#1
Ok, so while I find this forum a resource for help as far as band-leading or organization, I swore I'd never actually ask for help, except for this instance...

Actually, it's less of help and more of a question of if this is anything for me to get upset about. Here's the story: My band has all original material, and no covers so far. This is due to the fact that we've wanted to stay original and we couldn't all agree on a song to cover (a fact that doesn't keep any of us from submitting ideas for covers to each other that one of us usually turns down)

Now, that being said, a couple of weeks ago the other guitarist in the band started playing a rough version of System of a Down's "Aerials". Now, given that the rest of our members really like SOAD (with the exception being me), there was increasing chatter that we should cover it, or that they'd like to cover it. Now, nothing was set in stone, nor formally discussed of covering it, and I even discussed with our drummer (the other member who has a hand in attempting to lead/organize us) assured me in an online chat that we didn't have to do it if I didn't want to or didn't like the idea or so on... However, the idea of covering it kept getting played (literally) within the band practices. Also, I recently started a summer class at my community college, and have been leaving practices earlier to attend them, so they've had some time to get newer material organized and worked out while I'm gone so I can come back and catch up.

Well, next month we have a gig on the 13th, and we need to finish some of our newer songs to have more material to fill a larger time slot than we're used to. If all goes well though, we will have at least 2 more longer than average songs ready, hopefully rounding out the amount of time we need to fill. Well, remember that cover I was talking about? Turns out, they had been practicing the song while I was gone, and pretty much have it all ready to be played. I have already said I don't like the idea, pointed out that it's a song for 4 members (we have 5-6, with the sixth being an arbitrary keyboard player), and I'd have nothing to do on stage if we played it. Still, I'm told if we don't get one of the songs done, we could still play it for this show, and in response to what I will do, they said "you could come up with something else to play along with it, or just break up the guitar parts"... Now both being options, I still am miffed that they went ahead and did this without any consideration for me whatsoever, whether it be if I want to play it, or even a part for me in the first place!


Am I right to be upset in this matter? Was/ is it unfair?


tl;dr: my band chose a song to cover without me, and are almost forcing me to deal with it.


PS., The drummer also tried to pander to me and said "Oh, I said I'd compromise (which, he never did, assuming he meant to talk to me online about it, but he didn't) and we could cover a Led Zeppelin song, or one I don't want to cover" (He doesn't like Zeppelin, and I actually don't feel like covering a Zeppelin song, but I feel like this is a really shitty way to cover his ass for pretty much encouraging the other cover [even telling our other guitarist to learn it correctly])
#2
Yes, they should've gotten your input on it. However, it sounds to me like you weren't vocal enough about not wanting to do it, and so they went ahead.

It's a moot point though, really, because you have a show coming up, and you need a longer setlist. Anything to add to that can and should be looked at. If it's already solid, use it. Then take the rest of the time to hammer out the originals. Deal with this all afterwards, because now is the absolute worst time to bring it up.

"When shit breaks, fix it first, then you can go about distributing the blame"

As for what you should do onstage, just go chill out and have a beer or something backstage. Might actually be a good change of pace during the show.

EDIT: I see now that you said you pointed out you didn't like the idea. While that sucks, the fact remains. YOU HAVE A SHOW. This one came together, awesome. Don't spend any more time on it, because it seems like its their deal at this point. Blast away at those new originals. Better to be able to pick and choose your setlist if possible.

EDIT AGAIN: Being in a band is all about compromising. Shit doesn't happen exactly the way you want it to, but that's where your uniqueness comes from. Everyone throwing stuff around and drawing off each other. If one person did it all, it (in most cases) gets kinda boring.
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Last edited by swordsofplague at Jun 19, 2010,
#3
is this keyboard player you speak of an actual member or some bum you pick of the street before your gigs that happens to be good at keyboard? Or, are you treating your 6th member and your other 4(-5) members like crap? Man up, play the song, if they're almost ready to play it than you can strategically place it in the set at a time at a more weak part of your set. good luck, i don't see the harm in doing the song...BUT, it does kinda suck when you and your band is not on the same page. (you, as in everyone that can relate, ha)

Edit: although the man above me has a strange quote that seems to be pulled out of the toilet, it is somewhat true. And, there are plenty of bands that are only original material that play the occasional cover (cause they can, w/e). May not like the example, but i went to a Dave Matthews Band show and they played a pretty dank/cool version of "All Along the Watchtower". Original band you guys are, mix it up a bit?
Last edited by FreshouttaMS9 at Jun 19, 2010,
#4
Sometimes you have to take one for the team and play something you don't really like. All of them except you want to cover it. Make a guitar part and enjoy the show.
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#5
Well, one of the originals we have planned is about 95% of my creation and reponsibility, and we've already demoed the instruments for it. Just need lyrics (already have a melody), show the keyboard player chords to play (hence why he's arbitrary), and tighten up loose instrumental ends.


