#1
what pups would you say sound close to the pafs in this guitar?
Gear:

Gibson Les Paul Vintage Mahogany

Epiphone Les Paul Goldtop with Seymour Duncan Alnico II's

Seagull 25th anniversary Mahogany Edition

Crate GT65

Digitech Metal Master

Dunlop Original Crybaby Wah
#3
those PAFs were all different sounding
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Studio
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul
-Ibanez S470
-PRS SE Custom

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Visual Sound Liquid Chorus

Pickups:
Guitarforce
MHD
#4
I've played a few sets of PAFs and early patent ###s (basically... PAFs).

Gibson didn't really standardize PAFs until late in their run so if you're looking for something 1960 on then its fairly easy to match specs, but for a '59, like JLT says, they're all going to be a mixed bag. I think here are some general specs to go by though...

alnico II, IV, or V long magnets (vs. short magnets that were in late PAFs)
42 awg plain enamel wire
generally somewhere between 7k to 9k

So you can imagine they're all going to sound a little different. But if you want a few suggestions, here are some popular makers of PAF copies, some of which I've tried, some of which I haven't.

Throbak, SD pickups, Seymour Duncan, Wolfetone, WCR, Jim Rolph, Peter Florence, Tom Holmes and a ton others. These are really just the big name guys who focus primarily on the PAF tone with the Throbaks, SDs and Holmes being the most expensive, Seymour Duncans being the cheapest, and everything else somewhere in between. I've never tried a set myself but SD Vintage Labs sound extremely close in clips that I've heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9PG-KIOUzE

I personally have Wolfetone Dr. Vintages currently, which sound pretty good too, but seem to be a little picky about the guitar that they're in. A covered set runs about $300. Just don't expect that a pickup like that is going to make your guitar sound like a vintage les paul. Because it won't.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=978800
^all of those are recorded with my wolfetones. sorry for the bad quality, i don't really have a recording setup... but you can hear the general character of the pickups.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#5
Quote by jpnyc
This is why the Duncan Antiquity pickups exist.



Also, SH-55 Seth Lover models. Wound on the original machine that Gibson used in the 50s.
Epiphone Les Paul goldtop (EMG 81/85)
Epiphone Les Paul Custom
Fender Telecaster MIM
Epiphone SG Special
Jay Turser JT200 Serpent (GFS Crunchy Rails/Crunchy Pat)
Dean V-Coustic
Ovation Celebrity
Bugera 333-212
Crate Blue Voodoo 120H
#6
Quote by truespin
Also, SH-55 Seth Lover models. Wound on the original machine that Gibson used in the 50s.


just because it is wound on the same machine doesn't mean it will like a 59 paf. like al said above me there was no standard practice, etc etc.
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Studio
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul
-Ibanez S470
-PRS SE Custom

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Visual Sound Liquid Chorus

Pickups:
Guitarforce
MHD
#8
^Holmes are certainly the priciest, but Idk if they're really THE best. I think a lot of Holmes is just hype. Same with Timbuckers. The sets of Holmes that I've heard really don't seem to nail the PAF tone any better than something like a Throbak or a Rolph.

http://www.myopicvoid.com/01%20Track%201.mp3

Those are Rolphs in a R9 going into a '67 Marshall Super Lead
Quote by JLT73
just because it is wound on the same machine doesn't mean it will like a 59 paf. like al said above me there was no standard practice, etc etc.
Yep, and the machine is partially a gimmick. All the PAFs were machine wound on those winders but a lot more goes into the pickup wind than just the machine that is spinning the bobbin. Seymour Duncan is really impressive in going to the length that it does to make good PAF repros and as far as mass produced pickups go, they're great, actually I consider them the best. They blow anything that Gibson or Dimarzio currently produces out of the water.

