#1
I have recently started using modes, and I completely get the concept, the only problem is I have trouble keeping the resolution where I want it when there is no backing chords.

I know that the easiest way to get the modes sound is to play over the right chords, and when I'm doing this, I have no problem keeping the resolution where I want it, but when I'm not playing over chords, I either can't get the resolution on the specific mode I want, or I can't keep the resolution on the same note when I do get it. It keeps going back to the relative major key.

I do generally end on the note I want it to resolve to, but it never sounds resolved.

So pretty much what I'm asking is, how do you keep the resolution on the note you want it to resolve to, when using modes, and with no backing chords?
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Violets are bitchin'
Goddammit woman,
get back in the kitchen"
#2
You need the chords to give the ear some context, otherwise your ear will default to a major/minor tonality. I don't think there's anyway around it.
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#3
Its because your not used to hearing modes the sound of modes. Your ear hears D E F G A B C D, but the only time you hear those notes together is in C maj and A min, so thats what your ear is trying to turn it into. The only way around it is to play the modes a lot and get the sound in your ear
Last edited by tubatom868686 at Jun 20, 2010,
#4
Quote by tubatom868686
Its because your not used to hearing modes the sound of modes. Your ear hears D E F G A B C D, but the only time you hear those notes together is in C maj and A min, so thats what your ear is trying to turn it into. The only way around it is to play practice the modes a lot and get the sound in your ear


I agree. You're just playing the minor/major scales because that's what you're resolving to. Try at least playing one chord appropriate to the mode at the start of every bar to improvise over to get the feeling/sound of it in your head.

Or properly learn major/minor first so you can differentiate between all of them.
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#5
Quote by tubatom868686
Its because your not used to hearing modes the sound of modes. Your ear hears D E F G A B C D, but the only time you hear those notes together is in C maj and A min, so thats what your ear is trying to turn it into. The only way around it is to play practice the modes a lot and get the sound in your ear


bingo.
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#6
Alright, I think I get it now, thanks for the help!
Quote by leg end

"Roses are red,
Violets are bitchin'
Goddammit woman,
get back in the kitchen"
#7
Quote by sites.nick
I have recently started using modes, and I completely get the concept, the only problem is I have trouble keeping the resolution where I want it when there is no backing chords.

I know that the easiest way to get the modes sound is to play over the right chords, and when I'm doing this, I have no problem keeping the resolution where I want it, but when I'm not playing over chords, I either can't get the resolution on the specific mode I want, or I can't keep the resolution on the same note when I do get it. It keeps going back to the relative major key.

I do generally end on the note I want it to resolve to, but it never sounds resolved.

So pretty much what I'm asking is, how do you keep the resolution on the note you want it to resolve to, when using modes, and with no backing chords?



Your melody should imply the chords. No different than any other tonal type of music.

I often people say "the note wants to resolve here or there". Personally, I say BS. If you want the piece to resolve to a certain note, you simply have to resolve it there. Remember your the composer. You choose where the notes go.... they don't decide for themselves.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 20, 2010,
#8
If you have access to a piano or keyboard, go play an E Phrygian scale. It just sounds like a C Major scale starting on an E right? Well on your other hand, hold an E or an E minor chord on a lower octave and then play the scale above it. It should have that "phrygian sound." GuitarMunky has an excellent point too. It can be boring when everything resolves perfectly.
#9
Quote by GuitarMunky
Your melody should imply the chords. No different than any other tonal type of music.

I often people say "the note wants to resolve here or there". Personally, I say BS. If you want the piece to resolve to a certain note, you simply have to resolve it there. Remember your the composer. You choose where the notes go.... they don't decide for themselves.
I agree here.

It really is no different than tonal music. If you can write a melody to imply resolution to both the major and the relative minor, you should have no problem with dorian, lydian, mixolydian, etc.

Well, there is a bit of limitation with modes, but if you know your way around them it shouldn't be a problem. It seems to me you just need a bit more practice with them.

In regards to your latter point, I somewhat disagree. It is possible to force an unexpected resolution, but you can't just make something resolve somewhere it doesn't want to resolve. Say you have a progression that goes C F G7. You can't just end it on F and call it resolved. You can end it on F and it will sound fine, but it's an irregular resolution, meaning it's not resolved on the tonic. You wouldn't say it's in F simply because it resolves on F. It does resolve to F, but falsely. Like I said, it's an irregular resolution.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Jun 20, 2010,
#10
If your in dorian ... Lets say key of C ... So D minor ... Just play the arpeggio of D minor..1- 3-5 not the 7th that would be C ... Now use the scale but eliminate the C ... Yeah your ear is going to go nuts...try making melodic statements with as few notes as possible stressing the mode notes ... and the most difficult thing in the beginning of modal playing is to keep the sound of the chord out of the melody..the natural thing would be for the chord to demand some sort of movement...you want the melody to stand alone

Modal playing stresses melodic content more than harmonic..so the notes of the melody should not stress the C note at all..even as a passing note...until you can develop melodic ideas that dont "pull" to the key center of C

This will take some practice...google some material on how to develope modal styles...i would use a jazz approach as it may be more practical in todays music...

play well

wolf
Last edited by wolflen at Jun 20, 2010,
#11
Quote by food1010

In regards to your latter point, I somewhat disagree. It is possible to force an unexpected resolution, but you can't just make something resolve somewhere it doesn't want to resolve.

the piece of music doesn't "want" anything. It's the artist that chooses the notes.
and yes you could decide not to resolve something after setting it up to be resolved. Thats your choice. Now if a person thinks something is resolved when it isn't .... well thats a different issue. Thats a matter of not knowing what the term means and/or possibly being tone deaf (maybe a few other things 2)

Quote by food1010

Say you have a progression that goes C F G7. You can't just end it on F and call it resolved. .


