#1
iv learned how inversions work. but i dont know is the order of rules for this...

i know and frist inversion is 3,5,7,1 second is 5,7,1,3 third is 7,1,3,5

my biggest misunderstanding is...does it have to go in that order? because basic bar chord is 1 5 1 3. so is the bass note the only one that matters? or can these inverions only be played in certian places on the guitar?

i find it hard to invert a chord in that exact order


now on to harmony

i broke down the E major scale yesturday E F# G# A B C D# E

and figured the traids for the 1 3rd 5th and 7th

and i got E maj G# maj B maj and D# dim

is that right? expected more minors

do i just follow the E maj scale with making other chords within that scale..being sure to not use any notes thats not in the scale?
Last edited by metalmetalhead at Jun 22, 2010,
#2
The E major scale is E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-D#.

Edit:

do i just follow the E maj scale with making other chords within that scale..being sure to not use any notes thats not in the scale?


Only if you want to make a strictly diatonic progression.
Last edited by MapOfYourHead at Jun 22, 2010,
#3
Quote by metalmetalhead
iv learned how inversions work. but i dont know is the order of rules for this...

i know and frist inversion is 3,5,7,1 second is 5,7,1,3 third is 7,1,3,5

my biggest misunderstanding is...does it have to go in that order? because basic bar chord is 1 5 1 3. so is the bass note the only one that matters? or can these inverions only be played in certian places on the guitar?


The bass note is the only one that matters!

i broke down the E major scale yesturday E F# G# A B C# D# E

and figured the traids for the 1 3rd 5th and 7th

and i got E maj G# min B maj and D# dim

is that right? expected more minors


Fixed. G# to B is a m3. The C is also a C#.

do i just follow the E maj scale with making other chords within that scale..being sure to not use any notes thats not in the scale?


If you're going to be making the chords in the key of E Major, then yes.
Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Jun 22, 2010,
#4
If you're going diatonically, that G# Major should really be a G# Minor, as G# and B are a minor third apart.
...I like metal.
#5
I can't answer your first question, but I help with the second one.

You harmonized the scale wrong. It's:

Emaj, G#min, Bmaj, D#dim

Remember that the tonalities of the major scale are:

M, m, m, M, M, m, dim


In general, you do use those chords and stay in key. But that's the "safe" way. There's nothing wrong with it, but going out of key (using accidentals) is fine, as long as it is done correctly. There are some common techniques that use out of key note, such as borrowed chords, secondary dominants, seventh chords, and so on.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#6
When the notes are within an octave like 1-3-5-7 or 3-5-7-1 they are closed (or close) voicings. Many of these voicings and their inversions are hard to play on the guitar, so there are other voicings you can use that are easier to play. One type is called Drop 2. The below links show drop 2 voicings. The first link shows how to create them. There are other types such as drop 3, drop 2 & 4, etc.

http://www.guitarlessonworld.com/lessons/lesson43.htm
http://www.chrisgrey.com/drop2chords.htm

The chords in any major scale harmonize the same way. The triads on the 1st, 4th and 5th degrees are major, the triads on the 2nd, 3rd and 6th degrees are minor and the 7th is a diminished triad.
#7
i was so close to being right...dang if i would have gotten that C# right i would have been...but if desired could that G# be turned into a sus 4 chord also? and still in key?

Quote by rockingamer2
I can't answer your first question, but I help with the second one.

You harmonized the scale wrong. It's:

Emaj, G#min, Bmaj, D#dim

Remember that the tonalities of the major scale are:

M, m, m, M, M, m, dim


In general, you do use those chords and stay in key. But that's the "safe" way. There's nothing wrong with it, but going out of key (using accidentals) is fine, as long as it is done correctly. There are some common techniques that use out of key note, such as borrowed chords, secondary dominants, seventh chords, and so on.


is this the same as synthic notes? an example is seen yesturday was G# to F#..but i did not understand...i have not learned to much on tonics yet..but i was gonna take notes on that today...from my understanding tonic is for chords...where as root is for scales. so from what iv gather..dealing with chords you use tonic using the word "root" would be incorrect
#8
Quote by metalmetalhead
i was so close to being right...dang if i would have gotten that C# right i would have been...but if desired could that G# be turned into a sus 4 chord also? and still in key?