But someone who handwinds and is good at handwinding and knows how to wind something similar can do it equally well. Since something like a Stephens Design isn't mass produced, the winder can take his time getting the wind the way he wants it, it takes more time but with fewer pickups being made at a higher price point, they can do that. Also a lot of winders like to build their own machines too. I know Wolfetone has his own machine that he programs to wind his pickups a certain way. They're not techinically handwound, but if they sound like PAFs, then who cares?
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#9
actually i was just being facetious. the best soundpickups for paf are probably the 59/09s from prs.
paul did everything he could to recreate the damn things.

machine doesn't matter that match? who cares get the machine anyway. specific wire doesn't matter? who cares let's get the wire anyway. he got everything.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#10
i keep hearing about the prs 5909s.

i wonder what they sound like in a historic.
#11
Quote by al112987
i keep hearing about the prs 5909s.

i wonder what they sound like in a historic.


probably fantastic.

anything's got to be better then the burstbuckers.

I had a pair of wolfetone fenris a2s in this r8 I have and it was easily the best guitar I've ever heard.

I just put the burstbuckers back in to get ready to ship it to bubb and it instantly transformed into wacksauce.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#12
tbh i liked my first set of burstbuckers. i had a set back when they were still using pe wire and were unpotted. but for some reason i decided at some point to get them rewound, probably around the time i started reading the les paul forum and falling into the grass is greener trap.
#13
It's not necessarily the grass is greener. I don't think you need to pay 200+ dollars for a good pair of pickups.
My bg hellabucker/smokestack is only 150. Hand wound by brain gunsher. They sound amazing. I got them wound a little bit hotter with an alinco 5 bridge and an alinco 2 neck.

The burstbuckers just sound terrible. That's my experience from like 12 hours ago when I did the swap. The a2 wolfetones were full bodied and thick like swimming in a chocolate shake. The burstbuckers were noticeably thinner and less harmonic like the tale end of a starbucks iced frappe.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#14
thing is though, i feel like as far as PAFs go, they're supposed to on the thinner side. When I think of the sounds of Jimmy Page or early Clapton and I think of their bridge tone its always really bright, thin and that fat, milkshake like tone is always on the neck or middle positions. And even the real PAFs that I've played were really bright, much brighter than anything else I had ever used at the time and I almost always had to roll down the tone a tad on the bridge pickup. My Wolfetones Dr. Vintages are like that too. The only PAF style pickups that I've had that were fat sounding were my Fillmores (though Idk if those are even meant to be PAF-like). Those were fat as hell.
#15
Quote by al112987
thing is though, i feel like as far as PAFs go, they're supposed to on the thinner side. When I think of the sounds of Jimmy Page or early Clapton and I think of their bridge tone its always really bright, thin and that fat, milkshake like tone is always on the neck or middle positions. And even the real PAFs that I've played were really bright, much brighter than anything else I had ever used at the time and I almost always had to roll down the tone a tad on the bridge pickup. My Wolfetones Dr. Vintages are like that too. The only PAF style pickups that I've had that were fat sounding were my Fillmores (though Idk if those are even meant to be PAF-like). Those were fat as hell.



hmm maybe i don't like pafs then.
the fenris aren't meant to be pafs. they are wound 11k/16k
hate brightness. need more milkshake
my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#16
email tim at bareknuckle pickups. He would know exactly what you need if you tell him your guitar etc. Its his job to handwind pickups, so he's your man. He would either recommend you a model Bareknuckle makes or even do a custom wind if necessary.
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/

(I'm not an advertiser by the way)
Music is the holy grail, sod wine water and the blood of jesus
#17
PAFs do not have a ''thin'' or ''bright'' tone, they have a fairly transparent tone. It just so happens that "back in the day", most guitars were naturally brighter-toned (better wood that doesn't exist these days; one-peice bodies instead of today's more standard two-piece; thinner finishes; etc) and the PAF-design pickups exaggerated this. The trick to those PAF tones comes down to two things: high-quality wood and mismatched coils. Some PAFs were made with alnico III magnets, most with alnico IV magnets, some with alnico II and V magnets - and I'll be buggered if I can tell the difference between any two ''neighbouring'' magnets. Alnico II vs alnico V, sure, there's a fair leap there. But anyone who claims to hear a clear difference between alnico II and IV is talking out their arse.