And, you do have a point to just deal with it and let it be a part of our set... I'm just already kind of out of place in this band musically (I'm fine with that though, creative differences for me, if necessary, would just result in a side project), and this was just an incident that really solidified any differences.
#6
Just get it over with, see how the crowd reacts. OR, blow up in their faces at the next practice or something and see how THEY react? I'd go with the first option. It's just one little thing...
#7
They should have considered your opinion on the matter more thoroughly, however, the majority should rule. An important part of working together as a band is being able to compromise at times and to operate as a cohesive unit. The fact that they've learned the song despite your disagreement is a bit... insensitive? I suppose. But your feeling as it they've wronged you for learning new material in your absence seems more like a hurt ego (not meant to be offensive or degrading), or being a bit bitter at not getting your way (again, not meant to sound degrading). The best thing to do is to put the desires of the band as a whole above your own for the greater good of the band.
#8
Quote by FreshouttaMS9
is this keyboard player you speak of an actual member or some bum you pick of the street before your gigs that happens to be good at keyboard? Or, are you treating your 6th member and your other 4(-5) members like crap? Man up, play the song, if they're almost ready to play it than you can strategically place it in the set at a time at a more weak part of your set. good luck, i don't see the harm in doing the song...BUT, it does kinda suck when you and your band is not on the same page. (you, as in everyone that can relate, ha)


Our keyboardist used to be our vocalist- he wasn't good at that, so he became our keyboardist- he's still not very good at that, and I've basically been the one keeping him in, but as of now, if he can't pull his weight, he's out.


And I don't treat the other members like crap. We're all good friends, and as my role I'd say I'm the brain of the band- I know the most musically, and as modest as I can sound saying this, I am the best at my instrument, and I've been one to keep in mind what's important for the band...


Keep in mind other cover ideas have been tossed around, but if someone didn't want to, we didn't do it. Also, funny thing, the whole "take one for the team" was something I got from this forum and explained to them so we wouldn't argue about small, 8 second parts in our songs we disagreed about. I said I'd try to come up with a part for it, or that the separation of parts would work. The fact that they went ahead and did this regardless of any of my involvement I find disrespectful.

And I'm more alienated than pissed. As I said up there^, we're all different musically as far as interests go, and the rest of them are more alike than I am with them.
Last edited by JDizzle787 at Jun 19, 2010,
#9
disrespectful bandmates disrespectful bandmates disrespectful bandmates
disrespectful bandmates disrespectful bandmates disrespectful bandmates
disrespectful bandmates disrespectful bandmates disrespectful bandmates

Someone has to have their first disrespectful bandmates stack, sorry bud.
FTR, i agree with you.
#10
I don't know. It sucks that they pretty much went around you, but it's just one song. I would just do it, but make clear that it was not cool. Don't be a bitch though.
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#11
sure, it sucks they went ahead against your wishing, but like swordsofplague said, you have a show, and its more about what the crowd wants than what you want really.

also, curious, what part do you play in the band? rhythm guitar? bass? vocals? other?
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#13
Quote by TK1
sure, it sucks they went ahead against your wishing, but like swordsofplague said, you have a show, and its more about what the crowd wants than what you want really.

also, curious, what part do you play in the band? rhythm guitar? bass? vocals? other?


Lead/Rhythm, and Bass on 2 songs ( we chose to switch instruments for the heck of it/ our bassist is a guitarist at heart)

And Larry, thanks for sounding like someone I may have known in high school. God, I'm glad I was done with that place 3 years ago...
#14
Ok so let me see if I grasp the situation, You are in a band, your guitarist noodles a song during practice, you poo poo-ed the song and say we aren't doing it. You pack up your bags and go to your Art History class (or whatever). Meanwhile they say oh crap Jdizzle is gone I guess band practice is over, and then they do what "good friends" do when they all play instruments and are in the same room with instruments, they noodle with guitarist on song you poo poo-ed. The guys get a good groove going on said song and feel like they are really connecting, and enjoying themselves. Next practice they show you how well they came together on this and so you come here to sulk.

I say that you should trust your band, the crowd at your gig will seriously respond to an ensemble that is really enjoying themselves onstage. You keep using the term disrespectful as in how the band is wanting to do a song you don't like. Well maybe just maybe you are being disrespectful of the band as a whole.

I'm not saying you should be happy with it, you don't. But you don't have to see it as the band disrespecting you. You said that you are the one who looks out for what is important for the band, well how about taking a step back and letting the band do something by acclaim.

Doing a cover is a great way for a band to have a release valve of frustration with getting new music together, it allows you to play within the predefined scope of someone else's work. The choice of a cover should never be as vital, or contentious as the collaboration of original work. In fact arguing over a cover song to do is only going to increase tension anyway. If you don't like it, get a beer, or take the time to go into the crowd and thank your die hard supporters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKfU5gd7brU

James
#15
I think it's more disconcerting that first you took up a gig knowing full well you couldn't fill the set, and also knowing this, your band decided not to focus on original material that needed extra work, but to cover a song. Nice stuff.