Don't worry about sus chords yet (the C# had no bearing on whether or not your G# chord was right or wrong. C# isn't part of the G#m triad. But yes, if you took out the B and put in a C# it would be a sus4).

is this the same as synthic notes? an example is seen yesturday was G# to F#..but i did not understand...i have not learned to much on tonics yet..but i was gonna take notes on that today...from my understanding tonic is for chords...where as root is for scales. so from what iv gather..dealing with chords you use tonic using the word "root" would be incorrect

You have it backwards, actually. Tonic is for scales, root is for chords. Though you will hear the root of a chord referred to as the tonic, or vice-versa.

As far as I know, there are no such things as synthic notes. Unless you mean Synthetic, in which I've never heard of them but are theoretically possible I guess. Don't worry about rockingamer2's last paragraph yet. While it is correct, you're theoretical knowledge isn't up there quite yet.
#9
Quote by metalmetalhead
i was so close to being right...dang if i would have gotten that C# right i would have been...but if desired could that G# be turned into a sus 4 chord also? and still in key?


is this the same as synthic notes? an example is seen yesturday was G# to F#..but i did not understand...i have not learned to much on tonics yet..but i was gonna take notes on that today...from my understanding tonic is for chords...where as root is for scales. so from what iv gather..dealing with chords you use tonic using the word "root" would be incorrect


Nvm, Dim5th got it.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
Last edited by rockingamer2 at Jun 22, 2010,
#10
thanks for all your help and im taking your advice dim5th i dont want to get to far ahead of myself...but i do have a quick question on modes.

since we are already in e major..would the frist mode for that be F# dorain? with the b3 and b7? or would that be the second mode? and the frist would be an e major scale..which in modes is called...E ionian
#11
Quote by metalmetalhead
thanks for all your help and im taking your advice dim5th i dont want to get to far ahead of myself...but i do have a quick question on modes.

since we are already in e major..would the frist mode for that be F# dorain? with the b3 and b7? or would that be the second mode? and the frist would be an e major scale..which in modes is called...E ionian

Alright... this better be the last question for awhile, y'hear me? But seriously.

The first would be E Ionian, and the second would be F# Dorian. I'm pretty sure you can figure it out from there. But really... don't go to modes quite yet. Make sure you have Tonal music and the Major/Minor scales down pat before you go into Modes.
#12
Inversions only pertain to the note in the bass of the chord. In other words, the other chord members can fall in any order that you see fit. So G#min7 in 1st inversion, for instance, could be a plain old ...B D# F# G# or B G# F# D# or B D# G# F# or any other order, so long as the B is in the bass.
#13
Quote by DiminishedFifth
You have it backwards, actually. Tonic is for scales, root is for chords.
Actually I think he had the right idea. To clear this up, I'll give a bit more specific examples.

The root of the C major scale is the note C.
The tonic of the key of C major is a C major chord.
The root of a C major chord is the note C.

A root is a single note, whereas a tonic is a chord. You can have both a root of a chord and a root of a scale.

Quote by DiminishedFifth
The first would be E Ionian, and the second would be F# Dorian. I'm pretty sure you can figure it out from there. But really... don't go to modes quite yet. Make sure you have Tonal music and the Major/Minor scales down pat before you go into Modes.
Precisely. You have a long way to go until you are ready to go into modes. You should have a very strong understanding of tonal harmony before going into modal theory.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Jun 22, 2010,
#14
Quote by food1010
Actually I think he had the right idea. To clear this up, I'll give a bit more specific examples.

The root of the C major scale is the note C.
The tonic of the key of C major is a C major chord.
The root of a C major chord is the note C.

A root is a single note, whereas a tonic is a chord. You can have both a root of a chord and a root of a scale.

Haha I think we're all right on this one, honestly.

The first scale degree is the tonic in a given key. The note the chord is named after (e.g. Cm) is the root, which can also be the tonic. There is a root of a scale.

Maybe they're more synonymous than I previously thought...
#15
every time iv always seen diatonics and tonic..and subdominat and median. it was always used as chord terms in a scale. i think this is going to be my next lesson

also in diatonics none of the same keys can be called the same letter more then once for example

the F# major scale

F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#

of course i cant be certain..its been years since iv studied it..and i gave all my notes away to someone that didnt even learn nothing...
but thats where the E#/Fb and B#/Cb come into play