Having mismatched coils makes a much larger difference than the magnet type. It means fewer frequencies are cancelled out, giving better response, more treble detail, more bass detail and flat-out more mids. It also means the tone becomes coloured by the wood a little more, hence needing good quality wood. Basically, the same deal as original EMG active pickups only without the boosted output. Of course this does mean that humbuckers with mismatched coils will be a little more prone to 60/50 cycle hum, but they still tackle most of it. Sadly, a lot of so-called PAF copies these days use matched coils, totally defeating the point. It's hard to read about a single humbucker without PAFs being mentioned and every manufacturer claims that every pickup they make gives you "PAF tones" but the reality is that "PAF" has become just as meaningless a term as "awesome." It's used so frequently that it has lost all impact and most of the time when people use it they have no idea what it is they're actually implying.


So if you want those '50s tones, you need a guitar made of the best quality wood you can get your hands on and pickups that are low-output (by modern standards) and use mismatched coils. Off the top of my head, Bare Knuckle, Juicy, Wizard, Swineshead, IronGear, Seymour Duncan, Gibson and DiMarzio all make at least one model of pickup each which fits this description, though be aware that that does not mean that every pickup those ocmpanies make will do it, regardless of what they claim (especially true in the case of DiMarzio, Bare Knuckle, Gibson and Seymour Duncan, who write "PAF" about twenty times in the descriptions of every single one of their pickups even though only about two pickups that each make are anything like PAF pickups). Specifically the SD Seth Lover, Greenie and '78 models, Gibson BurstBucker #1/#2/#3 (not the 'Pro') models and any of Juicy pickups' vintage designs are the best PAF-a-likes that I've found.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
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#18
No. Even in heavier modern les pauls, the PAFs still tended to sound thinner than other pickups. Again, this is all relative. It's going to sound darker than it was going to in a vintage les paul, but it's still going to be brighter than another pickup in the same guitar. They're wound less than most modern pickups and if they're using alnico II or IV magnets, then they're going to sound thinner based on specs alone. Thinner still if they're using mismatched coils. I'm not saying that they were weak or lacking, but their generally character is thinner. Seymour Duncan only ever uses PAF to describe the Seths, Antiquities, and '59. Those are spec-wise all PAF models and all sound decent. Wax potting kills the '59 a little bit, but the unpotted '59 from specialty guitars sounds much better. The '78 is supposed to replicate Eddie's rewound PAF. Idk if its actually supposed to be a straight up PAF, because it was rewound and who knows what Seymour was thinking when he rewound it. He used a different wire type too. Same goes for the Pearly Gates. Idk what the deal is with the Peter Green pickup. I just know the original Greenie pickup was also rewound by Green's guitar tech, supposedly using formvar wire as well instead of plain enamel.

You could say that its hard to tell the difference between two magnets in two separate pickups, but if you do magnet swaps, you can hear the difference when you swap through a load of different magnets in one pickup. The difference between II, IV and V are all pretty noticeable with IV being the brightest and lowest in output and V being highest in output and II having the most mids. It's subtle tonewise but it can really affect the pickups attack, compression and response. Again, it's not saying that I can listen to a BKP Mule and then a Wolfetone Dr. Vintage and say, "Oh that one has an IV nd that one has a II," its when I swap out the II in my Dr. Vintage for a IV and say "hmm... yeah there's something different going on here."
Quote by AcousticMirror
hmm maybe i don't like pafs then.
the fenris aren't meant to be pafs. they are wound 11k/16k
hate brightness. need more milkshake
my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.
Try WCR Fillmores. Mine are something like 11k and 13k. Alnico V, definitely milkshake thick, but clearer than anything else that I've ever heard. They're Jim's homerun pickups imo.

http://www.wcrguitar.com/fillmore_clips.html
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#19
Peter Greens pickup apparently had a reversed magnet and was not wound out of phase as many though (c/o Les Paul Handbook - P.Blamer).
Eric Clapton's early brighter LP tone on the Beano Album is due to the use of a Rangemaster Treble Booster.
Older LP's (Albums not guitars!) use pre-emphassis (RIAA I think) on recording to boost higher frequencies as well.
Moving on.....
#20
I think the Rangemaster thing is a myth. Personally I don't really hear it that much, and there has never been any REAL evidence that he used one. I can cop the Beano tone pretty well with just a les paul and jtm45+alnico blues. And so can loads others. But when I hear PAFs in modern guitars like historics or even Gibson USA production guitars, they still sound bright to me compared to other pickups, and your amps must be dialed accordingly. They're just brighter and more open sounding in general.

