#1
I am familiar with how to construct minor-major chords, but I'm not sure how to use them. Which chords in a progression are best to use? I don't come across them very often, but when I do they are usually the IV in the progression (such as FminMaj7 in the key of C). Can anyone elaborate on the subject? Also, what do they usually come from/lead to?
#2
There's no such thing as a "minor-major" chord. In fact, that is rather contradictory. Minor (maj7) chords have to be indicated with the "maj7" rather than just "maj" or "major" because they are a minor chord (xm) with a major seventh added (xmmaj7). You do seem to understand the notation though so that last part was probably unnecessary.

Anyways:

The way mmaj7 chords work as the subdominant in a major key is they are sort of like an alteration of a basic maj7 chord (IVmaj7 to ivmaj7, or ivmmaj7, I'm not sure how that would be notated). Basically how it works is it takes the IVmaj7 which is built off of the diatonic intervals 4 6 1 3 (in relation to the tonic) and alters the 6 by lowering it a half-step to b6 (which is a simple chromatic alteration in the major scale).

I haven't come across many in the music I listen to but I can say that there are plenty of options regarding what they can come from/lead to. Your best bet is to analyze songs that use them.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#3
Since it's from the Harmonized Melodic Minor, most of times it's the tonic and you resolve to it. Other times it's just used as a color and tension for a minor chord. Take a look at jazz tunes to get some ideas. Something pretty common in the D melodic minor would be Em7b5 A7b9 and then Dminmaj7, or you could even end that as a Dmin triad.

Harmonize the melodic minor and play around with the chords it gives you, they have a really nice sound.
#4
Quote by Pillo114
Since it's from the Harmonized Melodic Minor, most of times it's the tonic and you resolve to it.


this. and if you encounter a ivmaj7 chord, all it's doing is borrowing the flattened sixth from the relative minor.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#6
Quote by rhcpfan93
I am familiar with how to construct minor-major chords, but I'm not sure how to use them. Which chords in a progression are best to use? I don't come across them very often, but when I do they are usually the IV in the progression (such as FminMaj7 in the key of C). Can anyone elaborate on the subject? Also, what do they usually come from/lead to?



this is very common....

Em Em(Maj7) Em7 Em(Maj7)

Typical line cliche in Em.

Sometimes it goes down to the 6th...

Em Em(Maj7) Em7 Em6


Also I've heard songs end on that chord. And the piece doesn't have to be in melodic minor. see quoted post....


Quote by griffRG7321
You can use them wherever you like, normally used as a tonic chord, they have a mysterious type of sound.

min/maj7b5 sound good too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TNc_fHYtwU

The chord at 0:07


+1 & nice example. Audio examples really make a point.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 20, 2010,
#7
Quote by rhcpfan93
I am familiar with how to construct minor-major chords, but I'm not sure how to use them. Which chords in a progression are best to use? I don't come across them very often, but when I do they are usually the IV in the progression (such as FminMaj7 in the key of C). Can anyone elaborate on the subject? Also, what do they usually come from/lead to?


because the sound can be major or minor or even dominate-because of its "resolve" sound..there are many ways to use it effectly...experiment with the chord itself...

move it in minor thirds ...

see how many other chords it can resolve too...example CmiMA7 could also be thought of as an F13#11 .. that opens up many possibilities

it can resolve nicely into GMA7 .. BbMA13

its a fascinating chord

play well

wolf
#8
Quote by wolflen
because the sound can be major or minor or even dominate-because of its "resolve" sound..there are many ways to use it effectly...experiment with the chord itself...

move it in minor thirds ...

see how many other chords it can resolve too...example CmiMA7 could also be thought of as an F13#11 .. that opens up many possibilities

it can resolve nicely into GMA7 .. BbMA13

its a fascinating chord

play well

wolf


Im not sure I agree with this (no offense)... I'm pretty sure it always function as a minor chord.

and I don't really buy it as an F13#11 .........

you'd have 5,11,#9, and b7

The 3rd (an important defining factor) is missing and the 11 is not a typical note in a dominant chord.... though it can exist.

Lets just say though that hypothetically it works (and technically you could put it in a context and say it functions that way though its highly atypical), were still talking about a completely different chord & function.
For instance the notes of a G#m7b5 chord could function as E9..... .but a m7b5 chord is not a dominant chord and an E9 is not a minor chord.

Personally, I think the best place to start is with existing music. See what people have already done with it. Get some quality time with those pieces. By that time you'll have some idea of what you may want to do with it.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 21, 2010,
#9
Quote by GuitarMunky
Im not sure I agree with this (no offense)... I'm pretty sure it always function as a minor chord.

and I don't really buy it as an F13#11 .........

you'd have 5,11,#9, and b7

The 3rd (an important defining factor) is missing and the 11 is not a typical note in a dominant chord.... though it can exist.


i'd buy it as an F9#11, but not an F13#11, since there's no 13. you have 5 (C), b7(Eb), 9(G) and #11(B). even though the A is missing, i could see it working.