That said, I think the cover should be done. Instead of working on the original song, this cover is together. If you or the keyboardist don't have parts to go along with it just have a beer during the song.
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#16
So, I while I already know I'm going to go along with it, I'm just going to point this out again: We've been tossing around cover ideas for a long time, but to no avail. And as far as new material versus a cover and the upcoming gig, we've had this gig set for us for a while, as it was set up by our drummer's uncle.

The problem is, initially he wanted us to cover 2 hours... Now, why do I feel like that is an irrational amount of time for one band to play? It was brought down to 45 minutes, and we'd be playing with his aunt's band... either way, all of this seems sketchy to me and the other guitarist, and if this doesn't seem like an organized thing or something we'd be wasting our time with, we'll pull out. We've had this date for a while, we're just all new to being in a band and we're all young and sometimes efficiency with time aren't considered.

In fact, this whole month we pledged to just work on new material during practices. Yes, I will do something for the cover, hopefully, but I've never seen a band member just leave in the middle of a set for a song, and I've witnessed a lot of bands similar to the level of mine. I'm not even old enough to "have a beer" as you guys say (although I'm sure you might mean the equivalent).

Alas, I keep seeming to come off as a stuffy guy in this situation, and too many of you seem to be insinuating or interpreting certain things about how I treat the rest of the members in my band, and you're very wrong. Not saying this was a waste, since I will take your guy's advice, but getting it was proof of why I won't ask too many more questions here, and just read instead.
#17
Quote by IronFeliks
Ok so let me see if I grasp the situation, You are in a band, your guitarist noodles a song during practice, you poo poo-ed the song and say we aren't doing it. You pack up your bags and go to your Art History class (or whatever). Meanwhile they say oh crap Jdizzle is gone I guess band practice is over, and then they do what "good friends" do when they all play instruments and are in the same room with instruments, they noodle with guitarist on song you poo poo-ed. The guys get a good groove going on said song and feel like they are really connecting, and enjoying themselves. Next practice they show you how well they came together on this and so you come here to sulk.

I say that you should trust your band, the crowd at your gig will seriously respond to an ensemble that is really enjoying themselves onstage. You keep using the term disrespectful as in how the band is wanting to do a song you don't like. Well maybe just maybe you are being disrespectful of the band as a whole.

I'm not saying you should be happy with it, you don't. But you don't have to see it as the band disrespecting you. You said that you are the one who looks out for what is important for the band, well how about taking a step back and letting the band do something by acclaim.

Doing a cover is a great way for a band to have a release valve of frustration with getting new music together, it allows you to play within the predefined scope of someone else's work. The choice of a cover should never be as vital, or contentious as the collaboration of original work. In fact arguing over a cover song to do is only going to increase tension anyway. If you don't like it, get a beer, or take the time to go into the crowd and thank your die hard supporters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKfU5gd7brU

James


Again, no formal discussion of the cover... I talked about it with the drummer once online, and then a couple practices later I was told that they finished it. Also, we've had 2 shows in our entire history, and no true following of fans at all with the exception of friends. And I kept using that term and referring to the situation as disrespectful because of the success of other cover ideas. And, as I mentioned, if we've been having arguments between us over how very small sections in our songs sound (an issue that I actually haven't had) and have had a hard enough time "dealing with it" as far as that goes, I consider it a huge jump to go ahead and do a cover side-stepping any input from me.
#18
Toughen up and learn the song. Realistically, local original bands generate very little interest without a few covers, and bands don't get anything done by half-suggesting ideas and not following up on them. Good on the rest of the band for actually taking action and learning the song.
#19
Aerials is a fag song. But don't get in any hustle with your band just because you'll play one fag song. Do it and don't enjoy it, but try not to let someone make way for a continuity of fag song covers verminizing the band. Play some death metal.
#20
Quote by Boydy24
Toughen up and learn the song. Realistically, local original bands generate very little interest without a few covers, and bands don't get anything done by half-suggesting ideas and not following up on them. Good on the rest of the band for actually taking action and learning the song.


sure...
#21
it probably doesn't help that you are a "Registered Loser". aye, no disrespect but i'm just sayin.
#23
First of all, I'll answer your question, and then I'll tell you what I think of the whole situation.

Yes you have a right to be upset in the matter, No, it was not unfair.

I can see why you're upset (and your drummer sounds kind of like a tool anyway), but it wasn't exactly unfair. As people have said before, unless you are Trent Reznor, and everyone playing for you is HIRED by you and being PAID, you have to make some compromises with your band.

You have an ego (who doesn’t, we’re all musicians) but it sounds like you might need to check that guy here and there, based on what I’ve gathered about the band. Do their song, but it also would be fair if they covered a song YOU wanted to play. Don’t shy away from covers, covers rock. I’ve always had this issue before, and usually what we do it pick 2-3 covers that have a majority vote. Or, each one of us picked a cover song. You’d be surprised how fun a song you hate is to play.
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