#1
I know that the term for someone who plays piano is pianist, but I thought that if I put that, I would just get a bunch of Pit Monkeys expecting puns.

Anyways, I was wondering if someone here who has any experience on piano could help me out.

I'd like to be able to use a pianist in my band at some point; it's pretty rare that any of us write anything that included piano, but it does happen, and none of us can actually play it, other than a small amount of experience on the singers part.

I just wanted to know, if I gave this sheet music to a friend who plays piano, if it would be readable; I took it off of a Guitar Pro thing I was working on. I put it in a separate file, so it would be just the piano, without the other instruments. This isn't a piece that I will most likely use (nor one that I've actually bothered finishing yet...), I just want to know, for future reference, if there's anything I should do differently to make it more readable.
Attachments:
Piano Sheet Music.zip
#2
basic enough. Maybe some indications of volume would be nice. You know, piano, forte and such
Quote by Sooopo
You sir, have made my day awesome.


8/7/09

RIP Les Paul, I bet he's forming a kick-ass band up there to play The Great Gig in the Sky. Maybe we'll all have to use a Stairway to Heaven to go see them play. You know I'm funny.
#4
It's ok. However, the chords in the bass clef have too many ledger lines. It'll be much better if you can notate the chords as a 2nd voice in the treble clef. Alternatively, you can change the bottom staff into a treble clef either temporarily or permanently in the score. But please correct this. It's not fun to read all of those lines.

There are more notation specific stuff, but I've held off on those unless you want to know.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
Last edited by Xiaoxi at Jun 16, 2010,
#5
Quote by Xiaoxi
It's ok. However, the chords in the bass clef have too many ledger lines. It'll be much better if you can notate the chords as a 2nd voice in the treble clef. Alternatively, you can change the bottom staff into a treble clef either temporarily or permanently in the score. But please correct this. It's not fun to read all of those lines.
Could I just move it down an octave, and notate that it should be play an octave higher, or would that be confusing to read?

And please, let me hear it; I'd like to make it as easy for whoever we add in as possible.
#6
Quote by herby190
Could I just move it down an octave, and notate that it should be play an octave higher, or would that be confusing to read?

Well, if that is the limitations of Guitar Pro, then I guess you'll have to do that. However, it's not idiomatic of keyboard reading. They would much rather prefer to see the notes written at the exact pitch intended at this range. Looking at two treble clefs or two bass clefs, or having multiple voices in one staff are all very normal for keyboard players.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#7
And this is why I'm glad for your help; I didn't know that.

Keyboardists never cease to amaze me......

What are the other things you mentioned in your earlier post?
#8
Quote by Xiaoxi
Well, if that is the limitations of Guitar Pro, then I guess you'll have to do that. However, it's not idiomatic of keyboard reading. They would much rather prefer to see the notes written at the exact pitch intended at this range. Looking at two treble clefs or two bass clefs, or having multiple voices in one staff are all very normal for keyboard players.


Not necessarily - though it's primarily used in shorter passages, 8va, 8vb, 15va and 15vb are all usable to indicate playing in higher/lower octaves (can also be done in GP)
#9
Quote by herby190
And this is why I'm glad for your help; I didn't know that.

Keyboardists never cease to amaze me......

What are the other things you mentioned in your earlier post?

I can give you some general heads-up on piano conventions, but they're more than what you called for in this specific score. I'll write something up in about 15-20 minutes.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#10
8va etc can be used but a treble clef would be alot easier - just a clef instead of a dotted line above every bass note...
#12
Quote by xFilth
Not necessarily - though it's primarily used in shorter passages, 8va, 8vb, 15va and 15vb are all usable to indicate playing in higher/lower octaves (can also be done in GP)

Octave extensions are mostly used for the extreme registers, not usually in the middle of the grand staff.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#14
Quote by Xiaoxi
Octave extensions are mostly used for the extreme registers, not usually in the middle of the grand staff.


That is true - maybe I should've taken a look at his sheets before commenting, hehe
#15
Quote by TonyRandall
haha. it sounds like PENIS!