of course, we're completely moving the discussion around. if you choose to see it as an F9#11, then it's not really a mmaj7 chord, is it?
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#10
Quote by AeolianWolf
i'd buy it as an F9#11, but not an F13#11,

since there's no 13 (there is a D note in it )... think of it as a G triad with Eb in the bass-in this form there is no root of the CmiMA7..but it retains its quality and function

have 5 (C), b7(Eb), 9(G) and #11(B). even though the A is missing, i could see it working.

of course, we're completely moving the discussion around. if you choose to see it as an F9#11, then it's not really a mmaj7 chord, is it?


i see your point..(no offense taken-i like your style - btw)..i have added the A note ...sorry i didnt note that in my origional post...but the chord still retains the minor major quality and can act as a dominate..using it like this of course depends on context of the progression -voice leading and how your thinking harmonically....
(this was a tip from larry coryell btw...ted greene also made good use of it in multi functional ways ... )

and it sound cool-its just another key to unlock the fretboard-(theory be dammed-wolfgrin)

----B
----G
---- D
---- A
----Eb
----
Last edited by wolflen at Jun 21, 2010,
#11
Quote by AeolianWolf
i'd buy it as an F9#11, but not an F13#11, since there's no 13. you have 5 (C), b7(Eb), 9(G) and #11(B). even though the A is missing, i could see it working.


it could technically work, it would just be atypical. (not wrong though)

Quote by AeolianWolf

of course, we're completely moving the discussion around. if you choose to see it as an F9#11, then it's not really a mmaj7 chord, is it?


exactly.


Quote by wolflen
i see your point..(no offense taken-i like your style - btw)..i have added the A note ...sorry i didnt note that in my origional post...but the chord still retains the minor major quality and can act as a dominate..using it like this of course depends on context of the progression -voice leading and how your thinking harmonically....
(this was a tip from larry coryell btw...ted greene also made good use of it in multi functional ways ... )

and it sound cool-its just another key to unlock the fretboard-(theory be dammed-wolfgrin)

----B
----G
---- D
---- A
----Eb
----



well, it's definitely cool to understand that the chord could function in different ways.
I was just saying that a min(Maj7) chord functioning as a min(Maj7) chord...... is a minor chord and no other type, based on the context.

But yeah, like any other chord, changing the context changes the function.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 21, 2010,
#12
hmm, does the OP mean major/minor chords that contain both a major chord and a minor chord? Because that is basically just either a minor or a major seventh chord.

However, I've heard of chords used in jazz that contain both a minor and major third with at least an octave distance between those intervals to avoid the harmonic dissonance you get from a minor second interval. I never actually played a chord like that, so..
#13
Quote by ShadesOfGray
However, I've heard of chords used in jazz that contain both a minor and major third with at least an octave distance between those intervals to avoid the harmonic dissonance you get from a minor second interval. I never actually played a chord like that, so..


I'm sure you did. Hendrix uses them all over the place. But they're actually not containing major and minor third, but a major third and an augmented ninth (second, if you wish). They usually contain a minor seventh (at least I've never came across one with a major seventh), and as far as the fifth goes, I've came across X7/9+ chords, i.e. with perfect fifth (in practice usually omitted though), and also X7(9+, 5+) chords in some reharmonizations. You're right that the two intervals in question are usually played in separate octaves.

But I believe rhcpfan93 meant minor major seventh chords, that is 1 3m 5 7M. Horace Silver's Nica's Dream, Wayne Shorter's Dance Candaveous (in fact, many Wayne's tunes) use this chord.
Last edited by Slayertplsko at Jun 22, 2010,
#14
Yeah I meant chords with a minor 3rd and a Major7. I'm starting to use them more thanks to the help you guys are giving me! They sound spooky... I find it a great way to end a song, without resolving it.
#16
You also hear them a fair bit in Minor Blues.

Major Minor chords are very cool, and they're actually fairly easy to use as a passing chord. The real trick is how you get into the chord or out of the chord. Usually I'll treat the 7th as a part of an ascending or descending melody.

A few chord progressions as examples.

Em, Em7M, Em7, A7, C7 B7, A7, B7

This is probably the most common progression that includes a m7M chord, and it's pretty simple to see what's going on too.

For the first three chords, all that's happening is you're dropping the 7th a semi-tone starting on E, to Eb, to D.

Once you get to the A7 chord the D drops another semi-tone to a Db which is the 3rd of the A7 chord.

It's also worth noticing that the 3rd of a C7 is an E note, and the 3rd of a B7 is an Eb note


Sticking with Em, here are some other progressions you can try. Note how the 7th always somehow moves into the next chord.

Em, Em7M, Bm7...
Em7. Em7M, C7, B7
Em, Em7M, G
Em, Em7M, C#m7 A7, B7
G, Em7M, Em

Now, if you want to use JUST the m7M chord you can do that too, although it's a little more difficult.

Here's an example

D, Em7M, C#m7, A7

It's the same idea though. You start off with a D, move up a semitone to Eb, another semitone to E, and holds that E for the A7 as well. but note that the C# note in the A7 chord will set up your D again.

Hopefully this has made some degree of sense. If not I can try to record some audio examples. Otherwise I'm sure one of the gurus here can probably explain the concept better than I just have