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#1
I, personally, hate the full stack. There is no net gain in terms of tone by simply adding more speakers, and the beast acts simply as a stand-in phallice - a visual reminder to everyone just how badass and manly you are.

So barring the traditional "Marshall stack" approach, which by the way is usually very disappointing, here's what I suggest to young musicians getting started:

Take that $1000 you would spend on the full stack (well, the head alone, actually) and instead get yourself a PA system. Get the nicest power amp you can find - Crown if you can pick one up, or one of your choosing. Carvin actually makes pretty decent amplifiers, though they are not "high end," but plenty powerful and flexible enough. Go for the highest possible wattage you can find - 500? 1000? 50,000? - okay, maybe not, but if you can find it, then what the hell?

The more watts the better.

Now you need speakers. Speakers initially don't matter, and you should think of them as disposable anyway. They will wear down and will be the part of the system that will have to be replaced periodically. So if you are looking at $1000 speakers or $1000 amp, get the amp and some used speakers.

You will blow the speakers, by the way.

Get more.

The goal here is to establish a working rig that can be expanded and work for you as a musician, even if you decide later to pick up the keyboards, sax, vocals, clavichord, sitar... whatever.

Try playing sitar through a Marshall stack. Or synthesized Hammond B3.

That's precisely why I hate Marshall so much. Everything you put through the Marshall stack besides guitar will sound like sh*t.

Okay, so what about the guitar?

There are many different options for you, and picking a SMALL amplifier or direct box is like shopping in the candy store. If you go to...

...hold on...

...URP!..



Git...Guit....Guitar Center...

hold on, let me clean up the vomit...

Then you will pay a ton of money for whatever you're getting. Screw them. Buy online through Craig's List.

Rich Dentists and Lawyers are always picking up stupid hobbies, blowing wads of cash on them and then deciding, "ah, geez, I'd rather pretend to be a badass Harley rider for a while" and out goes a choice amp or DI box or effects rig for a fraction of the cost.

The best part? It will be barely used. I can't tell you how many times I have found great gear that rich, old men didn't want.



This is the way, young Jedis. Patience.

So once you have that classic Fender twin or Vox amp or DI box, or whatever suits your fancy, either plug in direct or mic it up using your PA.

At first the PA idea will sound idiotic. Your first "guitar interface" may be a crappy little practice amp and you'll want to smack me.

Go ahead, I can take a punch.

But trust me, if you invest the same money in a proper PA system and slowly accumulate SMALLER, LOWER WATTAGE guitar gear that SOUNDS GOOD, you can simply make it louder with your choice PA.

And you can sing through it, too! Try singing through a Marshall stack.

I lost about 20% of my hearing that way. Not really, but I couldn't hear shit for about a week afterwards!!!



For the remainder of this thread, discuss various observations, choice finds and various ways of making this work. This is your grown up Lego set!!

You are not going to Guitar Center to buy A7X's rig. You are creating YOUR rig, and the possibilities are endless.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#2
Looking forward to the reponses to this
Epiphone Les Paul Standard Limited Edition Worn cherry

Peavey Vypyr 30
#4
wow.....this was pretty much a useless rant....
Gear:
Fernandes Revolver Elite
Schecter C1 Exotic
Schecter C1 Classic
Peavey JSX head
Hartke 4x12 cab
Boss GT-8
BBE 362 Sonic maximizer
#5
so, you hate Marshall guitar stacks, because they don't sound good with things that aren't guitars..... is this meant to be a revelation or something?
#7
Your post seems like a long rant againist Marshall. If your buying a higher end Marshall I say it is worth it If your running it threw a 1960a cab and if you dial it in right. You should buy a decent amp and guitar befor you throw you money into a PA. Now if your jamming With a band yes you'll need a PA eventually. I have a Fender Deville and I don't have to mic it when we practice because it's just that loud. I do think that a full stack is over the top but that's what some people dig. If you've got $1000 buy a good combo tube amp and you'll be good.
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Holy Knight of the Crusading Order of the Stratocaster.

Gear:
MIA Fender Stratocaster
MIA Fender Telecaster
MI? Fender TC-90

Fender Hot Rod Deville
Blackstar HT5, HT40

various pedals
#9
did anyone actually ask for this advice?

anyone?


no?


thought not....
Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plus Top
Fender 300CE T-Bucket
Dean DOF ML [For Sale]
Marshall AVT 2000 valvestate
Ibanez modified turbo tube screamer
Digitech RP250
#10
You make me sad man You also completley miss the point of the full stack. And why only Marshall you pick on? There are just not enough sad faces





"Guitar is tactile, It's about how you play it"
- Joe Bonamassa

#11
HAhahahahaha.
Schecter Blackjack ATX C-1 FR
Schecter Hellraiser C-7
PRS Custom 24
SX Strat

