#1
Hello mentlegen please excuse me if this is in the wrong forum, it's kinda guitar related I guess, but it also relates to tabs, and it also relates to songwriting, so I hope the pit isn't an inappropriate place :P

Oh btw, if youre not a programmer this might not be relevant to you

Basically, without meaning to reinvent the wheel, I want to make a brand spanking new tab program (I've actually done one for windows already but it never really took off, I'm a programmer not a promoter xD), but I want one that is VERY much geared towards composition and arrangement, as opposed to the emphasis being on pretty print outs and nice sounds. I'm looking for any as3 programmers that would be willing to help, but I'd also like it if I can post on here from time to time to hear if anyone thinks certain aspects of it are shit or if anyone thinks of a feature I've missed.

Some of the programs out there already are great for downloading and learning stuff and printing stuff out but when you want to do something like try the riffs in a different order, or put in a key change in the middle that would effect the rest of the song, you find yourself having to screw around for ten minutes or so doing something that with the right programming, could be automated and run in half a second.

One thing (this might be a crap idea) I thought might be cool to have the option to "prototype" songs where you write your riffs in seperatly, and maybe write in "transitional" parts that describe how to move from any given riff to another. Then you could try out loads of arrangements by just drag'n'dropping the riffs around in a DAW style editor.

It should be able to quickly identify what scales a selection of notes is based on and allow you to change that by just selecting a different scale, maybe we could even have a scripting system of some kind so that loads of people can contribute "modifiers" (transposition, melody inversion, shift several bars of rhythm off by half a beat, etc) to alter the selected notes in a certain way (like photoshop filters), rather than just a handful of simple hard coded ones.

I'd also like some kind of quick chord input system in there, but something that extends a bit beyond whats in current software; some kind of tool that can add chords for you, but that extends to borrowed chords , and can show you options for close (or far) voice leadings.

It should also, unlike some of the newer programs *AHEM*GUITAR PRO 6*MMM*, run like shit off a shovel with no delay when youre tabbing stuff, pasting loads of bars in etc.

It's all just conceptual at the moment, but I'd love to hear what people think of the ideas I've got, hear if theres any other tools people would really like to have when theyre writing, and I really really could use some help writing this so that we can use it this side of christmas :P

The software will be written with actionscript 3 and run on the adobe air framework so as to be cross platform, and despite the avm2 not being the quickest option around for audio playback, flash will lend itself well to making a tab/score editing interface quickly. It will be TOTALLY FREE and open source. If anyone reading this knows anything about as3 then please please speak to me lets collaborate and make a program that will pwn face.
#2
I'm not a programmer or anything, but I have to say I like the idea. Keep it up!
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#3
I think GP5 is pretty good, kinda fits those criteria. GP6 is shit tho
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#4
Quote by lmlPezlml

The software will be written with actionscript 3 and run on the adobe air framework so as to be cross platform, and despite the avm2 not being the quickest option around for audio playback, flash will lend itself well to making a tab/score editing interface quickly.


Actionscript. Blah. I don't want to sound like Steve Jobs, but flash is seriously limited for what you're trying to do.

Why not do it with, say, OpenAL and Qt?
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#5
i think you missed the point a bit dude, yeah guitar pro is adequate but i want something *fast*.

Say for example i have a song in A minor and i want to make the middle in C, just to try it out, I have to save the tab, save the tab under a different name, open the old tab, transpose the old tab +3, copy all tracks from the old tab into the new tab.

this is also crap if you just want to *quickly* try something in a different mode, just to hear how it sounds. you have to spend half an hour retabbing it. usually when im writing i can try this stuff out, but it would be nice. Chopping and changing bits around in guitar pro is a nightmare as well, could be made a lot easier
#6
I'd not use it. All those shortcuts would probably tempt me to write lazily.
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#7
@ marius ive done a bit of work with c++ and openAL before, but i really dont think mega serious audio pushing power is needed for what im trying to do, ive done a wav sample midi player in as3 that works perfectly well with a whole load of tracks, in fact i recon that the ONLY limitation as3 presents is in the lack of power here, but its an easy one to overcome

