#1
I just bought a ESP Horizon NT II. Absolutely beautiful guitar to look at and play but I'm not convinced about the sound. I think its got to do with its Seymour Duncan JB pickups. I'm not sure if I can get a great metal sound with them and my 6505+ combo.

At the moment the only tone I can get at very high volume is very rock and roll.

My setup is the following:

- Bad Monkey > Zoom g2.1u (Noise gate only) > Boss Delay.
- Fish n Chips EQ in the loop
- Peavey 6505+ combo settings
  • Presence & Resonance: 3.5
  • Pre Gain: 12 o'clock
  • High: 5
  • Mid: 6.5
  • Low: 4
  • Post Gain: 6


I am currently bidding on a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker on eBay to hopefully appease my need for a more metal sound, but I have this thought in the back of my mind that I should of got that cheaper guitar with active EMGs instead.

Tell me I did the right thing by getting an expensive guitar with non active pick ups, and everything will be OK once I install the new speaker.
Last edited by sensei888 at Jun 8, 2010,
#2
I'm no expert... In fact I'm very far from, but I can tell you this: I hardly imagine you would get a size able difference between a Seymour JB and an active EMG. They're both fairly high output pickups made for rock/metal.

I suppose it really depends what tone you are after. What do you mean by "metal" exactly?
Maybe you should have gotten a rectifier instead of the 6505. xD
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#3
...Or you could buy a set of EMG's and put them in there if you're really disappointed with them?

The new speaker wont magically transform your amp from rock to br00talz straight away.

I suggest you buy an EMG 81 and 85, stick the 81 in the bridge, and the 85 in the neck. Enjoy.

Also, congrats on the ESP, I've been meaning to try one of those, which colour did you get it in?
ESP Horizon NT-II
Schecter Hellraiser C-1
Peavey 6505
Orange PPC412
Maxon OD808
ISP Decimator G-String
Boss TU3
#4
By Metal I mean I want to palm mute open C and have the floor split open to reveal Valhalla beneath me.
#5
Quote by Mopy
...Or you could buy a set of EMG's and put them in there if you're really disappointed with them?

The new speaker wont magically transform your amp from rock to br00talz straight away.

I suggest you buy an EMG 81 and 85, stick the 81 in the bridge, and the 85 in the neck. Enjoy.

Also, congrats on the ESP, I've been meaning to try one of those, which colour did you get it in?


I got the blue one, I wanted something a bit different. How can you put an active EMG pickup into a guitar with passives? Where will the 9 volt battery sit, I need to read up on this if its possible.
#6
I think you need to rout a hole for it.... I think.

EDIT: But again, unless you're desperate for the sound of the active EMGs, you should be able to EQ a good tone out of the JB. I think your amp will have a bigger impact than a pickup change will. Any high output pickup will have a similar tone coming out of that amp. If they were stock ESP pickups then sure maybe change them, but a Seymour Duncan should be great. Lot's of artists use the JB (Like Lamb of God for example). Obviously it's your choice in the end though, just my 2 cents...

As for splitting open a hole to valhalla or what not.... erm... try getting your amp blessed by monks who dabble in black magic?
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Last edited by VVolverin3 at Jun 8, 2010,
#7
I'm no tone expert but your EQ looks like it is set up for a rock tone, try turning your high's and low's all the way up and then move the mid's to find a more metal tone.
#8
The best example of the sound I want to get is when I remember this old Metallica video about the making of the Black album. They are all sitting in the studio and Kirk starts strumming the opening riff to Sad but true, and its just raw power. I just want to stand there and strum that open chord like that and feel the walls shake.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about lol?

Edit: Maybe this is not possible in this kind of gear price range.
Last edited by sensei888 at Jun 8, 2010,
#9
Quote by sensei888
I got the blue one, I wanted something a bit different. How can you put an active EMG pickup into a guitar with passives? Where will the 9 volt battery sit, I need to read up on this if its possible.


I had EMG's put into my old Ibanez years ago, the battery clip floats around in the cavity where all the pots and such are. It certainly is possible, I know that for certain.

Also, Kirk uses an EMG 81 in the bridge of his guitar, so if you were to try to emulate his tone a little more, that would be your best bet for a pickup.
ESP Horizon NT-II
Schecter Hellraiser C-1
Peavey 6505
Orange PPC412
Maxon OD808
ISP Decimator G-String
Boss TU3
#10
So pickups aside, how much difference is this new speaker going to make to the overall power and bass response at high volume on this amp do you think?
#11
Quote by sensei888
The best example of the sound I want to get is when I remember this old Metallica video about the making of the Black album. They are all sitting in the studio and Kirk starts strumming the opening riff to Sad but true, and its just raw power. I just want to stand there and strum that open chord like that and feel the walls shake.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about lol?

Edit: Maybe this is not possible in this kind of gear price range.


I think I have that DVD.
I'm studying for an exam though, no time to go watch it.

But you should be able to EQ something similar out of a 6505+ surely. I've never played one but those things are supposed to be built for hard rock/metal aren't they. I think you need to just rework your EQ settings like one of the above guys suggested. There's a topic in one of these forums that lists a bunch of suggested EQ settings for all sorts of bands, including a bunch for metallica. Check that out, use them as a basis and then shape it into something you like.

Also tune to D standard and play Sad but True. That will certainly help you sound like that video. xD
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#12
I hate to say it but, if you can't get a metal sound out of a 6505 and an ESP, you're obviously doing something wrong. :P Are you sure your tubes are all fine?
ESP Horizon NT-II
Schecter Hellraiser C-1
Peavey 6505
Orange PPC412
Maxon OD808
ISP Decimator G-String
Boss TU3
#13
gain all the way up...
bass all the way up...
mids all the way up...
master at nooon
palm mute
chug
earthquake.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#14
Errr... If you can't get a metal sound with a JB, then you're doing something wrong.

