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#1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jun/09/david-willetts-students-tuition-fees

According to the current Universities Minister says that students are most likely going to have to pay higher fees as the current system is "unsustainable".

Some problems:

1: This translates to: Poor students are a burden on the taxpayer.
2: When the hell don't students pay taxes?
3: He says they should think of this as an "obligation to pay higher income tax rather than a debt". And considering the average Uni student leaves with £22k of debt... Yes, it's a debt.
4: Even though the Lib Dems are opposed to this, who else will agree?

Discuss.
#2
Idiot Minister is an idiot.

Of course university students are a burden to any state that supplies government financial help to kids from lower-income families, but it's a burdern you frigging want to have!
Uni students are the future of the country, as this moron obviously doesn't realise, and EVERYONE should be given equal chances.

My highlights of the article:

Willetts said the system – whereby universities charge fees, the Student Loans Company pays them and students repay only when they have graduated and earn over £15,000 a year – was "unsustainable" and in need of "radical change".



He added that he wanted teenagers to consider apprenticeships as a possible route into higher education. On some apprenticeship schemes, such as BT's, apprentices go on to study for degrees in electrical engineering, he said.


So this douche is basically telling teenagers to forget about uni if they can't afford it?

Methinks severe, severe asskickings and nad-punchings are needed.
Last edited by CoreysMonster at Jun 9, 2010,
#3
Thank god I live in sweden...
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#6
"We all got free education but we've decided, now that we no longer receive any benefit from this policy, to remove it."

If he wants students to pay more in fees, he can pay mine. The issue (if you want to call it that) is that too many people go to university. Graduates, traditionally, have paid enough money in income tax in their later years due to their degree getting them higher wages. That's not really the case now because any fool can get into a uni and do some joke of a degree that isn't necessary for their career.

Either way, they shouldn't raise student fees. It'd be yet another barrier against the poor attending university and getting out of poverty.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#7
Coincidentally, I was planning on moving to a Scandinavian/Nordic country after Uni. I'm one of the top 8 students in my year with 13 predicted A*s, so if I don't go to Uni because I'm too poor then...well, I guess there's not all that much I can do - but I'll be thoroughly pissed. I'll write a letter!

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#8
Quote by Meths
"We all got free education but we've decided, now that we no longer receive any benefit from this policy, to remove it."

If he wants students to pay more in fees, he can pay mine. The issue (if you want to call it that) is that too many people go to university. Graduates, traditionally, have paid enough money in income tax in their later years due to their degree getting them higher wages. That's not really the case now because any fool can get into a uni and do some joke of a degree that isn't necessary for their career.

Either way, they shouldn't raise student fees. It'd be yet another barrier against the poor attending university and getting out of poverty.

it's okay, we all know you're talking about sociology students. You don't have to hide it.


( )
#9
Quote by Meths
"We all got free education but we've decided, now that we no longer receive any benefit from this policy, to remove it."

If he wants students to pay more in fees, he can pay mine. The issue (if you want to call it that) is that too many people go to university. Graduates, traditionally, have paid enough money in income tax in their later years due to their degree getting them higher wages. That's not really the case now because any fool can get into a uni and do some joke of a degree that isn't necessary for their career.

Either way, they shouldn't raise student fees. It'd be yet another barrier against the poor attending university and getting out of poverty.


Exactly!

What are we, the USA?
#10
Quote by CoreysMonster
it's okay, we all know you're talking about sociology students. You don't have to hide it.


( )


I was mostly talking about people doing subjects that are more vocational and better suited to apprenticeships but now that you mention it...
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#11
"Labour had "catastrophically failed" to explain to students how the system worked, he said"

Apply for student loans. Student loan company pays fees. Re-pay loans when you earn of £15k. I think everybody knows how the system works.
#12
Yet another of those sad occasions when Meths is actually right. Instead of kicking the poor kids out of uni, stop with all the so-called universities that used to be swimming pools to make degrees actually valuable again.
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You ****ing pwn.

Awesome, dude, just awesome.
#13
Quote by Meths
"We all got free education but we've decided, now that we no longer receive any benefit from this policy, to remove it."

If he wants students to pay more in fees, he can pay mine. The issue (if you want to call it that) is that too many people go to university. Graduates, traditionally, have paid enough money in income tax in their later years due to their degree getting them higher wages. That's not really the case now because any fool can get into a uni and do some joke of a degree that isn't necessary for their career.

Either way, they shouldn't raise student fees. It'd be yet another barrier against the poor attending university and getting out of poverty.

