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#1
So as you guys know..I asked for advice on which amp to get in the 600-800$ range..a tube amp. Vox ac30 was mentioned and then I realized their cheaper model with the greenbacks was already at 1000$. Someone recommended a Bugera BC30 which was modeled after the Vox on channel 1 and more after a Matchless on channel 2. I have played an ac30 but never a matchless, so I don't know how good of a clone channel 2 is..but channel 1 seemed pretty good. I liked the sound of channel 2 as well. But, in a way the amp was just uninspiring. I don't know if I'm expecting too much, or if it just genuinely wasn't that great of an amp. I brought it to my guitar teachers house to get his opinions on it and he didn't seem to like the amp too much himself. Then the amp started to sound different...more thin. It should be noted that I purchased a "blemished" one..which must have been blemished during shipping because it wasn't used...but it was $150 cheaper and had the same return policy so I figured no harm.

I ended up returning that amp for what I thought would be a new one. However, they would only send me another blemished one, of which they did not have. In order for me to get a new one I need to up my payment by $150. Being not that crazy about the amp..I wasn't sure if this was a great idea. And am still thinking about what to do..just get my money refunded, or exchange for something of equal value, or exchange it for a new bc30 at 150$ more, or just get something even more expensive. The more expensive option would be the AC30 with greenbacks...the $1000 one.

Do you think I'd be better off just getting another Bugera BC30 for $600 or just going with the greenback AC30 for $1000?
Last edited by burritosaregood at Jun 13, 2010,
#2
i've seen ac30's for less than that.

i'd give up on the $600 bugera but that's me.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#3
Quote by gregs1020
i've seen ac30's for less than that.

i'd give up on the $600 bugera but that's me.


The cost of a new ac30 isn't going to be an issue due to me selling some older gear of mine. Btw gregs, I still love the ec1000 I got from you. It's my daily guitar bro.
#5
Quote by burritosaregood
The cost of a new ac30 isn't going to be an issue due to me selling some older gear of mine. Btw gregs, I still love the ec1000 I got from you. It's my daily guitar bro.

glad it's working out for you.

i'll second the ac15. i'll see if we have any of the hand wired ac15s in that i could transfer to you. will adv.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#6
I'd just be more comfortable having atleast 30 watts. I do agree though that say a 120w tube head is absolutely unneeded...but 30 watts I feel comfortable with.

That ac15 is better than an ac30c2? Keep in mind..I'd probably put bluedogs in the ac30c2 by at some point.
#7
it's just going to change where you get your breakup. Early or late. loud or soft. 4 el84s behave a bit differently then 2 as well. But other then that both amps now come with greenbacks.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#8
Quote by AcousticMirror
it's just going to change where you get your breakup. Early or late. loud or soft. 4 el84s behave a bit differently then 2 as well. But other then that both amps now come with greenbacks.


I'm just not 100% if I should give up on the BC30...it still seems like it has a lot to offer...perhaps I just got one that was a dud..It was "blemished". The vids by jamman sound really good...

But for sure I'm not gonna go from a bc30 to an ac15..if I'm gonna switch..it's got to be to an ac30 lol..
#9
^ The handwired Vox is going to kick the snot out of the BC30.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#10
no problem you got to the cash its no big deal. But then again at 1000 your in ac15heritage vs ac30c territory. that's also a tough choice.

I mean blemished will usually mean open box or cosmetic damage. They couldn't sell it blemished if there was circuit damage.
Try a new set up tubes and see what happens.
Grab 2 eh el84s and 3 jjecc83s.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#11
used ac30 $799. plus a little off for a repeat customer.

checking on the handwired ac15 combo, my guy didn't "check the system" today so i'll find out tomorrow.

edit: also i believe the vox ac amps are 15 or 30 watts before break up, so a lot louder than you think.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Jun 12, 2010,
#12
Quote by gregs1020
used ac30 $799. plus a little off for a repeat customer.

checking on the handwired ac15 combo, my guy didn't "check the system" today so i'll find out tomorrow.

edit: also i believe the vox ac amps are 15 or 30 watts before break up, so a lot louder than you think.