JB > EMGs for metal, by a long shot IMO.
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Quote by jj1565
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#15
JB's are Bright as hell.

Try raising the lows and lower the Highs/mids.
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#16
Quote by MatrixClaw
Errr... If you can't get a metal sound with a JB, then you're doing something wrong.

JB > EMGs for metal, by a long shot IMO.



Huge +1

I can't stand the bland, compressed tone of EMGs.

Also...

JB = very hot pickup

6505 = high gain monster

If you can't get a metal tone out of those two together then something is broken, be it a piece of gear or your ears.
#17
The JB has most of it's tonal focus in the upper midrange and your amp is very tight with a lot of upper midrange. It looks to me like you need to turn up both your mids and your bass. If turning up your bass makes your tone get flubby then use your fish and chips to roll off the lowest bass frequencies. You shouldn't need to change pickups for a super heavy tone with your setup.
#18
(without using your OD i'd say this

Presence: 3.5
Resonance: 7-8
Pre Gain: 7 ish
High: 5-6
Mid: 4-6
Low: 7 , maybe even 8
Post Gain: this depends on how loud you want to play of course
#19
Quote by sensei888
The best example of the sound I want to get is when I remember this old Metallica video about the making of the Black album. They are all sitting in the studio and Kirk starts strumming the opening riff to Sad but true, and its just raw power. I just want to stand there and strum that open chord like that and feel the walls shake.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about lol?

Edit: Maybe this is not possible in this kind of gear price range.

How loud do you have your amp?
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#20
if your really unhappy with the Duncans, get some Emg's for it. Get an 85 for the bridge, it gives a much heavier sound than the 81, and a 60 for the neck.
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#21
EQ your amp differently.....your settings don't strike me as metal.

My 5150 settings:
Lead channel
Pre-gain: 6.5-7
Low: 8
Mid: 5
High: 6
Res: 7
Pres: 6
Ibanez RGR421EXFM >> Maxon OD808 >> BOSS NS-2 >> Peavey 5150 212
#22
Quote by steven seagull
How loud do you have your amp?


I've got the amp at noon. Its sucking a bit at the moment, because the other guitarist in the band is using a Ashton 100watt solid state and is cutting through the mix and sounding a lot heavier than my amp at the moment. We are playing really loud, and that's why I think it might be the speaker. His Ashton has a Celestion speaker in it, and that may be the difference. Maybe the Peavey speaker just can't handle that volume.

I spent all last night just changing the EQ on the amp during our songs, it doesn't seem to do anything at all at that volume, I just get drowned out.

Although, I am standing in front of my amp with it behind me, and his amp is across the room facing me. This may be a factor as well.
#23
Before you consider mods to your amp definately try the change of EQ settings.

Just to throw it out there a re-valve would possibly do some good.

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#24
Lower the Post gain (master volume) and raise the Pre gain (volume, gain). 12 o clock isnt much gain considering what you are trying to play.
Gear:

Ibanez RG350DX w/ Seymour Duncans and an OFR
Genz Benz Black Pearl 30 Head
Avatar 212 Cab
MXR Carbon Copy Delay
#25
other than EQ and pregain perhaps the speaker isn't broken in yet? (may have a bit of an impact)
#27
Haven't read the thread so I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but a couple of years ago someone posted a thread here on UG about how he adjusted the polepieces of his JB and afterwards it was a new pickup. It had a huge impact on it and vastly improved it apparently. He posted a guide on how to do it with it. Might be worth trying out before you ditch the JB.

EDIT: He posted a very specific set of instructions, don't just go turning your polepieces any old way if you can't find the thread I'm talking about I'm sure there are guides on the internet about it
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Last edited by GNR4EVER at Jun 8, 2010,
#28
Here's a question, what's the pickup hight set at on your EMG's? If you say "I'm not sure," then maybe that's your problem right there.
#29
I think there was a thread saying the JB/Jazz combo arent great for downtuning-style metal.
#30
Quote by FrenchBread
Here's a question, what's the pickup hight set at on your EMG's? If you say "I'm not sure," then maybe that's your problem right there.


Playing with the EQ doesn't seem to be doing really anything for me at the moment. Its just all kinds of muddy at high volume I think.

When I first got the guitar the pickups were so close to the strings I couldn't palm mute without touching the strings to the pickup. So I had to move them away, I assume that I should try and get the pickup as close to the strings as possible without touching.

I been playing the amp for about 3 months really loud, I think this may be enough time for it to break in. I will just replace the speaker, and I will let you all know if this was my issue all along.
#31
This may have already been said, but if you can't get any heavier than rock n' roll with a 6505+ AND a boost pedal then you're doing something wrong..

You could get brutal metalzzz with a low output jazz pickup with a 6505 and a boost..

Or maybe you just mean that you need a bit of fine tuning to find that perfect heavy tone?
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#32
You said they sound muddy, well putting your pickups too close to the strings, though increases output, it also makes them muddy. Why don't you try backing them off, and call me crazy but maybe try measuring as well. You might be surprised at how well they clear up.
#33
Sounds to me like you need a little more resonance and presence. Try the 666 method. Works great for me.
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#34
Quote by sensei888
By Metal I mean I want to palm mute open C and have the floor split open to reveal Valhalla beneath me.


+1
Gear:
Ibanez RG4EXFM1
Peavey 5150II All Tube 120w Head
Avatar contemporary 2x12 (Celestion v30's)
Peavey Vypyr 15w (Fantastic Practice Amp!!!)

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