#1
Hi guys,

I own a Yamaha F310 and have been playing for 1&1/2 years. But I've been playing mostly songs with electric guitar, so I have decided to save for one.

At first I wanted the Squiers, because they were cheap(150$-250$), by Fender and made of alder. But further research showed me that the Squiers didn't sound anyway better than the Yamahas. But the entry level Pacifica 012(300$) is made of agathis, which is an inferior wood to alder. So it led me to want the Pacifica 112 which was alder, but about 100$ more expensive than the 012, about 400$. (I'm just estimating from our currrency) These guitars will take me about a year or more to save money for.

But then, the Fenders here are about 540$, only 140$ more expensive than the Yamaha. But it will take me twice the time to save for a Fender.

I know Fenders will last me a lifetime and it took 15 years of concerts and hard playing of Eric Clapton before he retired his only from touring. He still used Blackie in his home before he auctioned it off at the Crossroads . No question about the great sound of Fenders.

Which brand and model should I go for in my circumstances? Should I just go ahead and buy the Yamaha 012 or 112, or wait another year for the Fender? Please, I need your opinions.
#2
Just get a Fender. It's not THAT much more expensive and it'll last you til you die.
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#3
clapton's not using MIM standard fenders. They aren't that amazing, the ones I've tried, anyway, and the stock pickups are rubbish. there's a reason why some fenders cost $2000 and some cost $500.

I've been hearing great things about the squier classic vibes, but i haven't tried them. Personally I'd be looking at either the classic vibes or the pacifica 112v.

up to you, of course. it depends on how much money you have, what tones you want, how long it'll take you to save, etc.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#4
wait twice as long. it'll last 4 times as long and sound even better. more than worth it IMO
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#6
Squier Classic Vibe Strats sound good but feel like toys IMO. I'd be concerned that it would fall apart. The MIM's on the other hand are much more sturdy. The problem with the MIM strats though is tuning stability and the pickups aren't great. In the long term you may want to change the tuners/the bridge/the pickups which would be expensive.

I'd say you're best off getting something that's cost effective and sounds good (Classic Vibe) then when you develop as a player getting a better guitar. This is better than shelling out now for a sub-midrange guitar and upgrading later.

If you want to look outside of the Fender/Yamaha range, then Danelectro DC59s are dirt cheap and sound/play great. You won't grow out of that.
#7
Quote by Chikao42
Just get a Fender. It's not THAT much more expensive and it'll last you til you die.


Exactly. Maybe the Yamahas sound almost as good, but won't last as long.

More value with the Fender. Now, time to pick between a strat or tele. harder decision!
#9
I thought Classic Vibes were the same with standard ones, just with different colors and styles?

And why would I buy a Squier over a Fender?
#10
What's an MIM?
Sorry I'm a newbie on electrics T_T.

So I should I get a Squier Classic Vibe instead of a Fender Standard?
#11
Quote by Dave_Mc
clapton's not using MIM standard fenders.
Actually, there was an interview a couple of years ago where he said one of his favourite home and recording guitars is a shoreline gold MIM Classic Player Strat that his family gave him one birthday.


Anyway. If you can afford it, buy a Fender. It is always cheaper in the long run to save up and buy something good once rather than buy something average or cheap now, then in another year be buying something else. That said, the Squier Classic Vibe series really are as good as MIM Standard Fenders with better stock electronics, for less money. If their stock spec fits you then go for a CV Squier, if you would need to mod it though then go for the Fender.
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#12
Quote by rock0n247
At first I wanted the Squiers, because they were cheap(150$-250$), by Fender and made of alder.


Be careful assuming all Squiers are Alder. The Affinity, Clasic Vibe, and Artist series are Alder. The Deluxe and Bullets are Basswood, Standard is Agathis, and Vintage Modified is Cedro.

IMO, Agathis gets a bad rap. It's a bit soft (kinda like Poplar) but there is nothing wrong with it as a tonewood. Also, don't think for a second that the Alder used in a Squier is top grade Alder. Not saying it's crap or anything.....just that you can't assume it's any better than the Agathis that Squier is using. The Std is a model up from the Affinity yet uses 'inferior' Agathis. Go play some Affinity's and Std's side by side and let your ear be the judge.