Hey gregs, has Sam Ash stopped financing?
#13
Quote by burritosaregood
Hey gregs, has Sam Ash stopped financing?

switching providers. HSBC was denying basically everyone so they dropped them. i would think corp would have someone lined up soon.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#14
Greg do you love the fact that HSBC has been financing the west for like 15 years and no one ever reads the fine print to now whose lending them money.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#15
Quote by AcousticMirror
Greg do you love the fact that HSBC has been financing the west for like 15 years and no one ever reads the fine print to now whose lending them money.


Huh..bro..I'm 21 and have never had a credit card nor financed a thing in my life..
#16
Some things I've been thinking about in regards to my decision.

Bugera BC30:

-Channel 1 is similar to Vox..but Channel 2 is unique (supposed clone of DC30).
-Can blend both channels and attain a more distorted tone.
-Valve Rectifier.
-$400 cheaper.

Vox AC30c2

-It's a Vox..
-But it's a chinese made Vox (Same as Bugera).
-Built in Reverb and Tremelo
-In a sense not a REAL Vox.
-Greenbacks actually sound good..perhaps better quality than the mismatched speakers in the BC30.

In terms of reliability..I've seen a heap of bad reviews and posts on the ac30cc2 and a couple for the ac30c2 as it's newer. Bad hum or buzz..tubes blowing within a few uses. This is a chinese made Vox..so in a sense, not a real Vox? And it does have some features not on the Vox's before it..such as a master volume..but I like that it has a master, as does the BC30. Bugera is also chinese made..so I don't think I'm going to see a huge difference in build quality between the two. I did use a BC30 before this and the actual build of it seemed real solid. I do feel it was perhaps a lemon or something though..as Jamman's BC30, of which he has vids on youtube, sounded just a lot fuller and nicer all together.

I can afford either..but there is still a 400$ price difference to consider...or even a $200 if I go through Sam Ash for a used one.
#17
Quote by burritosaregood
Huh..bro..I'm 21 and have never had a credit card nor financed a thing in my life..


i was just talking to my buddy greg about something totally unrelated. sorry man.

The Matchless is a clone or more of an hybrid of ac30s from a bunch of different eras. It's 2 channels, the original ac30 had 3. It's got an ef86 which the early ac30s had but not the post 60s ones. It's second channel is 12ax7. It's tube rectified which all early ac15s and ac30s were but not later ones were. It's got a more complicated eq boost circuit then the vox's top boost.

The Bugera is like a cross between a Matchless and the post 60s vox's. Tube rectified unlike the vox custom classics but without an ef86 channel like the vox custom classics.

of course you'll hear people argue about what makes vox sound like vox. A lot of people swear by the tube rectified vox's or the ef86 vox's or the ss rectified no ef86 top boost vox's. all very confusing.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#18
Quote by AcousticMirror
i was just talking to my buddy greg about something totally unrelated. sorry man.

The Matchless is a clone or more of an hybrid of ac30s from a bunch of different eras. It's 2 channels, the original ac30 had 3. It's got an ef86 which the early ac30s had but not the post 60s ones. It's second channel is 12ax7. It's tube rectified which all early ac15s and ac30s were but not later ones were. It's got a more complicated eq boost circuit then the vox's top boost.

The Bugera is like a cross between a Matchless and the post 60s vox's. Tube rectified unlike the vox custom classics but without an ef86 channel like the vox custom classics.

of course you'll hear people argue about what makes vox sound like vox. A lot of people swear by the tube rectified vox's or the ef86 vox's or the ss rectified no ef86 top boost vox's. all very confusing.


For sure..when I did my initial reading/research before I purchased the Bugera, I knew it would be a cross so to speak between the Matchless and a Vox. It is for sure complicated when you get into what makes a Vox a Vox...but I feel the general consensus with the custom classic Vox's..is that they aren't "real" Vox's. That being said..it's pretty undeniable that all Vox's still sound very similar to eachother and still have a "Vox sound".

I'm just not sure if I'm better off trying another new Bugera BC30 or opting of an AC30c2. With both of them being built in china..it's hard for me to accept a $400 price discrepancy even when I factor in the AC30c2 having Reverb and Tremelo. I could also say on the flipside that it's a solid state rec and the BC30 has a valve rec..

The only thing's I can say are worthy of the price discrepancy..which is pretty subjectively valued..is the Vox name. Other than that and the reverb, tremelo.. it has greenbacks as opposed to the Bugera speakers in the BC30. However..those speakers might actually be good quality/sounding speakers..I don't know how to test such a thing really..but they are mismatched.