Idk about Peter Green's pickup, I know it was rewound, but whether it was rewound out of phase or the magnet was flipped is debatable, but it was rewound.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#21
It's not debatable at all, the magnet was flipped. The only thing that isn't quite clear is why it was installed backwards after it was modified. The popular theory is that the coil with the slug poles was unusually weaker than the coil with the screw poles, so it was installed backwards to compensate for that. Personally I would think it was the other way around, but unless we sit down with the guitar itself we'll never know. What we do know though is that the magnet was flipped. There is a slight difference in tone comparing a pickup wired out of phase vs a flipped magnet and there is a massive difference in how the tone changes when the middle position is selected with the volume controls at different positions.

Quote by al112987
words

I cba to re-write my previous post so save me the bother and re-read that, job done.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
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#22
I'm not debating if the magnet was flipped, I'm just saying, the PAF WAS rewound. That has nothing to do with being out of phase or not, and the fact that it WAS rewound means that its not really the same pickup that it was coming out of Gibson' factory, thus whether the neck pickup is really considered a PAF, is up in the air.

What KenG is talking about is not magnet flip vs. wiring your guitar out of phase, it's magnet flip vs. reverse wound. Its like what Tim Mills does with his PG Blues set (reverse wound neck) vs. what Wagner does with his Moore/Green set (magnet flipped neck). Reverse wiring is simply a matter of flipping ground and hot, but reverse winding is something totally different. Whether the pickup was wound backwards or magnet flip doesn't matter. It's the same sound, its just a matter of method. My point isn't magnet flip vs. reverse wound, my point is that since the pickup is rewound and thus isn't the same as a factory PAF.

And yes, I did read your first post. It's just a matter of how they are. Fatter wire, low DCR are going to lead to a brighter, thinner tone. I don't know how you are honestly going to debate this, it's a fact. Fatter wire -> Brighter, thinner tone than thinner wire. Less winds -> Brighter, thinner tone than more winds. These are facts.

Mismatched coils is an overrated quality. Gibson did not intentionally mismatch coils, Seth Lover has stated this, thus any mismatches due to differences in tolerances would be random, thus not consistent to either slug side hotter or screw side hotter. The two coils are already going to inherently mismatched to start on any pickup because of differences in inductance between slug side and screw side, so any random mismatch would not be standardized. Thus when makers "mismatch" coils, they are basically just making stabs in the dark. Maybe a particular PAF was mismatched, but they weren't specifically mismatched by design. Literally just about every maker I've asked, has basically said its more marketing than reality. Not that it isn't an option, it's just not something that makes THAT big a difference. Seeing that there is no way to compare balanced coils vs. unbalanced without changing other variables that affect the sound, there is no way to say that mismatched coils make this huge difference with the respect to PAF tone. And most makers aren't going to take apart several sets of $5000 pickups to test the output of each coil independently. However, Seymour Duncan, who HAS taken apart, and put together and repaired and analyzed more PAFs than anyone in history does not mismatch coils. Some makers like to use mismatches and it might do it for them, but its not necessarily due to something that was inherently in the PAF's design. WCRs are made using completely wrong materials and wound to completely off the wall specs, but if they get him the tone, then great. Duncan Antiquities are the best PAF replicas on the mass market today, and they all sound perfectly fine.

edit: And I'm not saying that PAFs all have matched coils, but its just one of the variances that differ, like magnet type, and DCR, not something that is super distinguishing about PAFs, because mismatched coils were not something in their inherent design. Any mismatches were just due to consequences in low tolerances. Thus there are likely more commonly matched (the winders wound several bobbins simultaneously) than mismatched.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#23
I'm wondering where you got the information that the PU had been rewound? This post was the first time I'd come across this. I'd heard some people state "wired out of phase" or "installed backwards" by accident by PG himself but the only study I've read is when Jol Dantzig of Hamer guitars got to check it out when Gary Moore dropped into his shop. He states [in the Les Paul Handbook pg 148, 149] bear in mind this is Jol's assessment.....