Quote by rock0n247
So it led me to want the Pacifica 112 which was alder, but about 100$ more expensive than the 012, about 400$.


The 112V differs from the 012 in more than just body wood. It's got better hardware and electronics. The pickups use alnico V magnets as well....hence the 'V'. Probably also is gone over with a finer tooth comb at the factory as well.....

Quote by rock0n247
I know Fenders will last me a lifetime and it took 15 years of concerts and hard playing of Eric Clapton before he retired his only from touring.


Pretty much any half-way decent guitar will last a lifetime if taken care of. After every show (as well as during) Clapton's tech keeps his guitars in perfect working order.....I can only imagine how many refrets Blackie has undergone.

My advice is go to the store and play at least a couple of each model. Some of the lower end squiers just might surprise you.....
#13
Quote by webwarmiller
Be careful assuming all Squiers are Alder. The Affinity, Clasic Vibe, and Artist series are Alder. The Deluxe and Bullets are Basswood, Standard is Agathis, and Vintage Modified is Cedro.
Depends on the country, actually. Affinity models made for the EU market have agathis bodies, not alder. Some of the Vintage Modified models have had alder bodies in some regions before, important to check if buying an older one second hand. Finally, the CV Tele has a pine body.
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#16
Quote by rock0n247
What's an MIM?
Sorry I'm a newbie on electrics T_T.

So I should I get a Squier Classic Vibe instead of a Fender Standard?

Some fenders are made in mexico (MIM) and some in america (MIA). The made in america ones are more expensive and are of better quality all around.

MIM fenders are decent guitars, play through a bunch of them though if you get one and find the one you like. If you want to save a boatload of money, go to craigslist and find one used. You can generally find a used one for half of the price that's still in great condition. I've seen them like new with plastic still on the pickgaurd for 250 when they run 450-500 around here.

If you're gonna go squier, I still say check craigslist. It's not hard to find a like new squier affinity for 60-80 bucks. I'd go with the tele though, my old squier strat wasn't great and the tremolo gave me hell. The tele's I've played in the store played much better to me.

Never tried the classic vibe series or the yamaha.

One thing to keep in mind though, you will outgrow that squier if you keep playing. It's inevitable. The MIM fender will last much longer and sound better.
#17
Come on guys I don't believe the ones who say classic vibes sound better. The standard fender sounds great on all reviews and amateur videos. While the classic vibe sounds.....like a trying hard to get fender tone... all squiers do......
#18
Correct me if I'm wrong butaren't there new MIA Fenders for just under $1000 these days (model name escapes me here - Highway One maybe???)? I know their not the Standard series which a few hundred more & better but I'd think the PUS would be better than the MIM models.
Moving on.....
#19
Well I'm going to suggest a 112 - I got mine second hand for the price of a 012. They're really not that bad, the single coils are nice IMO and it's versatile if that's what you need. If you don't know how long it will last well... Try before you buy! I don't know that MIMs are that great, but you can always upgrade a 112 as you progress.

On a further note, I think the 112 has won best entry level guitar for 7 years running, maybe more - but that doesn't mean they have to be entry level - they win the award for their value and can compete with many guitars over twice as expensive.

I don't work for Yamaha,
#20
get the tele
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#21
Quote by MrFlibble
Depends on the country, actually. Affinity models made for the EU market have agathis bodies, not alder. Some of the Vintage Modified models have had alder bodies in some regions before, important to check if buying an older one second hand. Finally, the CV Tele has a pine body.


No doubt there has been PLENTY of variance depending on year/country/etc. The main point I was trying to make was to not get hung up on what type of wood the body is made of. Go play the guitars in question and let your ear be the judge.

Reminds me of the well regarded builder over on the Telecaster forum who made a guitar out of 3 sheets of 1/2" MDF just to screw with tone wood snobs. He posted sound clips before revealing what the guitar was made out of.
#22
Get a Fender Strat or Tele (MIM, Highway One, MIA, whatever) they're solid instruments that with a little upkeep will last you until the day you die. Well worth the extra money you put in now.
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#23
Quote by rock0n247
Come on guys I don't believe the ones who say classic vibes sound better. The standard fender sounds great on all reviews and amateur videos. While the classic vibe sounds.....like a trying hard to get fender tone... all squiers do......