So..I'm at a fork in the road..
Last edited by burritosaregood at Jun 13, 2010,
#19
I'm one of the bigger Bugera fanboys on this site but from what I've heard the BC30 is easily their weakest offering. Thin and not particularly inspiring IMO. Usually I've prefered the Bugeras to the amps they supposedly clone, but this time the Vox is the clear winner.
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one of the best, educated and logical posts I've ever seen on UG in the Pit. Well done good sir.
#20
Out of nowhere, I discovered Egnater lol...now another option is thrown into the mix. The Egnater Rebel.
#22
Quote by burritosaregood
Do you think I'd be better off just getting another Bugera BC30 for $600 or just going with the greenback AC30 for $1000?


I'll provide my two cents and perhaps it may help with your amp dilemma. I own both the Bugera BC30 and the VOX AC30C2 and can provide an honest opinion of both.

Amp sound is by far a very personal and highly subjective concern when it comes to purchasing an amp (solid state or tube). The problem is that amps will sound different depending on the room they are in, the volume being played at, the amount of gain, the guitar and the pickups on the guitar, as well as the guitar player's playing style. I find that going from a solid state amp to a tube amp can sometimes throw your ears off because in some respects solid state amps are more forgiving.

BUGERA BC30 212
I'm a bigger fan of channel 1 on the Bugera BC30 than channel 2. My videos may sound a bit thicker in sound because I've changed one of the 12AX7 tubes in channel 1 of my amp (the 12AX7B) which seems to give a bit of a nicer breakup. Also, my speakers are broken in. In one of my video's for this amp I used 4 different guitars. Not because I wished to show off 4 different guitars, but because each guitar sounded better for the tune I was playing. You may find the guitar you are using sounds good when playing some tunes, but not so great with others. I find the construction of the bugera is a touch better than the VOX AC30C2. However, the Bugera weighs more than the VOX... so if you're doing the gig thing or running this amp to practice, start working on those back muscles.
If I had to use one word to describe the Bugera BC30, I'd say "versatile".

VOX AC30C2
The Vox is a much brighter amp than the Bugera. I purchased this amp before the Bugera. When it arrived, I was disappointed with how my double coil guitars sounded with it. I found the sound was "muddy". My Telecaster sounded great on this amp, but my Stratocaster could not be used with the bridge pickup... way too bright (however, the Strat sounds find on the Bugera). Of course, after playing it for a month, all guitars suddenly sounded great. Was this because the speakers became broken in or my ears adapted to the sound? No idea, but I really enjoy the tone now. I like the reverb on the amp, but leave it at 25% or less. The tremolo is nice, but I have little need to use it at present (I've ordered a foot pedal to turn it on and off). Like the BC30, you can blend the channels on the amp, but you can't achieve the same saturated level of distortion as you can on the Bugera. I'll post a video on this in the near future blending the channels internally and using an ABY box on the VOX. I should note that if you use a "VOX Saturator" in front of the amp, you can get some very nice modern rock sound and easily kick it into high gear! This is also true of the Bugera.
If I had to use one word to describe the VOX AC30, I'd say "classic tone".

Out of the two, which amp do I prefer? Currently, I like the VOX over the Bugera. Some days my opinion reverses depending on what I'm playing.

If you're not happy with the Bugera sound, head down to your local music store and try an AC30C2 with your own guitar. If the sound "moves" you, then your decision is made.
#23
Quote by burritosaregood
Do you guys think a Rebel 20 has enough power?

my egnater tweaker stays clean over drums, it's 15 watts.

does the rebel 20 have 2 channels? never checked one out.

i love my egnater tweaker fwiw. has more gain than i'll ever need. i like being able to swap out the power tubes for 6L6, EL34s, KT77s without needing matched sets or biasing. it comes with 6v6s which sound pretty damn good honestly. i have a bunch of clips on my profile of it.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Jun 13, 2010,
#24
Quote by burritosaregood
Do you guys think a Rebel 20 has enough power?


I think it should. My Rebel 30 is easily loud enough for gigging at small clubs and stuff, and could probably do medium clubs. What type of music do you play?

EDIT: And the Rebel 20 is only one channel; the 30, however, is two channels, and it's available in a head or a combo.
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That was a post of sage advice. Listen to this guy TS.