"my inspection indicated that the neck pickup hadn't been messed with at all except to have been turned around in the cavity. The solder joints holding the cover onto the chassis of the pickup were original and the cover didn't show any signs of the flexing that can occur when someone removes it, then puts it back on. From these observations (and based upon my personal of having disassembled scores of original pickups) I concluded that the magnet had merely been inserted the wrong way round when the pickup was manufacturerd. A quick test with a magnetic compass proved this out. One magnet was orienteted north to south while the other was orientated south to north. The pickups were magnetically out of phase."

BTW the current owner of this guitar is Phil Winfield Pres of Maverick Music USA and he allowed the author (or J Diggins who provided most of the technical assistance to Mr Balmer) to view, photograph and even remove some electronics covers for the book. "Greeny" is beat to crap, neck was broken in a car accident when G Moore owned it, new tuners had been installed some time in the past, the PU slector is broken and the finish has faded beyond believe. Still apparently worth a considerable amount though.
Moving on.....
#24
Quote by KenG
I'm wondering where you got the information that the PU had been rewound? This post was the first time I'd come across this. I'd heard some people state "wired out of phase" or "installed backwards" by accident by PG himself but the only study I've read is when Jol Dantzig of Hamer guitars got to check it out when Gary Moore dropped into his shop. He states [in the Les Paul Handbook pg 148, 149] bear in mind this is Jol's assessment.....

"my inspection indicated that the neck pickup hadn't been messed with at all except to have been turned around in the cavity. The solder joints holding the cover onto the chassis of the pickup were original and the cover didn't show any signs of the flexing that can occur when someone removes it, then puts it back on. From these observations (and based upon my personal of having disassembled scores of original pickups) I concluded that the magnet had merely been inserted the wrong way round when the pickup was manufacturerd. A quick est with a magnetic compass proved this out. One magnet was orienteted north to south while the other was orientated south to north. The pickups were magnetically out of phase."

BTW the current owner of this guitar is Phil Winfield Pres of Maverick Music USA and he allowed the author (or J Diggins who provided most of the technical assistance to Mr Balmer) to view, photograph and even remove some electronics covers for the book. "Greeny" is beat to crap, neck was broken in a car accident when G Moore owned it, new tuners had been installed some time in the past, the PU slector is broken and the finish has faded beyond believe. Still apparently worth a considerable amount though.
I haven't read the book so I'm not saying that you're wrong. There is a lot of reason to believe that its a magnet flip, Jim Wagner, Rick Norman and Seymour Duncan all think so. The re-winding thing is something that Tim Mills was spouting, and it sort of came out of nowhere. I can find the interview somewhere. It could be a load of hot air. edit: found it

“It’s a common misconception that the Peter Green neck p/up is reverse polarity.Having spoken with the man who repaired it I can confirm it was rewound in reverse with heavy formvar and not simply a flipped magnet.We don’t wire our neck out of phase we actually reverse wind the coils and that’s where the tone lies. Either flipping the magnet OR reverse winding will not effect the neck tone on it’s own however it does effect the middle position which becomes out of phase with the bridge. This is the way Peter Greens LP was configured-by accident due to the neck p/up repair- and so we make our set the same way.Many ‘gurus’ claim to know the secret of the Peter Green tone but none of them have actually found out. Having gone into considerable depth with not only Sam Lee who did the repair but also Charlie Chandler who repaired the LP after a car accident that Peter had I’m confident I’ve gotten to the bottom of it.The final proof is the people that play them, not only Gary Moore who’s owned the original LP longest and plays the PG Blues set now but also guys like Bernie Marsden, Geoff Whitehorn etc all who know the tone inside out say we’ve nailed it. kind regards Tim”
http://daveonrock.com/?p=16
It could just be marketing fluff, I don't know. But at the same time, Tim Mills has had access to a lot of high profile guitars.

