#1
So, I always hear people saying how "pre-lawsuit" copies of guitars like Les Pauls and strats and teles from companies like Ibanez and Tokai and Aria are very good guitars, especially for the money.

Well, Paul, my go-to guy at a local guitar shop and a good friend, knowing I've been looking into a Les Paul, recently called me to tell me that a guy who was apparently a big Zeppelin fan(That was what Paul said anyway, I guess he was wearing a Led Zep shirt and playing only Zeppelin on them or something) came in to trade in two old Les Paul copies he had as a kid to finance a custom shop Les Paul. He's verified both as pre-lawsuit guitars from Aria and Ibanez, gold and black customs, respectively, and wanted to see if I had any interest.

I said maybe, to hold them and let me give them a whirl. I'm planning to try them later this week, but I just wanted to ask beforehand, are they really what they're cracked up to be, or is it wishful thinking from guys wanting to make the guitar dad got that he used to play on when he was a kid better than it is? Also what the whole thing is about lawsuit, pre-lawsuit, etc.? I'd really like to see the prior, especially on that goldtop(I stand firm to the belief that all goldtops have a base coat of pure sex), but I wouldn't be surprised by the latter.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 73-78
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 2-0
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 24-7
Last edited by necrosis1193 at Jun 15, 2010,
#2
I've never played one myself, but what I can recommend is to try them out and see for yourself. I own some "crappy" guitars that I just happened to like the sound of.

As far as the "pre-lawsuit" and what not, that's got to do with when Gibson sued them for making exact copies.
My Gear:

MIM Fat Strat
Ibanez V70CE
Epiphone S-210
Danelectro '59 Factory Spec Reissue
Godin 5th Ave Kingpin

Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (x2)
Crybaby 535Q Wah
Marshall Regenerator
EHX Little Big Muff
BBE "Supa-Charger" Power Supply
#3
I think the main thing that led to the lawsuit was the headstock design. The pre-lawsuit designs had the same open book headstock that Gibson is known for having. There may be other reasoning but I'm pretty sure that's the biggest. Also I think that most of the Aria and Ibanez's have bolt on necks.

This site talks a little about the Ibanez pre-lawsuit/post-lawsuit copies.
http://www.guitarattack.com/destroyer/lawsuit.htm
#4
they do but ibanezes hollow bodies and stuff they were known for before the 80s and shredding and their explorer copy (IE the one guitar EVH uses w/out whammy) and most of those are set necks
Eh.
#5
1: i don't think there was an actual lawsuit, i think that's hype etc. to bump up the prices. there might have been a very vague threat of a lawsuit (if even that).
2: all the japanese-made guitars I've tried have been at worst good, at best awesome. You might as well try them. I don't think it's wishful thinking, because if anything gibson and fender have the big names. most people haven't heard of tokai etc.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
I've played a couple of the old Japanese lawsuit era guitars and they were rather decent guitars, at the very least. Some of them have blown me away in terms of quality, and some have left me rather more subdued. It's just a case by case thing, really. Just go with an open mind, but don't expect the second coming of Jesus or owt like that. The whole point is that you're getting something which plays a lot better than the price would suggest.
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
Fender Telecaster MiJ - 1986
Swing T-Through

Ibanez TS9DX
Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#7
According to the Web data Ibanez (the only company actually gone after by Gibson) settled out of court (& had actually stopped producing the open book headstock by that time anyway). A lot of Japanese companies made Les Paul copies back in the 70's. The Ibanez ones weren't constructed like Gibsons, the necks were bolt on and the ones I saw hanging in downtown Ottawa @ Weiner's Pawn Shop in 70's (new) had plywood bodies with veneers on them. Tokai's, Burny's & (some) Greco's actually used variations of the real tone woods and Tokai in particular got quite good at copying 50's LPs and Strats.
So I guess what I'm saying here is some of these guitars are valued more for the era in which they were produced and their association with the better copies like TOkai than they are for the quality of the instrument themselves.
Moving on.....
#8
Here is a site completely dedicated to this subject. There is all kinds of info on here about different models, how to read serial numbers, which factory produced what guitars and when etc. The Japanese guitars of that era definitely have a good reputation and a strong "cult" following.

There is a page in there somewhere about the "lawsuit" as well...

http://www.matsumoku.org/guitars.html
#9
yeah, you need to do your research. even the "good" copies like tokai have a wide range of models and prices, ranging from (i think) the ls50 (whose current price would be about £600-£700, its model number now is ls85) to the ls150 or more (current price a couple of grand, current model number ls230/430, etc.)

the model numbers are based on the list price in yen, hence the change in the model numbers.

anyway, point being you don't want to be paying ls150 money for an ls50. obviously enough.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
the pre lawsuit ibanez lp is sexy. My friends dad has one and i love to play that guitar!
Quote by magnus_maximus
You're whackin' one off in the toilet and you jizz on the counter?

I hope you never get a driving license.


Quote by Albino_Rhino
Dude mangoes are so good. Imagine a blowjob, but instead of the feeling being on your dick, it's on your mouth.