Peavey 6505+
BUGERA 333XL
Laney LA412 Cab
Marshall AVT100 (Living at my friends place :P )
#12
Your point is? And why would you put anything other than a guitar through a guitar amp? And why do you seem to think only Marshall makes stacks?
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable


@gossage91
@overtimefitnessau
#13
this is bad advice. just cause youve only gotten your hands on a MG doesnt mean marshall sucks. go plug a strat into a vintage plexi and turn it up and be prepared to see god. obvious bad advice obvious
Gibson Grand Concert Acoustic
roland AC90

I mean this one time I was jacking it pertty hard and was making noises and what not

You, my friend, are a genius!
#15
marshall stacks rock. you obviously didn't play a good one n00b.

and i don't like the way the PA colors my tone.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Jun 26, 2010,
#16
For someone who joined in 2002, I'd expect better advice.

Speakers do not eventually wear down. You do not eventually have to replace them. Even if a speaker gets damaged, just have it reconed. Wow. Someone got up on the grumpy side of the bed this morning...
#17
I. I uh. What?

On one hand i agree with buying off Craigslist. I got my Tele and my Strat off there, sold my Spider III and my LP Special on it, and im thrilled with all my results.

Ive seen MIM strats in great condition going for $200, and LP Studios going for $450, and LP Standards for 1K. Its a great place. Im getting a new amp next from there.
2012 Gibson Les Paul Custom Classic
2001 Schecter C-1 Classic
2007 Yamaha APX500
Vox AC15CC1 w/ Eminence Tonkerlite
Assorted Pedals!

All for sale!

Call me Matt!
#18
You know, we buy guitar amps because they sound good with guitars. An electric guitar played through a PA simply sounds like ass.

EDIT: Ah, I get it. You want me to buy a guitar amp AND a PA. I don't need a PA though as every decent pub has one and I wouldn't need one for home use. If I ever want to amplifiy a keyboard, or acoustic guitar or vocals or whatever, I'll get a keyboard amp. You know, just cause it's way cheaper and perfectly suitable for home and garage use.


Ergo: You SUUUUUUUUUUCK.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Jun 26, 2010,
#19
I don't see your point.

a) High end Marshall stacks sound fantastic. Yes, a fullstack is overkill, but I don't see anything wrong with a halfstack at all, in fact thousands of guitarists struggle every day to replicate that tone. And they are not supposed to sound good with other instruments/voice micced. They are GUITAR amplifiers..

b) What is so great about a PA? I think it's good to have if you're in a band situation, just for balancing out the sound. But otherwise, I don't really see what you're talking about. Why would I take money I could use on a fantastic guitar rig to mic a small amp through a mediocre PA? 1000 wouldn't even get you a decent set of PA speakers..This is absurd.

Did you just get fired from Marshall?
#20
What if you're on a budget (can't afford buying all these extra speakers that your PA system is going to blow...according to you), you only play guitar (this isn't Ultimate-Sitar.com)?

And what if the Marshall amp is what you're looking for? Plugging into a PA direct from a Fender or Vox like you suggested isn't going to do shit for a metal guitar player (not that the Marshall would be the best pick either, just saying).

And why pick on Guitar Center...or Marshall for that matter. There are other guitar stores worse than Guitar Center...and there are worse full stacks than Marshalls. Somebody has a vendetta here.

This thread fails.
Last edited by eyebanez333 at Jun 26, 2010,
#22
*Sigh*

Silly TS is silly...


...Ever sung through a cranked MG with the gain up high?!
NOW THAT IS ROCK!
#23
i crank my full stack and vibrate that which is on the opposite side of the earth.


or min's house, whichever.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#24
Quote by sgwielder
so, you hate Marshall guitar stacks, because they don't sound good with things that aren't guitars..... is this meant to be a revelation or something?

I support that post.

By the way, Riffguy disagrees with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO4hwiBB35g
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/notfunnyatalljoke.


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#26
Quote by acdcrocks0323
Deep Purples' signature organ sound is a Hammond organ through an overdriven Marshall.

which obviously sounds like crap.


mesa sucks too btw.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#28
Quote by acdcrocks0323
Deep Purples' signature organ sound is a Hammond organ through an overdriven Marshall.


Yup, and I can't remember which band it was but some classic rock band's bass play played threw a marshall stack cause it was easier then finding a big bass amp.
www.myspace.com/thestalkingbutlers

Holy Knight of the Crusading Order of the Stratocaster.

Gear:
MIA Fender Stratocaster
MIA Fender Telecaster
MI? Fender TC-90

Fender Hot Rod Deville
Blackstar HT5, HT40

various pedals
#29
Quote by Sound_Garden_X
Yup, and I can't remember which band it was but some classic rock band's bass play played threw a marshall stack cause it was easier then finding a big bass amp.

motorhead?
#30
lulwut?

