#1
Hey guys, is there a way I can improve my metal tone without turning up the gain? Currently when I play normally I have the amp gain on 6 and the Bad Monkey on gain 5 and level 10. When I record, I dial this down to amp 4, Bad Monkey gain I leave on 5 but I turn down the level to 5.

Here you can see an example of the difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n6vLiheWCw
This is a video I made in which I recieved feedback suggesting I dial down the gain for recording as it is a bit fuzzy. This video I recorded with normal settings and didn't dial the gain down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjSu6-aw9Xk
Here is a more recent video in which I had the gain dialled down. Can anyone give their views on the tone for both.

Thanks
#5
The GE-7 you have should let you scoop the mids out and brighten it up, if that's what you mean. How do you have it set up (or do you even use it in those videos)?
#6
The settings I use are as follows, and I use all my gear on recordings:

Valveking:
Gain: 6 (4 when recording)
Bass: 6
Mids: 7
Treble: 6
Resonance: 8
Presence: 9

GE-7:
100: +7
200: +4
400: 0
800: -2
1.6k: 0
3.2k: 0
6.4k: +5

Bad Monkey:
Level: 10 (5 when recording)
Low: 8
High: 5
Gain: 5


I use a Shure SM57 to record and the program I use is Cubase LE4.
#7
Well I had never heard a Bad Monkey until your post, and after watching other YouTube videos of them in various configurations (amps, guitars) I get the impression they aren't designed to produce face-melting metal tones. All of them had a warm, tube gain sound to them.

Back in the mid-90's I had a Marshall JCM 800 stack, which I ran a Boss Metal Zone (I think) off of. It went from a muddy, heavy tone to a bright crunchy tone after I added a GE-7 into the chain. Woke that sucker up like something fierce.
#9
Try this, set the gain on the Bad Monkey to 0, so it's only acting as a clean boost, then put the gain on your amp to around 7-8, drop your mids to about 5, and, I can not stress this enough with the Valvekings, USE THE DAMN TEXTURE CONTROL ON THE BACK OF THE AMP!!!!! The thing works extremely well for cranking out metal tones. As well as the tight loose switch.

If you use the texture control and the tight loose switch in conjunction then you can dial out most of the frizz.
#11
Quote by Random3
Just tried some of those tips, and sounds a bit better thanks

Tight/loose switch? Is that on the 2x12s?



It should be right next to the texture control, I have the 112, so it is on mine, you might not have it since you have a resonance and presence control.
#14
Yea, a bad monkey isn't going to get you a terribly metal sound. It's a variation of the TS-9, an overdrive pedal. I'd consider looking into some distortion pedals, MT-2 with a GE-7 is pretty well known as mentioned before.
Current Rig>>Jackson Phil Collin Signature Guitar/Ibanez Artcore>>>Modded Dunlop Crybaby>>>TS-9DXModded>>>Rat kit>>Octavia>>CE-20>>DD-7>>>Musicaman HD-120
#15
I already have a GE-7

And yeah I used to have an MT-2, but I sold it when I got the VK because I wasn't too keen on the sound.

The BM gives a great full sound and its pretty damn heavy, but I'm finding it difficult to capture when recording.

My mic placement I tend to use is I have the mic about 2 inches away from the mesh, and just to the right of the centre of the cone, facing the centre.

I double track when I record, and I split them one left and one right.

I also do a bit of onboard tweaking with Cubase, I tend to up the bass and high treble a bit, and lower the mids a tiny bit.
#16
Well, remember, the sound you hear standing up next to the amp is not what the amp is putting out, lean next to it, get your favorite settings, and record. Perhaps a better mic would help with the sound. Also, don't be afraid to put the mic closer, less depth could give more clarity to the sound.
Current Rig>>Jackson Phil Collin Signature Guitar/Ibanez Artcore>>>Modded Dunlop Crybaby>>>TS-9DXModded>>>Rat kit>>Octavia>>CE-20>>DD-7>>>Musicaman HD-120
#17
A better mic? SM57 is an industry standard for a reason.

Try placing the mic differently. Slightly off the cone may help to produce a rounder, fuller sound.
#19
Too much highs, but truthfully, I think it's largely the amp, unless you get some pedal that's really going to coax it into something it isn't. There are plenty of pedals that'll do that for you . Granted, you have a great sound, the advice is just so, I think, you can get the tone you have in your head. Maybe scoop the mids greatly in your EQ? Definitely a huge difference though! .

Or, try recording at a higher volume (that'll sometimes help you get that chunk you're looking for), or use your recording software to shape the sound more?
Current Rig>>Jackson Phil Collin Signature Guitar/Ibanez Artcore>>>Modded Dunlop Crybaby>>>TS-9DXModded>>>Rat kit>>Octavia>>CE-20>>DD-7>>>Musicaman HD-120
#20
Quote by Quoteman
Too much highs, but truthfully, I think it's largely the amp, unless you get some pedal that's really going to coax it into something it isn't. There are plenty of pedals that'll do that for you . Granted, you have a great sound, the advice is just so, I think, you can get the tone you have in your head. Maybe scoop the mids greatly in your EQ? Definitely a huge difference though! .

Or, try recording at a higher volume (that'll sometimes help you get that chunk you're looking for), or use your recording software to shape the sound more?