More interestingly though... Phil Winfield owns that guitar? That's really interesting, he's right in my neck of the woods, I had a chat with Phil just a few months ago about a set of vintage Celestions (unlabeled, but original) that he was selling for cheap on Ebay (which were actually very rare and sought after first run bass cone G12H30s, basically the holy grail of Celestions, the Hendrix and Page speakers). I made sure with Scumback and then I stupidly pointed out the speaker codes to Phil and he decided to subsequently pulled the listing to do more research (foiled... should've just bid on them!). Apparently I suck at low-balling on rare, vintage guitar gear. But it's a small world indeed.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#25
Quote by al112987

And yes, I did read your first post. It's just a matter of how they are. Fatter wire, low DCR are going to lead to a brighter, thinner tone. I don't know how you are honestly going to debate this, it's a fact. Fatter wire -> Brighter, thinner tone than thinner wire. Less winds -> Brighter, thinner tone than more winds. These are facts.
I wasn't aware that indefinite adjectives applied to a subject based on an ambiguous set of highly subjective criteria were considered to be a ''fact'' of that subject's idiosyncrasies. I suppose it's also a ''fact'' that Stratocasters are the most comfortable guitar too?

Here's a tip to get you started, brighter does not necessarily equate to thinner and what many people would consider to be bright and/or thin (regardless of their relation or lack of to each other) to be different or equally the same as transparency.


Someone post that picture with the dude with the gun and "**** your theory" on it, I've lost it.
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#26
LOL yes, less winds equal lower output which equals more high end, higher resonant peak and thus subsequently less low mids and less low end. And weaker signal.

A 16 year old who has taken high school physics and knows Faraday's law of induction could tell you that! Show your picture of the dude to gun to Mr. Faraday and tell him that his theory lost.

edit: And while you're at it, go tell Seth Lover that he is wrong about the design of his pickups and that he led Seymour Duncan down the wrong path when replicating his PAF designs because their coils are not mismatched (or you can just tell Seymour Duncan himself that he is defeating the point of his pickups, he sometimes picks up the phone when you call his custom shop, either him or MJ, you can tell her too, but her English isn't too good so you might not get your point across). And just to be clear, when Mike Faraday and Seth Lover don't respond, it's because they're dead, not because you beat them in an argument.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#27
Firstly, you appear to be confusing a weaker signal with weaker content, two different things. Secondly, well done absolutely not addressing my actual point which was that (seems I best use layman's terms here) just because you think any given pickup is brighter/thinner/fatter/darker/warmer/whatever does not mean that is ''fact''. It is perfectly possible for pickups to be made which result in what is widely agreed to be a darker tone even though any given element may be more commonly considered to be or is theoretically brighter. This is why there are so many variations in the first place.


I've lost count now of how many times I've seen you lecture others about what any product may do as if it's a foregone conclusion that whatever it is you are currently claiming is the one and only possibility. This doesn't help anyone. It makes you look like an egotistical bullshitter with a completely unwarranted and inflated sense of self-importance, it annoys the rest of us (and I do mean "us", you'd laugh at how many people have e-mailed me and have talked to me over various IM means to complain about how they've had to deal with you) that nearly every time you offer your ''facts'' someone else has to spend their time crowbarring in the simple notion that hey, opinions happen, and it really isn't good for the newer users who see this nor is it good for the newer musicians who want to learn or just want a straight-forward answer and instead get you.

You're trying to contribute, great. You know a fair amount, great. That does not mean you have to act as if you are the only person on the planet who has any idea about this or any other subject, it does not mean you have to constantly talk down to every single person who posts, it does not mean that every single thing you say is the incontrovertible truth and it does not mean that nothing anyone else says could ever carry any weight or legitimacy. You also seem to have a habit of trying to start internet fights over subjects and points that haven't even been raised or disputed. There is no need to keep 'spergin'.




