Poll: Read the title.
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View poll results: Read the title.
Yes
162 62%
No
54 21%
Somewhat/some forms of it
41 16%
Unsure
5 2%
Voters: 262.
Page 1 of 8
#2
If indigenous people want to do it, I have no problem with it, as it's a part of a culture that has been around for centuries.

I do take issue with Norway using seal clubbing as a tourist attraction. It seems like a canned hunt when you put it in that light.

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#5
We need more golf courses to fit the seal clubbing population.
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#6
Quote by Das_Skittles
If indigenous people want to do it, I have no problem with it, as it's a part of a culture that has been around for centuries.


The Aztecs used to sacrifice people as it was part of their culture. Why not bring that back too?
#7
It should be prohibited.
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#9
Quote by Das_Skittles
If indigenous people want to do it, I have no problem with it, as it's a part of a culture that has been around for centuries.

I do take issue with Norway using seal clubbing as a tourist attraction. It seems like a canned hunt when you put it in that light.


So if it was part of a culture to club humans to death would that be ok?
#11
It should be encouraged.
Quote by Vornik
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#13
Quote by Zoot Allures
Oh right, so because it would be people being eaten after being clubbed it would be wrong but because it's seals it's fine. Nice double standard you got there.


I'm saying it would be wrong because you're clubbing a fellow human to death.

Can you not understand that it's part of some people's culture to kill and eat animals?

How is seal clubbing any different than someone catching a fish and eating it? Or shooting a deer and eating it?

Just because it's a cute seal?
#14
Quote by BurningStarlV
I'm saying it would be wrong because you're clubbing a fellow human to death.

Can you not understand that it's part of some people's culture to kill and eat animals?

How is seal clubbing any different than someone catching a fish and eating it? Or shooting a deer and eating it?

Just because it's a cute seal?


It's done in a very very brutal way, that's the problem, i don't care if people hunt for food, if they choose to hunt in a way that causes a lot of pain and the pain could be avoided then of course any moral person would have a problem.

Saying 'it's culture' is a shit argument to defend anything. You don't just let people do whatever they like because it's 'culture lololololol'.
You have no problem doing it to seals but you'd have a big problem doing it to people. That's a double standard.
#15
Quote by BurningStarlV
I'm saying it would be wrong because you're clubbing a fellow human to death.

Can you not understand that it's part of some people's culture to kill and eat animals?

How is seal clubbing any different than someone catching a fish and eating it? Or shooting a deer and eating it?

Just because it's a cute seal?

Just because it's their culture doesn't mean it's right to kill them that way. It's obvious that clubbing them doesn't always kill them immediately and causes suffering. We all know suffering is terrible so why should we put another life through it?
#16
Quote by metaldud536
Just because it's their culture doesn't mean it's right to kill them that way. It's obvious that clubbing them doesn't always kill them immediately and causes suffering. We all know suffering is terrible so why should we put another life through it?



That's a valid point. I don't know how thorough seal clubbing is, or what they even do it with, but I can't imagine they would die very cleanly. However, it could be the only way to successfully hunt seals, and if that's what they survive (or survived) on than it's understandable in my eyes.


I would never purposely kill an animal in a way that would make it suffer.
Last edited by BurningStarlV at Jun 22, 2010,
#17
Quote by Zoot Allures
It's done in a very very brutal way, that's the problem, i don't care if people hunt for food, if they choose to hunt in a way that causes a lot of pain and the pain could be avoided then of course any moral person would have a problem.

It's really, really not.

My parents lived in very northern labrador for years, everyone there clubbed seals, and it was always done as quickly and painlessly as possible. The few people that do do it brutally and are exploited to the media give the natives up there a bad name. Just because PeTA says something, doesn't make it true.
#18
Quote by 20cdndollars
It's really, really not.

My parents lived in very northern labrador for years, everyone there clubbed seals, and it was always done as quickly and painlessly as possible. The few people that do do it brutally and are exploited to the media give the natives up there a bad name. Just because PeTA says something, doesn't make it true.

Well PETA didn't say this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC339547/?tool=pmcentrez

Plenty of info there of people not killing them properly.
Last edited by metaldud536 at Jun 22, 2010,
#19
Quote by 20cdndollars
It's really, really not.