We'll you've already written the progression and decided it resolves to C. had you decided to go somewhere else with it.... you could have.

also, if you did end on an F (over the I chord), and called it resolved...... you would be a person that doesn't understand what the term "resolve" means. If you know it doesn't resolve and have done that intentionally, you just made an artistic choice.

Quote by food1010

You can end it on F and it will sound fine, but it's an irregular resolution, meaning it's not resolved on the tonic. You wouldn't say it's in F simply because it resolves on F. It does resolve to F, but falsely. Like I said, it's an irregular resolution.


An artists can choose to resolve.... or not resolve. The notes don't decide. Theory doesn't decide.


I think sometimes people associate the term "resolve" with some sort of rule meaning "you must go here". I don't see it that way though. Tension and resolution are something for the artist to play with. You don't have to resolve, and when you do the best resolution is the one that sounds best to you, not the one with the most impressive name. otherwise every song would include Perfect Authentic cadences and nothing else.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 21, 2010,
#12
^Id argue that hundreds of years of ear training for the human race makes our mind believe that certain notes want to resolve to certain other notes, and that the entire study of music theory is based off that concept.

Your right, notes and theory dont decide where something resolves; but I would argue that neither does the artist. I think it was all the artists before us that have decided what sounds good to us today. And the present day artists job is to flex, bend, and elaborate on those sounds in an artistic way that pleases the ear.

Also, Im going to throw in a little physics. Some chords are naturally more "stable" than others, and our ears want to go from unstable chords to stable chords. For instance, the diminished chord. Its so dissonant to our ears, that we would rather hear anything than a fully diminished chord. Thats why a diminished chord can literally go to anything else and sound "good"
#13
Quote by tubatom868686
^Id argue that hundreds of years of ear training for the human race makes our mind believe that certain notes want to resolve to certain other notes, and that the entire study of music theory is based off that concept.

Your right, notes and theory dont decide where something resolves; but I would argue that neither does the artist. I think it was all the artists before us that have decided what sounds good to us today. And the present day artists job is to flex, bend, and elaborate on those sounds in an artistic way that pleases the ear.

Also, Im going to throw in a little physics. Some chords are naturally more "stable" than others, and our ears want to go from unstable chords to stable chords. For instance, the diminished chord. Its so dissonant to our ears, that we would rather hear anything than a fully diminished chord. Thats why a diminished chord can literally go to anything else and sound "good"



I wouldn't say that human beings believe certain notes want to resolve to certain other notes. That would imply that we believe the notes are sentient beings.
It's more accurate to say that we recognize resolution, have categorized it, and utilize it in our art.

But again..... it's WE that utilize IT.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 21, 2010,
#14
Quote by GuitarMunky
I wouldn't say that human beings believe certain notes want to resolve to certain other notes. That would imply that we believe the notes are sentient beings.
It's more accurate to say that we recognize resolution, have categorized it, and utilize it in our art.

But again..... it's WE that utilize IT.


Well, I think when we say notes want to resolve, were saying that we want notes to resolve. But fair enough
#15
Try listening to, and learning some music that has modal properties.

Start outlining your phrases in groups of measures of 4 or measures of 8. This will teach you how to play lines that sound like they have a beginning and an end instead of "just play all these notes" endlessly with no direction.

Check out these tunes for practical modal application, a lot of modal players cut their teeth on these tune:

So What by Miles Davis - Dorian
Impressions - Dorian
Maiden Voyage by Herbie Handcock - Dorian
Song for John by Stanley Clarke and Chick Corea - Lydian with tensions
Km-Pee-Du-Wee by Steve Vai - Lydian
Norwegian Wood the Beatles - Mixolydian and Dorian
In Memory of Elizabeth Reed by The Allman Brothers - Dorian
Windows by Chick Corea - Lydian
Moondance - Dorian and Aeolian
More Ravi Shankar and Shakti than you can shake a stick at!
#16
Quote by GuitarMunky
the piece of music doesn't "want" anything. It's the artist that chooses the notes.
and yes you could decide not to resolve something after setting it up to be resolved. Thats your choice. Now if a person thinks something is resolved when it isn't .... well thats a different issue. Thats a matter of not knowing what the term means and/or possibly being tone deaf (maybe a few other things 2)

We'll you've already written the progression and decided it resolves to C. had you decided to go somewhere else with it.... you could have.

also, if you did end on an F (over the I chord), and called it resolved...... you would be a person that doesn't understand what the term "resolve" means. If you know it doesn't resolve and have done that intentionally, you just made an artistic choice.

An artists can choose to resolve.... or not resolve. The notes don't decide. Theory doesn't decide.

I think sometimes people associate the term "resolve" with some sort of rule meaning "you must go here". I don't see it that way though. Tension and resolution are something for the artist to play with. You don't have to resolve, and when you do the best resolution is the one that sounds best to you, not the one with the most impressive name. otherwise every song would include Perfect Authentic cadences and nothing else.
I can't say I disagree with you here.

Regarding the bold section: That's exactly my point. The notes you (choose to) use dictate where the song resolves. No one ever said/meant to say that certain notes will always want to resolve to certain other notes. It all depends on how they're used.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea