"Speciesism is unjustifiable in a similar or identical way as racism or sexism."

Poll: Read OP.
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View poll results: Read OP.
I agree.
82 21%
I disagree.
199 51%
I somewhat agree.
87 22%
I'm unsure.
23 6%
Voters: 391.
Page 1 of 7
#1
Do you agree with the following statement: "Speciesism is unjustifiable in a similar or maybe even identical sense that racism or sexism is unjustifiable."

Definitions for Speciesism:
Quote by Wikipedia
Speciesism is the assigning of different values or rights to beings on the basis of their species membership. The term was created by British psychologist Richard D. Ryder in 1973 to denote a prejudice against non-humans based on physical differences that are given moral value. "I use the word 'speciesism'," he wrote in 1975, "to describe the widespread discrimination that is practised by man against other species ... Speciesism is discrimination, and like all discrimination it overlooks or underestimates the similarities between the discriminator and those discriminated against."
Quote by Merriam Webster Online Dictionary
prejudice or discrimination based on species; especially : discrimination against animals
Human intolerance or discrimination on the basis of species, especially as manifested by cruelty to or exploitation of animals.
Wait For Poll.

And I like The Pit talking about topics regarding animal rights and shit. Since The Pit's pretty liberal, the differences in opinion on this subject vary more than other subjects (like marijuana legalization, which the vast majority of Pit users are in favor of).
Last edited by The Madcap at Jun 12, 2010,
#2
But they're not the same species so we're allowed to do this shit to them.
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#3
Of course it's not justifiable.

Quote by Momentosis
But they're not the same species so we're allowed to do this shit to them.

Like step on them and watch them look around with their guts out, right?
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Last edited by RockGuitar92 at Jun 12, 2010,
#5
Quote by Momentosis
But they're not the same species so we're allowed to do this shit to them.


Hasn't stopped you in the past


I'm sorry, that was uncalled for
#6
No, it's not justifable. I strongly support animal rights and such. Of course we are going to kill them and eat them, that's nature, but I don't beleive we should do any more harm than we have to.

I'm such a pussy with this topic that I don't ever kill bugs or other animals. I catch them and let them outside. I know, it's sad.
#7



But yeah.

I'm one of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

I don't like killing animals. It just happens for some reason. I hate killing bugs as well.
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#8
Quote by Momentosis



But yeah.

I'm one of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

I don't like killing animals. It just happens for some reason. I hate killing bugs as well.



#9
I'm willing to bet that the poll results won't be accurate because people will let what they think about animals skew the results.

ex. "I have no problem killing animals, so I disagree."
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#10
It's not similiar, it's just, there's a right and wrong way to go about it. Using an animal in a study I think is 300 times less worse than being cruel to animal just because. And testing on animals is a safer way to do things.

I'm not saying it's right, but at the same time..it isn't wrong.

Do you guys see where I'm coming from?
#11
Do you mean that it would be wrong to eat other animals? Because I think that is perfectly justifiable. You wouldn't tell a lion that he can't eat a zebra. Don't tell me that I can't eat a cow.


If you mean things like abusing animals, no, I don't think you can justify that.


Of course then some will argue that the way we kill animals to consume them constitutes abuse, but we have to do it somehow.
#12
I find animals quite tasty

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#13
we read things similar to this at one point in my philosophy class last semester.

it's interesting enough and unjustifiable imo , but i don't think there'll be a day where i'll come across a grizzly bear and refuse to shoot it in the face out of fear of being called a specieist or something

of course, i would shoot it in the face out of fear it would tear me apart limb from limb...

honestly i don't think there are many people who violently hate certain types of animals (unless you count mosquitoes as an animal) but it's very true that humans think they're better than other animals...hell humans think they're better than other humans right?
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#15
I don't care about animals. I don't believe in hurting them, but I certainly don't think they're entitled to the same rights as humans.

If I had a choice between saving 1 human and 1 dog, I'd save the human. If I had a choice between 1 human and 10 dogs, I'd still save the human.
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#16
I think it's frankly ridiculous to compare a person to a snail, or even a dog to a fly, and say that they should be equal in all ways.
#17
Quote by Abunai X
I don't care about animals. I don't believe in hurting them, but I certainly don't think they're entitled to the same rights as humans.

