Page 1 of 2
#1
I know I'm probably pissing people off, I think I've asked like 5 mode related questions in the past two weeks, but (bear?/bare?) with me.

First question: If I'm trying to improv over a song that uses the I IV and V in D major, it makes sense to solo in A Mixylodian, right?

Second: What are some ways to make the A mix sound different from D Ionian? Playing the A alot? Playing the b7th(G in this case)? Should I avoid playing the D? Advice on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#2
if it's in D major you won't be able to use any of the modes. a D G A chord progression won't be anything but D major.

to make it sound like A mixolydian it has to BE A mixolydian. the A has to be the new tonic or I chord, and it has to be really obvious. you have to make the song resolve to A, and it's kinda difficult to do if you don't understand the way progressions resolve since it wants to resolve to the relative major or minor.
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Jun 13, 2010,
#3
A question, since the progression is in D, what difference do you think using a scale with the same notes but with a different name is going to achieve?

Leave modes for now and work on understanding the major scale and minor scales.
#4
If you want to use A Mixolydian then it would make more sense to start the progression on the V chord making it the "new" tonic. Although if you want the I IV V progression in that order then i think it might sound interesting if you started with the I except with a second inversion or a 6/4 chord. But you wont be able to make it sound mixolydian just by improving mixolydian without changing the order of the chord progression.
#5
Quote by Mygeneration93
If you want to use A Mixolydian then it would make more sense to start the progression on the V chord making it the "new" tonic. Although if you want the I IV V progression in that order then i think it might sound interesting if you started with the I except with a second inversion or a 6/4 chord. But you wont be able to make it sound mixolydian just by improving mixolydian without changing the order of the chord progression.


Just because you start on a different does NOT mean the progression is now modal.

And using a 6/4 chord before the root position V chord will just confirm the key of D major even more.

TS if you want to play in the mixolydian mode play it over this progression.

I - bVII

Keeping the root of the mode in the bass.

So A mixolydian would be A - G/A.
#6
Quote by Mygeneration93
If you want to use A Mixolydian then it would make more sense to start the progression on the V chord making it the "new" tonic. Although if you want the I IV V progression in that order then i think it might sound interesting if you started with the I except with a second inversion or a 6/4 chord. But you wont be able to make it sound mixolydian just by improving mixolydian without changing the order of the chord progression.


Sorry, I didn't mention that it does start on A major.

For reference, I'm using Frankiln's Tower by The Grateful Dead to try to get this concept.
And I'm not just pulling the idea of using A mixo out of nowhere. I got it here.
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#7
Quote by griffRG7321

So A mixolydian would be A - G/A.


I've got another question. There's no A in G major. Wouldn't that be like Gadd9/A?
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#8
Looks like a forum of hairy jerry freaks

btw... G/A means a G major with an A in the bass...
#9
Quote by evolucian

btw... G/A means a G major with an A in the bass...


Way to be condescending and avoid my question.
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#10
Quote by Unlockitall
Way to be condescending and avoid my question.

I didn't avoid it... You can view it however you want to... but its still gonna be a G with an A in the bass
#11
There is no A in G major, so how is it still a G major?
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#12
ok... its a G add9 with the add9 in the bass... or an A9sus4

I still think thats a hairy forum of jerry freaks
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 13, 2010,
#13
"Bear with me" means "bear patience with me".

"Bare with me" means "undress with me".

Use them wisely.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#14
ok... its a G add9 with the add9 in the bass... or an A9sus4

So, instead of telling me I was right, you acted like I didn't know what I was talking about?
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#15
Quote by Eastwinn
"Bear with me" means "bear patience with me".

"Bare with me" means "undress with me".

Use them wisely.


That makes sense, thank you. FYI, I may have meant the latter...
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#16
u want us to undress with you? B..b..but we hardly know you

So, instead of telling me I was right, you acted like I didn't know what I was talking about?
No... i said however you want to look at it... it is still going to be a G with an A in the bass... which it is... dress it up with as many names as you want, be as fancy as you want to be... but its still gonna be just that.
Last edited by evolucian at Jun 13, 2010,
#17
Quote by griffRG7321


Leave modes for now and work on understanding the major scale and minor scales.


TS, this is honestly your best bet for now. Based on your post I would suggest that you don't have the foundation yet that will allow you to understand modes.

