#1
This is something that I can't get past- writing two parts for what amounts to the same voice (Guitar 1, Gutiar 2). Pretty much all I can do right now is harmonize, do an ostinato on one guitar while the other just does the rhythm, or have one do a melody while one chugs away at the root note of the chord at the moment. Any tips on how to solve this? If need be I'll resort to unison for parts that aren't like the aforementioned, but that seems like a cop-out.
#2
Do you know how to write counter melodies? Do you know how to harmonize in 3rd's? Or any other interval for that matter? Do you know how to write a chorale in 4-voices? You might only have two voices, but writing interesting basslines is learned here. Do you know what inversions are?

If you don't know any of these... learn them.

There's definitely some methods I forgot though. Someone will fill it in for me though.
#3
maybe have like a back on forth thing i forget what its called but have one guitar play something and have the second answer that
its great for instrumentals
#4
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Do you know how to write counter melodies? Do you know how to harmonize in 3rd's? Or any other interval for that matter? Do you know how to write a chorale in 4-voices? You might only have two voices, but writing interesting basslines is learned here. Do you know what inversions are?

If you don't know any of these... learn them.

There's definitely some methods I forgot though. Someone will fill it in for me though.


Counter melodies: Vauguely. They usually more come out more as ostinatos, though- thanks for getting me to remember this!

Harmonization: Oh yeah. Easy as pie.

4 voice chorale: Never my forte in music theory classes, but I'll look at these some more. Not sure how to use this when one part has chords, though- its my understanding that 4 voice chorales are really more 4 voices making a chord and having certain voices travel to non-harmonic tones between chords, though.

Inversions: Yes, but whenever I use them it never sounds too much better.
#5
Quote by GuerillaGorilla
Counter melodies: Vauguely. They usually more come out more as ostinatos, though- thanks for getting me to remember this!

Harmonization: Oh yeah. Easy as pie.

4 voice chorale: Never my forte in music theory classes, but I'll look at these some more. Not sure how to use this when one part has chords, though- its my understanding that 4 voice chorales are really more 4 voices making a chord and having certain voices travel to non-harmonic tones between chords, though.

Inversions: Yes, but whenever I use them it never sounds too much better.

Honestly, out of everything mentioned, the 4-part Chorale is the thing that made my writing better the most (if you understand my meaning). It helps in so many things once you get proficient at it, you'd be surprised.
#6
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Honestly, out of everything mentioned, the 4-part Chorale is the thing that made my writing better the most (if you understand my meaning). It helps in so many things once you get proficient at it, you'd be surprised.


To be honest, I completely forgot about it in independent songwriting, I should really revisit it, I'm glad you brought it up. But what would you do during, say, a chorus where one guitar is doing a progression with 4 note chords and the melody's already being taken up by keyboard/vocals?

Also, between this and the critiques you've given songs of mine, you're probably the biggest help to me furthering my songwriting ability right now. Thanks man!
#7
Quote by GuerillaGorilla
To be honest, I completely forgot about it in independent songwriting, I should really revisit it, I'm glad you brought it up. But what would you do during, say, a chorus where one guitar is doing a progression with 4 note chords and the melody's already being taken up by keyboard/vocals?

Also, between this and the critiques you've given songs of mine, you're probably the biggest help to me furthering my songwriting ability right now. Thanks man!

There are SO many things you can do in that situation. Here are some of my fav's:

- Epic countermelody/harmonization
- Arpeggiate the chord an octave or two up
- Make the second guitar play the same thing as the first, but in a different rhythm
- Have the second guitar extend the chord by giving it the 7th, 9th, 11th, etc.
- Combine points 3 and 4
- Drone notes
- Play the melody using heterophony
- Play the melody an octave up
- Create a separate rhythm in a different meter

Granted, some of these could be combined, but these are just some of the options I go through when dealing with things like this.

Haha thank you for the praise! Sorry I haven't been in T&C for awhile... I lost GP and just got it back. I'll try and post something... eventually!
#8
Quote by DiminishedFifth
There are SO many things you can do in that situation. Here are some of my fav's:

- Epic countermelody/harmonization
- Arpeggiate the chord an octave or two up
- Make the second guitar play the same thing as the first, but in a different rhythm
- Have the second guitar extend the chord by giving it the 7th, 9th, 11th, etc.
- Combine points 3 and 4
- Drone notes
- Play the melody using heterophony
- Play the melody an octave up
- Create a separate rhythm in a different meter

Granted, some of these could be combined, but these are just some of the options I go through when dealing with things like this.

Haha thank you for the praise! Sorry I haven't been in T&C for awhile... I lost GP and just got it back. I'll try and post something... eventually!



Wow. I have so much to learn These are all fantastic suggestions, thanks a lot for that post! Just one thing, could you give an example of heterophony? I think I get it (melody played at the same time with variations), but not sure if I grasp it wholly yet.

It's cool, it'll just make it all the better when your new song(s) get posted! Plus, I got some new songs that'll need critquing soon...
#9
Quote by GuerillaGorilla
Wow. I have so much to learn These are all fantastic suggestions, thanks a lot for that post! Just one thing, could you give an example of heterophony? I think I get it (melody played at the same time with variations), but not sure if I grasp it wholly yet.

It's cool, it'll just make it all the better when your new song(s) get posted! Plus, I got some new songs that'll need critquing soon...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAs4L9AKUKk

This is probably the best example you'll ever get.

And make sure you listen all the way until 1:21. The laptop I'm on could BARELY pick up those notes. It's frickin' CRAZY.
#10
Quote by DiminishedFifth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAs4L9AKUKk

This is probably the best example you'll ever get.

And make sure you listen all the way until 1:21. The laptop I'm on could BARELY pick up those notes. It's frickin' CRAZY.


Oh damn, O Brother Where Art Thou? Need to watch that movie again soon. YOU SQUISHED MY BROTHER!!!

Now I get it. And damn those four men have such strong vibrato.
#11
Well, there was already a lot of really good advice posted in this thread, but one thing I'll throw out there is this - buy a book on counterpoint and study it. Jean Paul Jones is a master of counterpoint if you want to see examples in action. Go listen to the verse section of Ramble On and pay attention to the bass.
#12
remember that you always don´t need to complicate yourself too much.
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#13
Quote by GuerillaGorilla
To be honest, I completely forgot about it in independent songwriting, I should really revisit it, I'm glad you brought it up. But what would you do during, say, a chorus where one guitar is doing a progression with 4 note chords and the melody's already being taken up by keyboard/vocals?
Have the other guitar do something that just colors it up a bit. DiminishedFifth mentioned having it extend the chord into 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, etc. You could also have it fill up some of the space between chord tones (for example, venturing through the scale not necessarily with harmonization in mind, just make sure it isn't random).

Actually a better way to describe that second part would be to work with passing tones. I'd suggest you study some bass playing. Often bass players use approach tones/step-ups, and some other coloring riffs. The only difference here is you don't have the priority of holding down the low end. You could play the 3 and/or 5 of a root position chord and work off of that. You have plenty of options.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Jun 21, 2010,