Fender Standards do sound better than Classic Vibes. The question is which guitar, relatively, is better value. Some would say the Classic Vibes as they're cheaper and do sound pretty good. As I said before though I think they feel like toy guitars, and I'm not convinced they'd be as durable as the Mexican Standard.

One of my big gripes about the Standard Strat when I had one was the tuning stability. The bridge/tuners weren't good enough (I got mine around 2006). Also the pickups weren't amazing. I eventually sold mine to get the USA Strat which was so much better.

If I was to do it again, I would still have bought the Standard. I think in terms of relative value, both the Standard and Classic Vibe are on par. However owning an actual Fender guitar is what swings it. If money's an issue go for the Squier. If not go for the Fender, depends what you want to do.

As for Telecasters. MIM Telecasters are incredible guitars. Well built, good tone, reliable, there's nothing to really go wrong on them. I love mine and am only selling it because I have too many guitars. I think in terms of value for money the Mexican Standard Telecaster is one of the best out there. That and Dano 59s which I have a soft spot for, and which I mentioned above (fantastic value for money).

EDIT: Also I thought I should probably drop in a message my dad gave me when I was buying my first guitar. He looked at me and said 'If you're serious about this get yourself a decent guitar, it will save you money in the long term'. So when I started playing, instead of buying some crappy starter guitar I bought an Epi LP (and a crappy Marshall MG). He had a point.

If you want a Fender now, and can't afford it, don't not by the Fender now and yearn for one later. You'll do better just to stump up for what you want now instead of messing around with something else. You'll lose time, money and happiness if you do it the other way.
Last edited by Duv at Jun 4, 2010,
#24
thanks a lot man.

with the tuners, ehh do you think i can change them later on to better ones?
#26
Herein lies the problem. Fender Standard Strat - about £300 used or £350 knew (approx). New tuners/pickups - about £150 (or more).

I honestly don't think it's worth sinking £150 into a guitar worth twice that. I was lucky, I managed to sell my Strat for a decent price and got a USA for £645. Unless you really can't get a good deal it's not worth putting that much money into a standard strat.

If you were in the UK I would say just buy a Japanese one and upgrade that.

This is the problem I was raising above: that if you buy a cheap guitar you can live with the fact that it isn't perfect. With the standard you may be itching to upgrade, expecting better from your Fender guitar.

If you want to avoid these problems, buy a Standard Tele.
#27
MIM = made in mexico, by the way

Quote by rock0n247
|(a) I thought Classic Vibes were the same with standard ones, just with different colors and styles?

(b) And why would I buy a Squier over a Fender?


(a) far as i'm aware, they're meant to be much better

(b) mainly because that's what the marketing guys want you to think.

I haven't tried the classic vibes; they might be rubbish. But I have a big problem with anyone who automatically buys a big name brand once they can afford it- it's extremely dangerous, as they don't even have to make a good product any more.

Quote by MrFlibble
(a) Actually, there was an interview a couple of years ago where he said one of his favourite home and recording guitars is a shoreline gold MIM Classic Player Strat that his family gave him one birthday.


(b) Anyway. If you can afford it, buy a Fender. It is always cheaper in the long run to save up and buy something good once rather than buy something average or cheap now, then in another year be buying something else. That said, the Squier Classic Vibe series really are as good as MIM Standard Fenders with better stock electronics, for less money. If their stock spec fits you then go for a CV Squier, if you would need to mod it though then go for the Fender.


(a) classic players aren't MIM standards- the ones I've tried were noticeably better than MIM standards. Also, people can lie in interviews.

(b) that's what I've been hearing, but i haven't tried them.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
Then I will buy a Fender Tele. They sound more soft and less perky-which I like.
Thx for the advice!
#29
what? the MIM standards have ceramic pickups, as far as i'm aware.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?