Quote by AcousticMirror
my parents beat me for a's. I was like wtf and they were like just keeping you on your toes.

RG1570/PRS McCarty
Rebel 30
#25
What I'm really thinking about seriously doing right now is...getting a custom cabinet made by Avatar..most likely a 2x12 and then either a Rebel 20 or Rebel 30. I absolutely love the sound of the Rebel 20, but the fact that it is a single channel amp bothers me in a way. The Rebel 30 has a dedicated clean and dirty channel but I'm not sure if it's worth me to spend the extra money as the sound is supposedly different.
#26
Different, but not worse. The 30 has a bit more gain on tap overall and more variation with the tube mix knob to my ears. I would also say that the 30 sounds way better at low volumes. Getting the 30 head and a 2x12 would be an excellent idea if you want an amp that's a bit more versatile than the AC30. Of course, you could run pedals to get what you need out of a Vox, but I think that unless you really want the signature Vox tone, the amp itself isn't worth it.
Quote by sg4ever
+15,670,899,554,667,881,999

Quote by CullenT
+15,670,899,554,667,882,000
That was a post of sage advice. Listen to this guy TS.

Quote by AcousticMirror
my parents beat me for a's. I was like wtf and they were like just keeping you on your toes.

RG1570/PRS McCarty
Rebel 30
#27
Quote by ibz_bucket
Different, but not worse. The 30 has a bit more gain on tap overall and more variation with the tube mix knob to my ears. I would also say that the 30 sounds way better at low volumes. Getting the 30 head and a 2x12 would be an excellent idea if you want an amp that's a bit more versatile than the AC30. Of course, you could run pedals to get what you need out of a Vox, but I think that unless you really want the signature Vox tone, the amp itself isn't worth it.


This.

I think I was mistaken to begin with when I went straight for a Vox or a clone of such. At the time I was really uneducated as to what I want out of a tube amp and cost value..and what's out there.

There are really a lot of choices even in my price range. The way I see it in terms of power is..the Rebel 20 or 30 must be powerful enough for a small to even medium size venue...and anything bigger than that typically has their own PA system..of which I'd just mic up the cab and control the mix through the PA. So in reality..if it's powerful enough for a small/medium venue...then it's powerful enough for an even bigger venue when you mic it up.

I'm going to get a cabinet made through Avatar. A 2x12...as far as speaker's..I'm not 100%. I want to have the ability to use different heads through the cabinet. I want speakers that sound great with a lower watt head like a Rebel 20/30 or something similar...but also sound good and can handle a higher wattage head. Is that possible?
#29
Check out what Avatar has to say about speakers on their website. you can also order the cab unloaded and drop in the speakers yourself, its a really easy thing to do.

I run a 2x12 that i built with warehouse guitar speakers. IMO i like warehouse over celestion; they are significantly cheaper and sound better to me. i have a vintage 30 and a GT-65 which can handle 125 watts if it needs to.

i use a matchless clone actually :P and at both 15 and 30 watts it sounds amazing! tonally the V30 has a lot of midrange and treble range. its low end is very tight rather than thick or boomy, when used alone, a great rock/metal combination. the GT-65 has a very thick and creamy low end with nice clean characteristics. the two speakers blend very well and are what matchless uses in their combos, so i'd guess thats what bugera was replicating.

as for the quality of WGS... i prefer them to celestion. though celestion is amazing they still have minor flaws that WGS tries to work out. the vintage 30 feels and plays more like a 20 year old speaker and has less of the harshness associated with a new set of V30's by celestion. im not too familiar with the celestion brand of the GT-65, however i've read that warehouse did a better job replicating the original 65's from the 70's where as celestion did a poor job reissueing the speaker.
If you don't talk to your kids about GAS, who will?
#32
Quote by iheartmy7
Check out what Avatar has to say about speakers on their website. you can also order the cab unloaded and drop in the speakers yourself, its a really easy thing to do.