If I had a choice between saving 1 human and 1 dog, I'd save the human. If I had a choice between 1 human and 10 dogs, I'd still save the human.

That's speciesism, alright.
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#18
All things being equal, I would agree. However, it's much more likely I'm just hungry and not competing with a chicken for my next promotion.
#19
I'm not saying it's 100% right. But IMO it has to be that way for us to survive.
#20
Quote by daytripper75
Do you mean that it would be wrong to eat other animals?
I'm not gonna say that exactly (since I support eating meat under certain context, although I think it's wrong for people in today's modern, western, civilised, etc. society.), I personally would just say that speciesism is most commonly in people this assumption that the differences between humans and animals allow justification for causing suffering to animals, and that their suffering is of less moral worth than ours.
#21
I somewhat agree. The fact that we are all on this earth just the same as the next guy, we don't have the right to boss each other around. Whether that be your (black/indian/gay/woman) neighbor, a dog, or a cockroach. Obviously though I cannot stand up for this because we all do it. Just like we are all subconsciously prejudiced to different race, and sex, we mistreat other species. I feel bad every time I see a little spider that I have to squish, but its just what ya gotta do.

hope this makes sense.
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#22
Quote by RockGuitar92
That's speciesism, alright.
It iffy to me. I do think that the interests of animals are equal to humans, but if someone had to choose between one dog to die and one human, I think it'd be better to go with the human, since not only is that against the interests andwould most likely cause some form of pain or suffering to the human, there's also the interests and suffering that those close to the human would have to go through, too, and although dogs also have sentimental relationships, they aren't quite the same as humans. Then the I'd kill 10 dogs to save one human" thing is still a little bit iffy in judgment.
#23
Quote by The Madcap
It iffy to me. I do think that the interests of animals are equal to humans, but if someone had to choose between one dog to die and one human, I think it'd be better to go with the human, since not only is that against the interests andwould most likely cause some form of pain or suffering to the human, there's also the interests and suffering that those close to the human would have to go through, too, and although dogs also have sentimental relationships, they aren't quite the same as humans. Then the I'd kill 10 dogs to save one human" thing is still a little bit iffy in judgment.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you believe in speciesism or not, you can still think it's unjustifiable. You can be racist/sexist/prejudice and realize that you cant justify it. It just seems most people in the thread aren't getting that.
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It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

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#24
Depends on what we define as discrimination. I love animals, but odds are if given the choice I'll save a human over an animal, even one I like. Am I specist because I value a human moreso, despite the fact that I hold no ill will towards any other animals?(Except for bees. HAte those bastards)
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#25
Quote by GizmoKaKa

hope this makes sense.

It really does, to me.

And I'm kind of hesitant to say this, but at least what we have going on is working.

That said, an animal of another species probably wouldn't agree, right?
#26
Quote by The Madcap
I'm not gonna say that exactly (since I support eating meat under certain context, although I think it's wrong for people in today's modern, western, civilised, etc. society.), I personally would just say that speciesism is most commonly in people this assumption that the differences between humans and animals allow justification for causing suffering to animals, and that their suffering is of less moral worth than ours.



I don't think that anyone agrees with suffering. But hey, if you've ever watched the Discovery channel, there's plenty of savagery and suffering going on in the animal kingdom without any human intervention whatsoever. Ever see a pack of Orcas kill a gray whale calf? Brutal, and two species of high ntelligence.
#27
yeah its kind of sad to think about that we, as an entire species, are that cruel and able to do that... but it is natural selection, survival of the fittest.
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#28
I'm confused about the prompt. Are you asking whether Speciecism is unjustifiable or whether Speciecism is identical to racism?
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#29
Nah, we were blessed or cursed with greater intelligence. We cant give animals human rights, because with rights come responsibilities. We'd have to arrest a lion every time he killed a zebra.
...In my opinion.
#30
Quote by Cianyx
I'm confused about the prompt. Are you asking whether Speciecism is unjustifiable or whether Speciecism is identical to racism?
Whether or not it's unjustifiable in the way that racism is unjustifiable (it sort of assumes racism is unjustifiable).
#32
I in no way support animal abuse, but I think comparing speciesism to racism is a bit ridiculous. It's completely natural to want to eliminate invaders from your territory/habitat (i.e. killing bugs).