Yeah... got a lot of laughs in chemistry when someone misheard me though...
#16
Quote by Xiaoxi
Octave extensions are mostly used for the extreme registers, not usually in the middle of the grand staff.
If I do end up needing the bass cleft, would having three lines still be readable?
#17
You mean three clefs? Uhh... is your pianist some sort of mutant with three hands?
#18
Alright so these are just some things I can think of off the top of my head:

-"Let Ring" is not too familiar in piano music. Their version is the Ped symbol:


Ped is placed underneath the first note to be sustained and a * or ____| or ___/\ indicates when to stop the sustain.

You can also write Ped ad lib at the beginning of a passage to leave it up to the player.


-Expression markings (f, sfz, dolce, espressivo, etc) are all put below the second staff.


-Most keyboard music is polyphonic (more than one line/voice) in nature. You can take advantage of its ability to do this. Maybe you can have the keyboard double the voice melody in the right hand while filling out the harmony in the left. Or instead of melody and accompaniment, you can have two independent lines that will compliment the music. Either way, the singular line that you have in your score is almost a special effect by most standard. Not that it's wrong, but the piano can do much more simultaneously.


-The choice of which staff to put which note is very important. Generally, the upper staff is for the right hand and lower staff is for the left hand. Also, stems pointing up are generally for right and pointing down for left if there's only two lines in the staff. So if you had a passage like this:



The left hand plays the stems pointing down and right plays the pointing up even though they could technically be played in one hand. This kind of notation consideration makes it easier for the players to play correctly on the spot. Otherwise, they might get confused about which hand to hit which note.


-Each hand can play an octave apart. Some people can play more (10ths, 11ths), but this is risky for fast passages. So if you had 3 lines (alto, tenor, bass), and the tenor line is descending away from the alto in the treble clef to a point where it is more than a 7th or 8th below, you might want to transfer the next series of notes to the bass clef so that the pianist will naturally switch hands for the tenor line at that point.


-Both hands can play fast passages at the same time, but it's very difficult to play parallel lines (8ths, 3rds, 6ths, etc) with the same hand quickly. Parallel 3rds in one hand are especially hard and you should avoid more than 2 or 3 consecutive 3rds at once. However, octave doublings in one hand are pretty normal, given that they're played at a moderate speed.


-To avoid ledger lines in the middle, you can do this:


That's about all I can think of for the basics for now. The keyboard is a really really versatile instrument that you should get to know well. Go to the IMSLP site and check out Liszt's piano transcriptions of Beethoven's symphonies in which he condenses all of those symphonic scores and textures into one piano that 2 hands can all cover. It reveals a lot of possibilities.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#19
Quote by herby190
If I do end up needing the bass cleft, would having three lines still be readable?

Three staffs you mean? You shouldn't need it. No matter how many voices you have, they should be able to fit into the two staff system. Needing more probably means it's unplayable because of the space between each line, so this scenario never really comes up.

For example If you have 4 voices, then maybe 2 are on the top staff and two on the bottom. Or 3 on top and 1 on the bottom, or any other combination. But the most important thing to keep in mind is that each hand is limited to about an octave.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#20
Wow; thanks Xiaoxi!

So the part I have for the treble cleft for the verse could fairly easily be played with just the right hand, allowing the notes to ring out properly (not infinitely, I just don't want them to be staccato)? Or should I transfer the lowest E (the one on the bottom line of the treble staff) down to the bass, to indicate the left hand playing it? Or would it be easiest to just have the stem of that note facing downwards, while the rest all face up?
#21
You don't need to do anything like that here. It's just a single line that one hand can very easily manage.

What I was saying is applicable when there are multiple lines and your right hand is too preoccupied with an upper line that becomes far away from the line below it.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#22
Alright; I don't see myself using any deeper notes, so for this particular one, I may just have two lines in treble. I'm going to try to add a little bit in the way of bass notes in the verses; the bass guitar of the song covers most of it, but like you said, the piano is capable of a lot.