Aye. What we really need is a reshaping of an education system which preaches that it's practically imperative to have a degree and good investment in alternative practical, worked based education, and there's nothing wrong in that.
#14
****ing crusties. Wasting my taxes! RANT RANT RANT!


What the **** do i care?
DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
and
CAREFUL NOW


No man needs a holiday more than the man who has just had one.
#15
Quote by Perfection 101
Yet another of those sad occasions when Meths is actually right. Instead of kicking the poor kids out of uni, stop with all the so-called universities that used to be swimming pools to make degrees actually valuable again.

The new Universities have been climbing up the University rankings pretty well despite some funding problems. We should, however, just stop sending so many kids to University when they don't need to. And it is sending kids to Uni - there's a deal of our education system which tries to constantly drive children further until they're left with 'here's your debt, bye bye.'
Last edited by Craigo at Jun 9, 2010,
#17
Quote by boreamor

2: When the hell don't students pay taxes?


We don't pay any council tax.
#19
Quote by Judge Holden
The elderly and infirm are a burden to the taxpayer. Why can't we just get rid of them?

and all children, too.


fucking loafers, never worked a day in their lives!
#20
Quote by webbtje
We don't pay any council tax.


Or income tax really, since most of us don't earn over £5,000 a year, if we work at all.


We do, however, pay an incredible amount of alcohol tax.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#21
Quote by Meths
Or income tax really, since most of us don't earn over £5,000 a year, if we work at all.


We do, however, pay an incredible amount of alcohol tax.


Booze, fags, VAT generally, landlords paying tax on our rent...
#22
Quote by Craigo
The new Universities have been climbing up the University rankings pretty well despite some funding problems. We should, however, just stop sending so many kids to University when they don't need to. And it is sending kids to Uni - there's a deal of our education system which tries to constantly drive children further until they're left with 'here's your debt, bye bye.'

Yeah, some new ones aren't too bad. What I was getting at is not opening any more, and possibly closing some of the lowest-rated ones. Or at least changing them from a uni to some form of college.
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You ****ing pwn.

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Last edited by Perfection 101 at Jun 9, 2010,
#23
Quote by Perfection 101
Yeah, some new ones aren't too bad. What I was getting at is not opening any more, and possibly closing some of the lowest-rated ones. Or at least changing them from a uni to some form of college.


+1

A bunch of them nearly went broke a while back anyhow.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#24
Well to be fair, students are a burden on the taxpayer. It's not the student's fault that the government was so obsessed with sending people there that they volunteered to pay for it all and not care that it could take over a decade for the money to come back from each student.
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#25
Quote by Craigo
Aye. What we really need is a reshaping of an education system which preaches that it's practically imperative to have a degree and good investment in alternative practical, worked based education, and there's nothing wrong in that.

A lot of people, at least in the US, go to college and drop out when they realize they don't give a damn.
#26
Quote by Perfection 101
Yeah, some new ones aren't too bad. What I was getting at is not opening any more, and possibly closing some of the lowest-rated ones. Or at least changing them from a uni to some form of college.

Sounds alright then.

I did see something else in the article though which pissed me off.

"My view is that it is not a matter of simply changing the fees," he said. "The system doesn't contain strong incentives for universities to focus on teaching and the student experience, as opposed to research."

The Tories are ****ing cutting funding to Universities which has already been making Universities focus less on teaching and more on research. Has already happened at this University even though cuts have not been made yet because research professors do not fear for their cut jobs because research takes up significant chunks in considering University funding. Stupid swamy cunts.
#28
Quote by captaincrunk
A lot of people, at least in the US, go to college and drop out when they realize they don't give a damn.

it's the same everywhere.

Students in highschool are usually pushed by both teachers and parents to try to get into university, and alot of kids, upon graduating highschool, feel they need to go to university to have a life worth living, which couldn't be further from the truth.

I think that schools and parents need to push children towards their talents, instead of towards a higher education system that is both expensive, and in some cases unnecessary.
#29
Quote by boreamor
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jun/09/david-willetts-students-tuition-fees

According to the current Universities Minister says that students are most likely going to have to pay higher fees as the current system is "unsustainable".

Some problems:

1: This translates to: Poor students are a burden on the taxpayer.
2: When the hell don't students pay taxes?
3: He says they should think of this as an "obligation to pay higher income tax rather than a debt". And considering the average Uni student leaves with £22k of debt... Yes, it's a debt.
4: Even though the Lib Dems are opposed to this, who else will agree?