My parents lived in very northern labrador for years, everyone there clubbed seals, and it was always done as quickly and painlessly as possible. The few people that do do it brutally and are exploited to the media give the natives up there a bad name. Just because PeTA says something, doesn't make it true.


Well that article just posted says otherwise :/

Can i just ask, as a person who obviously has morals , do you think it's okay to kill seals in a way that potentially causes a lot of suffering or do you think it would be better to minimise that risk and kill them in the most painless way you can, like with a rifle shot to the head or similar.
#20
So it's not okay for seals to be brutally killed...but it is okay for cows, pigs, chickens, and other livestock to be treated like shit, then killed?

At least someone has to go out and actually find the seals.
#21
Quote by Zoot Allures
Well that article just posted says otherwise :/

Can i just ask, as a person who obviously has morals , do you think it's okay to kill seals in a way that potentially causes a lot of suffering or do you think it would be better to minimise that risk and kill them in the most painless way you can, like with a rifle shot to the head or similar.


you wont always kill them instantly with your first shot. according to that article, it takes an average of 45 seconds for an animal to be able to be killed with a club after a shot from a gun only wounds it.

tbh, a few cracks to the skull on an animal thats known to have a very fragile skull kinda seems to be a bit more humane. the only problem i saw with the club method from reading that article seems to be with determining if the animal was truly dead after the clubbing. in their study only 3% of the seals were determined to be still alive when brought onboard the vessels, so instead of banning the practice altogether, they should probably work on lowering/eliminating that percentage.
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#22
killing animals is only wrong if the animal is really cute
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#23
Quote by 20cdndollars
It's really, really not.

My parents lived in very northern labrador for years, everyone there clubbed seals, and it was always done as quickly and painlessly as possible. The few people that do do it brutally and are exploited to the media give the natives up there a bad name. Just because PeTA says something, doesn't make it true.
YES! Finally someone who's actually had experience with the culture up here. You guys know how my family kills seals? .308 round to the head. Know how many others do it? Something called a hakapik, which is NOT a club, but rather a large hook on a stick that either pierces the brain or severs the brain stem. Instant death. Just because seals look cuter than other animals (although they're still very territorial, aggressive and dangerous) doesn't mean it's any more wrong to kill them for food and clothing when it's in an organized and humane fashion.
Quote by metaldud536
Well PETA didn't say this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC339547/?tool=pmcentrez

Plenty of info there of people not killing them properly.
" The conclusion is that the large majority of seals taken during this hunt (at best, 98% in work reported here) are killed in an acceptably humane manner"

Its only a few people that don't do it properly. What about hunters that shoot an animal and let it bleed to death because they didn't get a good shot? What about bowmen who exclusively kill animals in an inhumane manner? Why is no attention paid to them?

Oh yes, it's because moose and bears aren't as cute as a seal, even though a moose is actually less dangerous given they don't gave sharp teeth and the ability to sever flesh and bone. Which seals do. Ask my uncle, who lost his hand in the 70's to an angry harp seal.
Last edited by Pat_s1t at Jun 22, 2010,
#24
Yes, but i think hunting should be illegal too, so take that as you will.
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#25
Quote by Zoot Allures
It's done in a very very brutal way, that's the problem, i don't care if people hunt for food, if they choose to hunt in a way that causes a lot of pain and the pain could be avoided then of course any moral person would have a problem.

Saying 'it's culture' is a shit argument to defend anything. You don't just let people do whatever they like because it's 'culture lololololol'.
You have no problem doing it to seals but you'd have a big problem doing it to people. That's a double standard.


Dead is dead.
#26
Quote by Zoot Allures
It's done in a very very brutal way, that's the problem, i don't care if people hunt for food, if they choose to hunt in a way that causes a lot of pain and the pain could be avoided then of course any moral person would have a problem.

Saying 'it's culture' is a shit argument to defend anything. You don't just let people do whatever they like because it's 'culture lololololol'.
You have no problem doing it to seals but you'd have a big problem doing it to people. That's a double standard.