Spend some studying theory (specifically that Major and minor scale system /harmony). Get a good book, and follow it through step by step. It takes a while to get some of the fundamental things out of the way, but when you do, studying modes will make alot more sense.
shred is gaudy music
#18
I have a pretty solid foundation. What don't you think I understand?
It takes a while to get some of the fundamental things out of the way, but when you do, studying modes will make alot more sense.

The modes do make sense to me, I was asking a question on usage.
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#19
Quote by Unlockitall
I have a pretty solid foundation. What don't you think I understand?

The modes do make sense to me, I was asking a question on usage.


Evidently from your posts, you do not understand modes.

Leave them for now being.
#20
I'm getting pretty generic "you're wrong posts" so I'll try again.
I'm trying to solo over a song with a V, IV I IV progression in D, and there is common advice about soloing in A mixolydian. How would this be accomplished?
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#21
Quote by Unlockitall
I'm getting pretty generic "you're wrong posts" so I'll try again.
I'm trying to solo over a song with a V, IV I IV progression in D, and there is common advice about soloing in A mixolydian. How would this be accomplished?


That 'advice' is wrong.

It's in D major, so you use D major.
#22
Quote by Unlockitall
I have a pretty solid foundation. What don't you think I understand?

The modes do make sense to me, I was asking a question on usage.



Well lets see where you're at. I'll try to help you if I can.

name the chords for this progression...

In D Major

I vi ii V7


EDIT..

this is why I think you need a stronger foundation.......

Quote by Unlockitall

I'm trying to solo over a song with a V, IV I IV progression in D, and there is common advice about soloing in A mixolydian. How would this be accomplished?


there isn't a way to acomplish this. A person that understands modes wouldn't try this.... because it's a D Major progression.... modes are not appropriate here. if you want to use A mixolydian, you would do it in the context that is appropriate..... such as an A7 vamp and A mixo progression.


that said, if you can answer my question above, I'll try to steer you in the right direction.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 13, 2010,
#23
Quote by GuitarMunky
Well lets see where you're at. I'll try to help you if I can.

name the chords for this progression...

In D Major

I vi ii V7




D, Bm, Em, A7

BTW, I'm sorry if I seem like an obstinate douche, but I'm getting completely conflicting things from two different sources, and its flustering.
"His name is Robert Paulson"
Last edited by Unlockitall at Jun 13, 2010,
#24
Quote by Unlockitall
D, Bm, Em, A7


okay, good. So where is the tonal center?

btw, if you can answer both of these questions, you're in a good position to get into modes.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 13, 2010,
#25
Quote by Unlockitall
I'm getting pretty generic "you're wrong posts" so I'll try again.
I'm trying to solo over a song with a V, IV I IV progression in D, and there is common advice about soloing in A mixolydian. How would this be accomplished?


Here, I'll lay it all out for you. The reason you can't play in A mixolydian over a progression in the key of D major is because...


It's already in D major. This means that the D is the tonic, so the whole progression resolves to the D (or in layman's terms, it feels finished and stable on D). In order to play in A mixolydian, you would have to play over a progression or vamp that resolves to the A. I believe Griff gave an example of this (the A - G/A progression). And no, for the record it IS a G chord with A in the bass. Hence, you start with a G chord and then "tack on" the A in the bass.

So, to answer your initial question, no you cannot play in A mixolydian over a D major progression.

P.S. The people on that Grateful Dead forum have absolutely no clue what they're talking about.
#26
Quote by GuitarMunky
okay, good. So where is the tonal tonal center?

btw, if you can answer both of these questions, you're in a good position to get into modes.


The tonal center is D, right?
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#28
Quote by canvasDude
P.S. The people on that Grateful Dead forum have absolutely no clue what they're talking about.


O.k., thank you. Its just that they all seemed so sure. I see stuff like that all the time... I'm very sorry.
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#29
Quote by Unlockitall
O.k., thank you. Its just that they all seemed so sure. I see stuff like that all the time... I'm very sorry.


Don't worry about it. Just remember, once YOU are able to make the proper distinctions between modal music and tonal music you *won't* need to ask such questions. If you get the right information and make the right connection then you'll be fine.


EDIT: *fixed*
Last edited by canvasDude at Jun 13, 2010,
#30
Quote by Unlockitall
The tonal center is D, right?

yup, very good.