Discuss.



i hope he rots in a pit of his own poop and blood.

seriosuly though, what a dick, he clearly didnt think this one through.
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#30
Quote by metallicafan616
Coincidentally, I was planning on moving to a Scandinavian/Nordic country after Uni. I'm one of the top 8 students in my year with 13 predicted A*s, so if I don't go to Uni because I'm too poor then...well, I guess there's not all that much I can do - but I'll be thoroughly pissed. I'll write a letter!


At GCSE those A*?

Because i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but GCSEs don't mean shit beyond shop corner jobs. I walked into my exams with no preperation and got As and A*s. Now i'm looking to go to Uni and those results are a distant memory.
#31
Quote by SG_dave
At GCSE those A*?

Because i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but GCSEs don't mean shit beyond shop corner jobs. I walked into my exams with no preperation and got As and A*s. Now i'm looking to go to Uni and those results are a distant memory.

GCSEs are considered in Universities when places are hot, plus, he was just demonstrating his academic capabilities at his age level.
#32
Thank god education is devolved. Sucks for any student south of the border though. What an idiotic idea, as has been said the system needs serious reform not just higher fees.
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#33
**** it, mass UG exodus to Sweden, even if you live outside the UK.
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#34
Quote by SG_dave
At GCSE those A*?

Because i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but GCSEs don't mean shit beyond shop corner jobs. I walked into my exams with no preperation and got As and A*s. Now i'm looking to go to Uni and those results are a distant memory.



I'm certain that people who do well at senior school will do better at College which will definitely be taken into consideration for Uni. For instance, the advantage of having all A* over all As may not be huge - but being able to take 5 A levels because I'm currently doing 13 GCSEs (4 more than most people) to a high standard is definitely going to come in handy if I want to go to OxBridge.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#35
Quote by Kensai
Thank god I live in sweden...


Thank god I live in Scotland...
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Champions of Renfrewshire Since 2006
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#36
Quote by metallicafan616
I'm certain that people who do well at senior school will do better at College which will definitely be taken into consideration for Uni. For instance, the advantage of having all A* over all As may not be huge - but being able to take 5 A levels because I'm currently doing 13 GCSEs (4 more than most people) to a high standard is definitely going to come in handy if I want to go to OxBridge.



Everyone in my year did 12, 30 people who were in higher maths did 13 coz they did Stats as well. 5 A levels is over kill imo. I know people who tried it, realised how much work it was and dropped one.
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable


@gossage91
@overtimefitnessau
#37
Quote by Craigo
GCSEs are considered in Universities when places are hot, plus, he was just demonstrating his academic capabilities at his age level.

+1

Just think about Oxford/Cambridge, where every applicant will have 4-5 As at A-Level. They have interviews and internal tests, but GCSEs are still helpful for distinguishing between candidates.
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This from a country who're trying to make up for being late for the last two world wars by being really early for the next one?


Quote by konfyouzd
i think this is my favorite post of the day

Quote by Benguitar2
You ****ing pwn.

Awesome, dude, just awesome.
#38
Quote by jambi_mantra
Everyone in my year did 12, 30 people who were in higher maths did 13 coz they did Stats as well. 5 A levels is over kill imo. I know people who tried it, realised how much work it was and dropped one.


Doing 13 requires doing an after school subject as well as Triple Science and Statistics or taking a Btec subject which are aimed at people preparing for apprenticeships - a great idea imo. I know I'm not the only person doing 13 GCSEs - my friend Henry is also doing 13, but it's still a lot considering how few people do more than the obligatory 9.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#39
Quote by metallicafan616
Doing 13 requires doing an after school subject as well as Triple Science and Statistics or taking a Btec subject which are aimed at people preparing for apprenticeships - a great idea imo. I know I'm not the only person doing 13 GCSEs - my friend Henry is also doing 13, but it's still a lot considering how few people do more than the obligatory 9.



Triple science, double ICT, Maths, Stats, English Language, English Lit, RE, History, DT and Music. 13 isn't it? Unless my maths has got that bad


EDIT: I'm not having a go. If you get all A*s, then fair play, that's a lot better than I did. But I wouldn't rely too much on the fact you have 13.
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable


@gossage91
@overtimefitnessau
Last edited by jambi_mantra at Jun 9, 2010,
#40
The university system we have at the moment is ridiculous. Expecting 18-21 years (mainly) to pay the prices they pay for education is scandalous. What do universities do to warrant the fee's they charge?
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