Yeah, I'm in general agreement with this.
I don't have a problem with indigenous inuit people hunting seals for food and skins, after all, it's not like you can grow anything to eat there or raise cattle or sheep or pigs or fowl, but the majority of those indigenous people have guns for hunting nowadays, so a much more humane way of killing the the seals is certainly possible for them, infact, as far as I know, that's exactly how the majority of the indigenous people hunt seals nowadays.

The brutal bludgeoning of the seals is just unecessary and the only people who seem to kill them in this way seems to be those who kill them commercialy for their skins which they then export.
#27
^ Although you have to account for the rising price of ammunition (the huge amounts which are being used in Afghanistan/Iraq and the recent frenzy to stock up on 'munitions in the US) which might result in some people not being able to afford them.

Quote by technicolour
So it's not okay for seals to be brutally killed...but it is okay for cows, pigs, chickens, and other livestock to be treated like shit, then killed?

At least someone has to go out and actually find the seals.

Considering how we treat people of our own species, and the fact that people think its totally ok with pisspoor justifications, i'd say this is part of a larger problem.
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#29
Would animal rights activists agree to be clubbed instead?
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#30
Quote by dann_blood
^ Although you have to account for the rising price of ammunition (the huge amounts which are being used in Afghanistan/Iraq and the recent frenzy to stock up on 'munitions in the US) which might result in some people not being able to afford them.


Dude, bullets are mass produced in millions and literaly cost just a few pennies each to make. It takes just 'one' well aimed bullet to kill a seal.

Being able to shoot the seal also means that you no longer have to sneak up on it and hit it before it disappears down an ice hole, you can kill it from a distance without it even knowing you're there, surely that is reason enough to spend a few pennies per seal. In my opinion, the only reason someone wouldn't do this is because they get a kick out of clubbing them
#31
Quote by Mad Marius
Would animal rights activists agree to be clubbed instead?






That post is filled with win, and deserved that even though it is only slightly funny.

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#33
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Dude, bullets are mass produced in millions and literaly cost just a few pennies each to make. It takes just 'one' well aimed bullet to kill a seal.

Being able to shoot the seal also means that you no longer have to sneak up on it and hit it before it disappears down an ice hole, you can kill it from a distance without it even knowing you're there, surely that is reason enough to spend a few pennies per seal. In my opinion, the only reason someone wouldn't do this is because they get a kick out of clubbing them

It doesn't matter how they're produced if they're not producing enough and if they're using them/stockpiling them faster than they're being produced. In a firefight, allied soldiers are using an average of 250,000 bullets per insurgent killed. They're averaging 200-300 insurgent deaths per month in Afghanistan alone. There was a huge spike in consumption as far as people buying and stockpiling munitions after Obama was elected, and it's only recently that that buying trends have dropped back to normal and the effects of the recession cutting back on the inflation that hit the munitions market.

You're also really underestimating the skill it takes to fire a gun accurately, let alone at a living moving creature, especially seals which are rather lively. It's not easy.

I agree that thats the way it should be done, but you've got to think practically. As long as the clubbing of seals is done humanely - ie, resulting in instant death or as close to that as possible - then I see no difference between that and a bullet.
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Last edited by dann_blood at Jun 22, 2010,
#34
Seals can go clubbing as much as they want, as long as they're not there to start fights or aren't causing trouble I don't mind them being there.

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#36
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Sounds like me playing an army game.



Alot of the bullets that are fired are fired for tactical and manuevering strategies. Basically, shooting heaps to get in a position to kill the insurgents and to protect themselves/their squad.
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#37
I think using it as a tourist attraction is disgusting, as well as doing it inhumanely - which is probably due to having it as a ridiculous part of their 'culture' anyway.

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#38
Quote by Rockoz
killing animals is only wrong if the animal is really cute



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#39
i dont have a problem with it being banned / controlled...
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#40
Quote by dann_blood


A lot of the bullets that are fired are fired for tactical and maneuvering strategies. Basically, shooting heaps to get in a position to kill the insurgents and to protect themselves/their squad.


I do that in games but it never does anything

But yeah, i figured that's what it'd be for.. Didn't quite expect it to be such a large amount though.