#1
In a song I'm trying to learn, there is this annoying key change. The song is His Silent Film by Lower Definition. I know the song starts out in F minor and even plays a dissonant riff in F minor, (Which made me think it was another key change, but it's not.)

Here is a link to the song on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgJcN7lOvHg

1:45 - 1:52 is right around when the key change happens. I also know it changes to A# Minor. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how they do it so smoothly. Any tips... or it'd even be helpful if someone could tab this song out... or... anything. I'm just trying to figure out how that key change works.

F minor to A# minor is what I've got, too. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Thanks very much!
#2
i cant hear a key change

at least nothing that really stands out to me

i think he just might be altering the notes a bit.
Last edited by Coagulation at Jun 25, 2010,
#3
Quote by Coagulation
i cant hear a key change

at least nothing that really stands out to me

i think he just might be altering the notes a bit.


It's definitely subtle. The reason I know it's a key change is because certain notes from F minor that previously sounded harmonious, now sound dissonant. Like I said, I know the second key is A# minor. I mean, try jamming or soloing over it in these keys, I'm almost positive that it's right. I just cannot figure out how they change it. I want to figure out how to I can reproduce certain key changes like that in my own projects.
#4
i wish i could help you but i think its a beyond my level of musical understanding at the moment.

im curious to see how its explained also.
#6
I think you all are looking a bit to far into it. They go from tonic (f minor) to the sub-dominant (Bb minor), so a modulation from i to iv. Not terribly common, I don't think, but it's definitely a pleasant surprise. Anyway, as far as I know, they didn't use any "technique" to modulate aside from the tried and true (and at times abrupt and unpleasant) method of "just do it."

EDIT: I guess if you were to look for how they "just did it", you could find that starting at 1:40ish they begin this transition/sequence going back and forth between i and V in F minor (so f-C) and then at 1:50 they do similarly but now going back and forth between Bb and Eb (a 5th), tonicizing Bb as the new tonic once the "soft" part begins. Any other input from other members??
Last edited by Paquijón at Jun 26, 2010,
#7
Quote by Paquijón
I think you all are looking a bit to far into it. They go from tonic (f minor) to the sub-dominant (Bb minor), so a modulation from i to iv. Not terribly common, I don't think, but it's definitely a pleasant surprise. Anyway, as far as I know, they didn't use any "technique" to modulate aside from the tried and true (and at times abrupt and unpleasant) method of "just do it."

EDIT: I guess if you were to look for how they "just did it", you could find that starting at 1:40ish they begin this transition/sequence going back and forth between i and V in F minor (so f-C) and then at 1:50 they do similarly but now going back and forth between Bb and Eb (a 5th), tonicizing Bb as the new tonic once the "soft" part begins. Any other input from other members??


This is all that happens really. They just go up a fourth (or down a fifth, how you want to look at it). Happens quite often, since it just playing the same riff but a string higher (so instead of on the low E you'd play it on the A string).
This kind of modulation happens alot!
#8
Quote by KoenDercksen
This is all that happens really. They just go up a fourth (or down a fifth, how you want to look at it). Happens quite often, since it just playing the same riff but a string higher (so instead of on the low E you'd play it on the A string).
This kind of modulation happens alot!
This.

It's actually a very simple modulation, as the key signature only changes by one note. You're going from 4 flats to 5 flats, so the two keys have 6 notes in common.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#9
Quote by KoenDercksen
This is all that happens really. They just go up a fourth (or down a fifth, how you want to look at it). Happens quite often, since it just playing the same riff but a string higher (so instead of on the low E you'd play it on the A string).
This kind of modulation happens alot!


So. Then what you're saying is that they do one progression in one key but then they go and treat the fourth or fifth of that scale (In this case the fourth; F - Bb/A#) as the new tonic?

Like this? Cause I know the first progression is an i - VI. So, based on what you're saying, the rhythm guitar is doing this:


[font="Courier New"]
D|--------------------------------------
A|--------------------------------------
F|------------------5-5---------------
C|-5-5--1-1---------5-5--6-6-------------------
G|-5-5--1-1---------3-3--6-6-------------------
C|-5-5--1-1--------------6-6-----------------
  | - 1st part - |  | - 2nd part - |
[/FONT]
#11
Quote by Eastwinn
Ever listened to GlassJAw?


Bahaha. Yes I have. Honestly, everyone says they sounds similar. I can really hear it in the vocal style, but otherwise I don't think they're super close. Then again, I haven't listened to a lot of glassjaw, only a little bit.
#12
Depends on what album you listen to. The first is just the vocal style, the second gets pretty close to Lower Definition in terms of overall style. Not identical or anything.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#13
Quote by Gizmo Factory
I'm just trying to figure out how that key change works.
There are three easy ways to shift keys. The smoothest is used in this song: you find one or more chords that exist in both keys. In other words, the notes that make up these chords exist in both keys. These chords are called pivot chords.

You make sure the progression is correct in the first key up to and including the pivot chord(s), and you continue with a correct progression in the new key starting with the pivot key. Once you have a tonic or a dominant (preferably both in a cadens) you confirm that you are in the new key.

This is basically what Paquijón was hinting at. The tonic chord in F minor has the same notes as the subdominant in Bb minor. And like food1010 said, since both keys have 6 notes in common, it is very easy to find a number of pivot chords. It's only when you hear a Gb in a chord or an arpeggio, that you start noticing you're not in F minor anymore.