excuse my ignorance cause i really dont know much about qt, but isnt that just a GUI / forms type thing? how easy would it be to code a music score displayer/editor for qt? as3s graphical nature makes it really really easy to lay out this kind of thing
#8
I agree with that Mad Marius fellow. Flash is good for smaller things like games and so on, but with more complex programming and processes it gets alot less friendly. Imagine how much resources it eats up just playing youtube videos and apply that to the scale you're going for, it's going to be quite far from fast. There's a reason you don't see a lot of flash programs beyond simple utilities.
#9
@ 601210 air is actually really good for resource management, but I think a lot of programmers complain because they think the garbage collector is magical and they dont know how to get it to release stuff properly.. that being said can you recommend any other api's that would be good for this kind of thing?
#10
Quote by lmlPezlml
@ marius ive done a bit of work with c++ and openAL before, but i really dont think mega serious audio pushing power is needed for what im trying to do, ive done a wav sample midi player in as3 that works perfectly well with a whole load of tracks, in fact i recon that the ONLY limitation as3 presents is in the lack of power here, but its an easy one to overcome

excuse my ignorance cause i really dont know much about qt, but isnt that just a GUI / forms type thing? how easy would it be to code a music score displayer/editor for qt? as3s graphical nature makes it really really easy to lay out this kind of thing


Qt is much more than GUI and forms. But it has quite powerful 2D graphics capabilities. How difficult it would be strongly depends on how experienced you are with object-oriented programming under c++. In higher-level computer graphics research for instance, Qt is widely used for GUIs and interactive stuff.

The kind of application you're describing would be rather medium scale, and I personally would not use flash for something like that. There are other libraries out there, such as the one I suggested, that, even though more complicated than flash + actionscript, would yeld better performance and stability.
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#11
yeah my native language is c++, its funny really cause i shyed away from using that on this project cause i know how much of a headache c++ can become :P especially when it comes to releasing it (gotta build all the libraries correctly then build the app correctly. .aaaaaa) ill check out qt though
#12
oh and the other good reason to use as3 is I've already got loads of libraries together for doing stuff like this, midi to audio, comparing scales and chords in different keys, voice leading, displaying score etc
#13
Quote by lmlPezlml
@ 601210 air is actually really good for resource management, but I think a lot of programmers complain because they think the garbage collector is magical and they dont know how to get it to release stuff properly.. that being said can you recommend any other api's that would be good for this kind of thing?


Actually, I think I may have to agree with lmlPezlml.
BBC Desktop iPlayer use AIR , and as a big program that is, it works very nicely.
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#14
Quote by lmlPezlml
oh and the other good reason to use as3 is I've already got loads of libraries together for doing stuff like this, midi to audio, comparing scales and chords in different keys, voice leading, displaying score etc


OK, use whatever you're comfortable with. I was just making a suggestion.
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#15
dude, that's fucking awesome!

good luck. Any way to port it to mac?
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#16
Quote by fearofthemark
dude, that's fucking awesome!

good luck. Any way to port it to mac?


one of the plus points of using as3/air is that yes, it will run on windows, mac and linux without me needing to even change anything spam all your programmer friends i need help to make the ultimate guitar ultimate tab program!!
#17
Actually, while we're on the subject, is there any way to develop plugins/addons for Guitar Pro? Cause there's a few things that could use improvement.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#18
Quote by fearofthemark
dude, that's fucking awesome!

good luck. Any way to port it to mac?

If he uses Adobe air, it won't need ported. It will just work(because of Adobe air, not because of Apple's slogans).
#19
Quote by MightyAl
If he uses Adobe air, it won't need ported. It will just work(because of Adobe air, not because of Apple's slogans).


Awesome!

Quote by lmlPezlml
one of the plus points of using as3/air is that yes, it will run on windows, mac and linux without me needing to even change anything spam all your programmer friends i need help to make the ultimate guitar ultimate tab program!!


I don't have any programmer friends

we just play Pokemon and Metallica..
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#20
Quote by Mad Marius
Actually, while we're on the subject, is there any way to develop plugins/addons for Guitar Pro? Cause there's a few things that could use improvement.


probably not, i expect they keep their code under pretty tight wraps
#21
I've always thought it would be cool to have a tab program that if you put in a recording of, say some music you played a long time ago, but forgot how to play, that it would automatically tab out the music. Haha.
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#24
Quote by CGB89
I've always thought it would be cool to have a tab program that if you put in a recording of, say some music you played a long time ago, but forgot how to play, that it would automatically tab out the music. Haha.

That would be really cool; it's virtually impossible right now unless it was a midi track
#25
Quote by MightyAl



holy shit it's real!


I like the idea of prototypes btw - brilliant idea, i'm sorry I can't help. I'll friend you to keep track of your progress I guess.

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