I run a 2x12 that i built with warehouse guitar speakers. IMO i like warehouse over celestion; they are significantly cheaper and sound better to me. i have a vintage 30 and a GT-65 which can handle 125 watts if it needs to.

i use a matchless clone actually :P and at both 15 and 30 watts it sounds amazing! tonally the V30 has a lot of midrange and treble range. its low end is very tight rather than thick or boomy, when used alone, a great rock/metal combination. the GT-65 has a very thick and creamy low end with nice clean characteristics. the two speakers blend very well and are what matchless uses in their combos, so i'd guess thats what bugera was replicating.

as for the quality of WGS... i prefer them to celestion. though celestion is amazing they still have minor flaws that WGS tries to work out. the vintage 30 feels and plays more like a 20 year old speaker and has less of the harshness associated with a new set of V30's by celestion. im not too familiar with the celestion brand of the GT-65, however i've read that warehouse did a better job replicating the original 65's from the 70's where as celestion did a poor job reissueing the speaker.


Thank you for going out of your way with all this info man.
#33
hey i found an AC15 for $399. Let me know brother.

but if one channel doesn't bother you, then the tweaker would be another good option to the Rebel 20. the head cost me $380 new?
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#34
Quote by gregs1020
hey i found an AC15 for $399. Let me know brother.

but if one channel doesn't bother you, then the tweaker would be another good option to the Rebel 20. the head cost me $380 new?


Hey bro..I appreciate it man, as always. I'm looking into a Rebel 30 head. I decided I'm going to have a cabinet made by Avatar..I'm not exactly sure on the speaker configuration though, perhaps a Vintage 30 and a G12 or with a greenback..or a greenback with a G12. Not exactly sure..

The Tweaker might be a bit low on the wattage side..I'm looking for around 30..but I don't feel I'll need more than 50.
#35
that's cool. the 30 get's a lot of love.

i'd pair a greenback with a G12h actually. i use a greenback with the tweaker and it's great. i have a G12h coming for a second 1x12 cab i'm grabbing.

nice choice. if any of your friends want that ac15, it's at the margate store.

I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#36
Do you guys feel the Egnater Rebel 30 is a better value than a Rocker 30 or perhaps a Dual Terror??
#37
Not a fan of Orange overdrive so I'd go for the Egnater.

If you have a chance to try them out against each other, though, you should do it - our preferences may differ from yours.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#38
Quote by bubb_tubbs
Not a fan of Orange overdrive so I'd go for the Egnater.

If you have a chance to try them out against each other, though, you should do it - our preferences may differ from yours.


I'm gonna get over to guitar center tonight to try out the Egnater. I really wish Sam Ash carried them..since it's a much closer store and I have done business through them before, through Greg on here. Another independent store has the Dual Terror and that is also the same distance but in the opposite direction lol...so I'll probably go out there tomorrow to check that out.

I do know for sure that I'll be using a an Avatar cab with either a G12 and a greenback or a g12 and a hellatone 60..
#39
Quote by burritosaregood
Do you guys feel the Egnater Rebel 30 is a better value than a Rocker 30 or perhaps a Dual Terror??


Never played a Rocker 30. The Dual Terror was alright when I played it, but I'd take the Rebel over it any day.
Quote by sg4ever
+15,670,899,554,667,881,999

Quote by CullenT
+15,670,899,554,667,882,000
That was a post of sage advice. Listen to this guy TS.

Quote by AcousticMirror
my parents beat me for a's. I was like wtf and they were like just keeping you on your toes.

RG1570/PRS McCarty
Rebel 30
#40
Quote by ibz_bucket
Never played a Rocker 30. The Dual Terror was alright when I played it, but I'd take the Rebel over it any day.


True that...the more I post and talk to different people about different amps..even amps within the same class so to speak like the Rebel 30 and the Dual Terror..there are real conflicting opinions on either.

I have heard a lot of good feedback on the Egnaters in general though..outside of some reliability issues..but it seems the majority of those issues were tube based, which really isn't the manufacturers fault.

But like I said..I get really conflicting opinions from different people, which just seems to highlight how subjective the amp game really is. One person on another forum was looking at these amps mentioned..between the Rebel 30 and the Dual Terror...and said the Rebel 30's cleans were sterile and the dirty channel was too "dark"..but loved the Dual Terror. Others have said the Dual Terror was uninspiring and the Rebel 30 was amazing in every way.

All I can do..is talk to you guys who seem a lot more knowledgeable than I and get as much information and opinions as I can to get a rough idea of expectation for each of the amps that I'm interested in. Then of course, check out these amps in person and determine things for myself..
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