Awesome thanks

Yeah I'm recording fairly quietly because my brother is watching TV in the other room haha.

I'll try scooping the mids on the software a bit, and I'll be sure to post it in the recording/riffs section once it's done
#21
Quote by Quoteman
Too much highs, but truthfully, I think it's largely the amp, unless you get some pedal that's really going to coax it into something it isn't. There are plenty of pedals that'll do that for you . Granted, you have a great sound, the advice is just so, I think, you can get the tone you have in your head. Maybe scoop the mids greatly in your EQ? Definitely a huge difference though! .

Or, try recording at a higher volume (that'll sometimes help you get that chunk you're looking for), or use your recording software to shape the sound more?



I guarantee you it's not the amp, you just have to know how to tweak it.

I listened to your latest recording, and it now sounds very scooped and tiny, but it does sound huge, try dialing your mids back by post EQing them in and lower the bass guitar in the mix a tad, should make things less muddy, oh, one more thing that helps a tone, high pass your electric guitars at 250-300hz and low pass at 11500-12000hz. On the bass guitar just run a low pass at 7250hz, so it doesn't jack with the guitars highs.
#22
Quote by ethan_hanus
high pass your electric guitars at 250-300hz and low pass at 11500-12000hz. On the bass guitar just run a low pass at 7250hz, so it doesn't jack with the guitars highs.


I'm a bit of a noob with that, can you explain what you mean

Also, heres the finished song, let me know what you guys think specifically of the tone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozx-_9mKM7k
Last edited by Random3 at Jun 23, 2010,
#23
Quote by Random3
I'm a bit of a noob with that, can you explain what you mean

Also, heres the finished song, let me know what you guys think specifically of the tone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozx-_9mKM7k



It's like a noise gate, for specific frequencies. There should be a VST in your DAW that will allow you to do this. Doing this will really bring out the guitars and make your mix a whole lot less bassy and muddy.
#24
^ i wouldnt say a filter is anything like a noise gate. a gate will allow sound through only when it reaches a certain volume. a filter is an all the time reduction (or increase) in certain frequencies.
this is what those filters will do to your sound. notice that the high end and low end are shaved off.
#25
Quote by jof1029
^ i wouldnt say a filter is anything like a noise gate. a gate will allow sound through only when it reaches a certain volume. a filter is an all the time reduction (or increase) in certain frequencies.
this is what those filters will do to your sound. notice that the high end and low end are shaved off.



Yeah, your right. I guess I've always looked at it like a gate since I always use the high low pass in the LeCab VST.
#27
Ok I've done a high and low pass of the frequencies you said, at -6.

I'll post a link here of the recording once it's uploaded, I think the tone is sounding a lot better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS31eyrMTrw

Heres the recording, let me know what you think
Last edited by Random3 at Jun 24, 2010,
#28
Quote by Random3
Ok I've done a high and low pass of the frequencies you said, at -6.

I'll post a link here of the recording once it's uploaded, I think the tone is sounding a lot better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS31eyrMTrw

Heres the recording, let me know what you think
It sounds way better, but it still sounds boomy IMO.

How are you micing the amp? Maybe experiment with different micing positions.

Also, maybe try turning the bass down on your Valveking and let the bass guitar handle the bass frequencies. It seems the guitar sounds like it has too much bass, and really, the best guitar tones are a lot thinner then most think.

And last but not least, Youtube is not the greatest place for us to make correct judgments on your tone. Try dropbox. www.dropbox.com
Last edited by DIMEBAGLIVEDON at Jun 24, 2010,
#29
Quote by DIMEBAGLIVEDON
It sounds way better, but it still sounds boomy IMO.

How are you micing the amp? Maybe experiment with different micing positions.

Also, maybe try turning the bass down on your Valveking and let the bass guitar handle the bass frequencies. It seems the guitar sounds like it has too much bass, and really, the best guitar tones are a lot thinner then most think.

And last but not least, Youtube is not the greatest place for us to make correct judgments on your tone. Try dropbox. www.dropbox.com


Cheers I'll try that on my next recording and let you know.
#31
Sounds better, but the low end sounds a little loose IMO.

Now I would invest in a tube screamer to tighten the sound. The tube screamer IMO is a must for any metal recording involving tight low end, but that is just me.

Also, I know many people mod their Valveking's to make them sound better. Did you change your speaker? Stock Tubes?

It does sound a little fizzy as well, maybe try EQ'ing a little out of the 9k range or between 5k and 8k. Not too much, or your sound will not cut through.

Also, I like to personally set my low pass at 13k. Maybe try that?

And maybe try making multiple bass tracks, but with different tones. Not multiple takes, but a simple copy and paste of the track. Try a bass track with a low pass at 90hz (sub bass), another track with another high pass at around 200 hz, and another bass track that has another EQ similar to the above, but with distortion. Send this all to a bus track, with compression.

And remember, trust your ears.
Last edited by DIMEBAGLIVEDON at Jun 25, 2010,
#33
Quote by Random3
Nah everything with the VK is stock, I havn't replaced anything.

Thanks, I'll try some of that probably tomorrow
I advise to do so then.

Start with the speaker, then the tubes.

I would also get some sort of overdrive (tube screamer) pedal.