*gasp* when you play something other than a guitar through a guitar amp it doesn't sound good?????? Its certainly not specifically designed for one particular instrument or anything

don't see why people hate GC so much, its a good place to try stuff out, certainly try to find stuff cheaper at other places once you know what you want, but then again, each guitar is unique, even machine productions have variances in them

I would say, disregarding the possible trolling of this post, there are a couple decent points. A full stack or even half stack is not necessary unless you are playing good sized gigs, it sounds better pushing a smaller amp than playing a huge amp on 2, the money is better invested in a PA
Gear:
Epiphone Explorer (Lucy)
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1986 B.C. Rich Mockingbird N.J. Series w/Kahler Flyer Trem
Squier Strat
Washburn Lyon Acoustic
Charvel Bass
Fender Frontman 212
Dunlop Original Cry Baby
#31
Quote by rebel rocker

I would say, disregarding the possible trolling of this post, there are a couple decent points. A full stack or even half stack is not necessary unless you are playing good sized gigs, it sounds better pushing a smaller amp than playing a huge amp on 2, the money is better invested in a PA


Wat? You try to be nice = you get picked on! UG ftw?

extra speaker cabinets have very little to do with more volume. You get more presence and bass response out of a 4x12. But you can very well run a lower wattage head through it, retaining that sound at lower volumes. Of course, actually raising the volume is an important part of cranked tone, as you are moving more air, and pushing the speakers themselves harder.

But I agree, a fullstack is pretty overkill.
#34
Quote by nightraven
not every venue has a PA
and you need a marshall stack for bedroom use?

The ones large enough to need one do. And renting one isn't that big of a deal. The times when every band had to tour with it's own PA have been over for 30 years.

Allow me to make this post as poorly thought out as yours now: Never said I needed a stack for bedroom use. I could use it though. I don't think I'll ever set up a PA in my house though.


But you are right somewhat, telling a forum of guitarists they don't need guitar amps is indeed a wasted effort.
#35
Heres some advice, TS is an idiot.

Buy whatever gear you want and like.

Book shows at places with sound systems.
#36
Also, how many "young musicians getting started" have $2000 to spend?

OP is full of fail and an inflated sense of self-importance
Actually called Mark!

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...it's a seagull

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#37
Quote by steven seagull
Also, how many "young musicians getting started" have $2000 to spend?

OP is full of fail and an inflated sense of self-importance

Thats what I was thinking. We don't get too many threads that are like "I wanna learn to play and I have $2000, should I get a Mesa or a Marshall?"
#38
Quote by Bubonic Chronic
I, personally, hate the full stack. There is no net gain in terms of tone by simply adding more speakers, and the beast acts simply as a stand-in phallice - a visual reminder to everyone just how badass and manly you are.

Yeah, thats the point, nobody ever said the sound quality was better.
#39
Who runs vocals through a guitar amp? Amateur hour or what? Jon Lord runs a Hammond through a cranked Marshall stack so wtf are you on about? I own a PA as well and this rant is so much bollocks. The guitar amp and the PA serve different purposes, if you are serious about your shit you own both.
Gilchrist custom
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#40
Quote by steven seagull
Also, how many "young musicians getting started" have $2000 to spend?

OP is full of fail and an inflated sense of self-importance



I can think of one


OK TS:

1) I agree with you, that running a cranked stack of any sorts into a PA at a medium-ish gig. Overkill, especially since usually only one speaker is mic'd. However, with even a half-stack or quarter-stack, it WILL sound different, fuller, than a little 1x12 or smaller un-mic'd. I'd like to be able to play a show without relying on a PA being there, if I had to.

2) Looks are important whether we like it or not.

3) Running a small amp into a power amp would (usually) only utilize the preamp of the Guitar-amplifier, so that's really only half the amp. Even if you did that, you might as well just start up a rack system for ease of use and it would be more portable.

4) On the topic of CL: You can't always find what you want. It's not a store that just has everything that's ever crossed your mind. I mean, it might be close to that, living in a huge city like NY, LA, or England because it's a small country with plenty of people, but living in a dinky little 700,000 person town, full of second/third generation Eastern-Bloc immigrants, even if you DO happen to find someone selling what you want, chances are it's hideously overpriced, and *FIRM* at that. I always try to tell people that, I hate when people say "oh can you go used? Yes? Ok just buy this *amp thats been discontinued for 34 years* off CL." Meanwhile the kid lives on a seal farm in the Arctic or something.

5) Marshall wouldn't be popular if it sounded like garbage.

6) For a kid learning guitar, there is nothing cooler than working minimum wage for a summer or two and saving up for that Marshall or Gibson or Fender sitting in the window of the music-shop down the street. You don't hear the kids at school saying "Man I want this Crown XTi Power Amp so I can use the preamp of my Valve Junior into the pubs PA". I mean it's not that it can't sound good, it's just a bit unnecessary. That kind of thing is more of a last resort to save money, or to get a PRECISE tone.
Last edited by Tedward at Jun 26, 2010,
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