So right there we have 2 contextual things that point us towards this being in D Major.

The tonal Center is D major, and all the chords are clearly diatonic to the key.

So if you play your A mixolydian scale shape over that, what will happen is that you'll hear it as D Major. The notes are functioning in D Major... not A Mixolydian.


if you want the A mixolydian sound you need these criteria:

1) key signature of 2 sharps (same as D majors key signature)
2) a tonal center of A

for instance if you were to solo over this progression, you would be utilizing the A mixolydian scale.

A7 |A7 |Bm | G|


These chords are not functioning as V V vi iv in D major, but rather as I7 I7 ii VII in A Mixolydian.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 13, 2010,
#31
O.k., thanks guys. I'm sorry about all this...
That ought'a learn me to listen to hippies...
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#32
Quote by Unlockitall
O.k., thanks guys. I'm sorry about all this...
That ought'a learn me to listen to hippies...



I posted an audio example in my profile, so you can hear the difference between Mixo and Major.

I solo'd over

A7| A7| Bm| G

then the context changed to:

D| Bm| Em| A7

Then i went back to mixo


hopefully hearing it in context will give you a better idea.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 13, 2010,
#33
Quote by GuitarMunky
I posted an audio example in my profile, so you can hear the difference between Mixo and Major.

I solo'd over

A7| A7| Bm| G

then the context changed to:

D| Bm| Em| A7

Then i went back to mixo


hopefully hearing it on context will give you a better idea.


Thank you. I'm going to listen to it now. I have dial-up, so its gonna take a while, but I'm sure it'll be helpful. Thanks again.
"His name is Robert Paulson"
#34
Quote by Unlockitall
Thank you. I'm going to listen to it now. I have dial-up, so its gonna take a while, but I'm sure it'll be helpful. Thanks again.


glad to help
shred is gaudy music
#35
Quote by GuitarMunky
if you want the A mixolydian sound you need these criteria:

1) key signature of 2 sharps (same as D majors key signature)
2) a tonal center of A


fix'd. a key signature of 3 sharps and a tonal center of A would just be A major.

i think you knew that though. probably just a typo.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#36
Quote by Unlockitall
O.k., thanks guys. I'm sorry about all this...
That ought'a learn me to listen to hippies...

Damn hippies.
#37
Quote by AeolianWolf
fix'd. a key signature of 3 sharps and a tonal center of A would just be A major.

i think you knew that though. probably just a typo.


doh! thanks for catching that
shred is gaudy music
#38
Quote by Unlockitall
I have a pretty solid foundation. What don't you think I understand?

The modes do make sense to me, I was asking a question on usage.


You don't understand how the chords and modes go together. Functionally. There is a relationship.

First of all the chords have to be modal. If you have to ask how to do this then this is something that you need to learn. Second you have to understand the root gravity of the mode in terms of where it is centered. Because so many people think play modally, but the note wont want to resolve at the place it started from, for some reason, and that is because they are simply playing in a Major or Minor and havent realized it. But the melody will affirm this. Their basic lack of recognizing this or being aware of it is the first indication to me that they dont have what it takes to understand modes.

When I teach it at the Academy (which by now everyone here knows about), I say "you need these fundamentals" ...but once they have the fundamentals, I still have to teach them HOW that applies to creatively using them. You may have the fundamentals but not know how they go together, and I would say that the vast majority of those who claim to know, are in the same boat.

If you want this stuff for free then Id suggest Mike Dodges website and work it out, he does have a lot of it, distilled down to helping others get a basic reach for it. It may leave you with questions, but aside from what I teach and how, I know of no comprehensive course or way in the universe that does this, aimed towards guitarists.

Best,

Sean
#39
Quote by Sean0913
aside from what I teach and how, I know of no comprehensive course or way in the universe that does this, aimed towards guitarists.

Best,

Sean


advice and spam are 2 different things. Im pretty sure he was asking for advice, and not spam.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 15, 2010,
#40
Quote by GuitarMunky
advice and spam are 2 different things. Im pretty sure he was asking for advice, and not spam.


The statement is a fact and there's nothing spam about it. I'm not going to duck my head in the sand and pretend that my way isn't viable or even the best, if I feel it is.

Best,

Sean
Page 1 of 2