Different species also have different levels of intelligence as well that are scientifically observed. You can't expect me to give the same level of respect to, say an ant, that I would to a person. Again, I won't hurt or kill the ant if it's not bothering me but I won't treat it like a person either.

As a general rule I usually don't intentionally kill bugs outside.
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#33
Quote by slipknot5678
No, it's not justifable. I strongly support animal rights and such. Of course we are going to kill them and eat them, that's nature, but I don't beleive we should do any more harm than we have to.

Then don't eat meat. Being all developed and all that, we can survive healthy diets without meat. Eating meat causes more harm than we have to.
Quote by daytripper75
Do you mean that it would be wrong to eat other animals?

That's a consequence of speciesism so don't get too far ahead of yourself. Step back a second and evaluate the principle itself.
Quote by Abunai X
I don't care about animals. I don't believe in hurting them, but I certainly don't think they're entitled to the same rights as humans.

Granting human rights to animals is indeed nonsense, but the question is, should be discriminate against animals because they are of a different species?
Quote by Mudmen190
I think it's frankly ridiculous to compare a person to a snail, or even a dog to a fly, and say that they should be equal in all ways.

I concur funnily enough.
#35
Quote by Momentosis
But they're not the same species so we're allowed to do this shit to them.


came here to say this so +1 i think blacks should stick to cotton and women to dishes
Last edited by InsaneBane at Jun 12, 2010,
#36
I think that racism is unjustifiable because there aren't really any huge advantages between races. I'm sure someone will disagree, but, as I don't know much, I will not argue that any further. With species, though, it is obvious that humans are....
I'm gonna stop there, because I see it differently now. I think that animals are actually superior to humans in a few ways. We have all this technology to help us survive, but without it, we would be screwed, mostly. Wild animals do things themselves (or as groups, but without technological help). Even ants can carry things many times their size (don't know exactly) for long distances. I've seen ants take apart large lizards with just their bodies, no tools or weapons. It makes me wonder what we would do, and where we would be on the food chain, if we didn't have the benefits from our brains (reasoning, creative thinking, that kinda thing).

So, I do think that speciesism in unjustifiable, other than "We're bigger and have guns."
#37
I'm always gonna be pro-human in a given situation, so yeah, I'm a specieist (sp?).
I'm not in favor of animal cruelty, of course I'm against that, but when a situation presents itself pitting animals against humans, I'm gonna take the human side.
And who in their right mind wouldn't? I mean, it's our own species!

This is also why I'm very much pro animal testing.
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#38
Quote by jeppelapp
I'm always gonna be pro-human in a given situation, so yeah, I'm a specieist (sp?).
I'm not in favor of animal cruelty, of course I'm against that, but when a situation presents itself pitting animals against humans, I'm gonna take the human side.
And who in their right mind wouldn't? I mean, it's our own species!

This is also why I'm very much pro animal testing.

But that would be like (assuming you are white, since a lot of UG is) saying it's ok to kill blacks instead because they aren't the same as us. the thread topic comes up when you ask if that's on the same level though.
#39
Quote by daytripper75
Do you mean that it would be wrong to eat other animals? Because I think that is perfectly justifiable. You wouldn't tell a lion that he can't eat a zebra. Don't tell me that I can't eat a cow.


If you mean things like abusing animals, no, I don't think you can justify that.


Of course then some will argue that the way we kill animals to consume them constitutes abuse, but we have to do it somehow.

Basically my opinion. I voted disagree though.
#40
Quote by byob_soad2
But that would be like (assuming you are white, since a lot of UG is) saying it's ok to kill blacks instead because they aren't the same as us. the thread topic comes up when you ask if that's on the same level though.

I see your point.

I don't feel racism/sexism is justifiable on par with specieism, since specieism could be necessary for human survival, racism/sexism could be quite counter-productive to that, due to genetic diversity and whatnot.

The point I'm making in my post is that while I might find kittens cute and sharks awesome, I'm not gonna put them before humans since they're just not human. Blacks/hispanics/arabs etc. on the other hand are human, and as such, I'd put them before any animal.


Feel free to compare me to Ashley from Mass Effect.
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