tone through string attack. Wonderful. And the phrases seem so much more free, where in the first I felt confined.

canvas. I love the space you leave (it can be hard to resist the urge to cram in more more more daddy more notes) and echoing evolucian I find it delightfully apocalyptic but there's a certain reactiveness to it that's making it fall a hair's breadth behind - It's either you (and in that case you just need to relax and let the notes come out first) or some latency in your system (easy fix, zoom in, drag the audio region a smidge to the left)

eldan. I dig anyone these days who plays clean and you do really nail that hi-fi sound that grunge (sadly) did away with, like what Jeff Buckley was doing, and I love it. All that shimmery treble boost. mmmmmmm. If I'll say anything it's that you could be more careful to listen to the drums and play complementing their rhythmic accents, like a bassist would.

hockey. I'm feeling the floyd influence on this one, from the tone of both guitars to the big downbeat bends, all very gilmour, and well pulled off. Just remember: the barline is the second worst thing that happened to music (after equal temperament): it was never meant to dictate form.


2:37 - changed it back to kalimba and fixed the ending
Last edited by Nick_ at Jun 6, 2010,
#40
Just uploaded mine to my profile.

Please excuse the shoddy recording (laptop mic ftw) and i also modified to backing track a bit.

Got a bit carried away at the end too
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