#1
What scales do blind guardian use? i'll post some of their riffs so some of you might be able to tell me what scale/s they are from

|-12--------------------------|-13-------------------------------------|
|----12-----------------------|----13----------------------------------|
|-------12-11-12-11-9-(9)\----|-------14-10-14-9-10-(10)\----|
|-----------------------------|-------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------|-------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------|-------------------------------------------|

By The Gates Of Moria

|-----------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------13----------|
|-------------------------------14-------------|
|-15-13----13-15-16-15-13----15-------|
|-------16----------------15-----------------|
|----------------------------------------------|

Nightfall


|---------------11-13----11--------|----------------------------||
|-14-------14-------14------13---|-------11-13-14-13--o||
|--------------------------------|-13---------------------------||
|--------------------------------|-------------------------------||
|--------------------------------|------------------------------o||
|--------------------------------|-------------------------------||

Mirror Mirror


Hopefully someone will know what scale/s some of these are based on
#2
i honestly couldn't give you a definitive answer for any of these without any context.

i mean, i can give you an answer using the following context:

1) blind guardian sounds like a metal band
2) rule #1 of metal - never write a song that is not in the minor key based off of the lowest open string

so assuming we're in standard, that first one is E minor with an F in the second bar. but honestly, that's the best i can do without seeing where/how it fits in with the rest of the song.

the only real answer i can give you is to start studying theory. even if you do learn what scale these licks are derived from, if you don't know how to apply it well you won't get much use out of it.

oh, and listen. do a lot of listening.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#3
So, could you reccomend any scales for me to learn that are commonplace in melodic, european metal?


and i say that because i find that the americans are highly skilled at rehashing the same tripe over and over
#4
Blind Guardian scales? You can't be serious... or are you?

Here's a run down for you...

The major scale

The minor system - melodic minor and harmonic minor... more melodic than harmonic.

Why would you think they use different scales? Cos they make great music? Arguably, yes.. they kick Slayers ass in melody and catchy rhythms... but they invariably make music. BG's is just better imo. No different scales.

If you ever plan to write like this... I sincerely hope you have a vocalist as brilliant as theirs... Hansi Kürsch would be very hard to replicate in timbre and pitch...

The guitarists rely on melody... and if you don't have it... you won't get the sound. It can be learned, yes... but you may have to listen to bands that helped get them that knowledge

Edit: Oh... I forgot... there's another mysterious scale... the pentatonic
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 10, 2010,
#5
Quote by AeolianWolf

i mean, i can give you an answer using the following context:

1) blind guardian sounds like a metal band
2) rule #1 of metal - never write a song that is not in the minor key based off of the lowest open string



No. Hell, I can't think of any good band that follows that rule - perhaps some crap thrash metal bands perhaps.

Here's a tip for you (TS): learn scales and then you won't need to know names of the scales but what scale you like to get a Blind Guardian sound.

Granted, for power metal it's usually minor scale and major scale choruses with whatever the fits for the solo...but very fast.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#6
Well, 99% of metal bands that dont play chromatic use one the minor scales.
Usualy it tends to be melodic, harmonic and natural minor.

Some genres like powermetal and folkmetal like to use major too.

Dont worry too much about the scales though.. harmonizing guitars, upbeat rythm and syncopated palm mutes are probably more important to get that sound.
#7
PROTIP: Most of their stuff is in a double harmonic scale.
love is love // return to dust
#8
The minor system - melodic minor and harmonic minor... more melodic than harmonic.
#9
Quote by kinah6
The minor system - melodic minor and harmonic minor... more melodic than harmonic.

Did it take you long to type that or was it simply a cut and paste job?
#10
I don't know why everybody's being so mean to you.
Power/folk/symphonic metal uses a lot of the major scale. Learn all the diatonic modes, and your harmonic minor stuff.
Yksinään hän vaeltaa mis' varjot lankeaa
Halki usvan ja roudan vain teräs seuranaan
Sydämensä kylmä on kuin maa routainen
Mutta silmissään viha polttava kuin kiuas tulinen
#11
Quote by HailSlaytan
I don't know why everybody's being so mean to you.
Power/folk/symphonic metal uses a lot of the major scale. Learn all the diatonic modes, and your harmonic minor stuff.


I think it's because there's a couple of these threads everyday. "What scale does (insert metal band here) use?"
#12
Quote by aCloudConnected
I think it's because there's a couple of these threads everyday. "What scale does (insert metal band here) use?"


Or even worse, "what are the metal scales / chords?"
As if there are chords or scale that are only for playing metal, or that are unmetal.

After posts like that, I always imagine someone going "yeah, this song is in
the key of F# Metal" or "how do you play the bE-Metal7th chord?"
#13
Wow, I haven't heard Blind Guardian in awhile. BG uses the major scale modes and nothing really out of the ordinary. Crazy scales aren't the essence of Blind Guardian's playing. Blind Guardian writes memorable melodies, and the "secret" to how they do that is that they (tastefully) use arpeggios.

Your tabs got all jumbled up but if that part is what part I think it is, it's an arp. Learn all the triadic arps and all the major seventh, dominant seventh, minor seventh, and minor 7b5 arps, then go learn all the other funky arps. Sound daunting? It is. Pick one a day and practice it perfectly for 15 minutes. In a month, you'll practically have them all down.
Last edited by STONESHAKER at Jun 13, 2010,
#14
Quote by HailSlaytan
I don't know why everybody's being so mean to you.
Power/folk/symphonic metal uses a lot of the major scale. Learn all the diatonic modes, and your harmonic minor stuff.



I receive flak from every sub forum that i post on,

Thanks for the advice though, i know all of the major mode patterns, Ionian,Dorian,Phrygian etc

I know an harmonic Hungarian c minor scales though! those are some weird intervals right there, but good for a kind of Nile-ish sounding melody
#15
Okay so here's an idea. You should analyze some of their songs and see for yourself just what they're doing. It looks like you were up to that in the first post but you were looking for the wrong thing -- rarely does the scale make a huge difference in sound. It does matter, definitely, but you will find that everything from Cyrus to Death uses the same scale so clearly there must be more to it.

First find the key of a song. Find what notes they seem to really like to hit and determine where they are in the scale (5 bucks says one of them is a b5). Look for augmented 2nds and determine if they're from harmonic minor or phrygian dominant (or other places but those would be the most common BY FAR). etc. etc.
i don't know why i feel so dry