Ahem.



OP: by now you've had several answers about which pickups may give you the kind of tones you're after. If you're looking for a PAF copy on the cheap, I really recommend the IronGear Blues Engine. Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio make some more mid-range PAF-a-likes, personally I can't say I've ever tried the ones DiMarzio make but I hear good things about them and Seymour Duncan's various takes on the PAF design are definitely good for the money. If you've got a little more to blow I would really recommend you give Bare Knuckle, Juicy or the SD Custom Shop a call and get them to wind you as close to a direct copy of any given PAF as possible. Juicy are really good at replicating a specific tone so long as you give them a few examples of the sort of thing you're after.
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#28
sigh so much hate and anger in the world.

you know what i say.

eff pafs anyway. why keep getting hard over ancient shit.

now where did I put those 30k neo pickups...it's time to fire up the slo and practice my jazz inversions.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#29
Quote by MrFlibble
Firstly, you appear to be confusing a weaker signal with weaker content, two different things. Secondly, well done absolutely not addressing my actual point which was that (seems I best use layman's terms here) just because you think any given pickup is brighter/thinner/fatter/darker/warmer/whatever does not mean that is ''fact''. It is perfectly possible for pickups to be made which result in what is widely agreed to be a darker tone even though any given element may be more commonly considered to be or is theoretically brighter. This is why there are so many variations in the first place.
You were claiming that PAFs are not bright, or thin, that they are transparent. I agree that they're transparent. But they're also bright and I also believe them to be thin sounding. Thin is relative. Thin means thin compared to other humbucker types. As a whole, PAFs sound thinner than most other pickup types. I consider this a general rule with wiggle room. Sure, that's an opinion, but I formed that opinion because there ARE facts that can support it.

I've lost count now of how many times I've seen you lecture others about what any product may do as if it's a foregone conclusion that whatever it is you are currently claiming is the one and only possibility. This doesn't help anyone. It makes you look like an egotistical bullshitter with a completely unwarranted and inflated sense of self-importance, it annoys the rest of us (and I do mean "us", you'd laugh at how many people have e-mailed me and have talked to me over various IM means to complain about how they've had to deal with you) that nearly every time you offer your ''facts'' someone else has to spend their time crowbarring in the simple notion that hey, opinions happen, and it really isn't good for the newer users who see this nor is it good for the newer musicians who want to learn or just want a straight-forward answer and instead get you.

You're trying to contribute, great. You know a fair amount, great. That does not mean you have to act as if you are the only person on the planet who has any idea about this or any other subject, it does not mean you have to constantly talk down to every single person who posts, it does not mean that every single thing you say is the incontrovertible truth and it does not mean that nothing anyone else says could ever carry any weight or legitimacy. You also seem to have a habit of trying to start internet fights over subjects and points that haven't even been raised or disputed. There is no need to keep 'spergin'.
Um, did I ever say anything was incontrovertible truth? See above posts about Peter Green's guitar. I've heard what I've heard, and KenG has heard what he has heard. I believe we were able to have a completely legitimate discussion about it where two points are made. I only raise issue when I see something glaringly wrong, or so stupid that its worth calling out on. Again, I have no problem yielding to others, see: KenG and the Peter Green discussion.

Also, as far as having a high and mighty attitude treating my views as facts. I normally wouldn't argue with this, I'd typically brush it aside and say "Yes! I am a self-absorbed elitist! Bow down to me you peons!" only I'm not this time because you are the one calling me out on this. Are you REALLY going to call me out on this when you posted all that BS about the mismatched coils thing? About how not having mismatched coils eliminates the point of making a PAF pickup? And that its a deadset pre-requisite for a good PAF replica? Do you realize that by saying that, you are basically telling everyone from Seymour Duncan to Seth Lover to well regarded boutique pickup winders that they are wrong and you are right? Please tell me that you at least acknowledge this. Come on, everything you post has this high horse attitude, I don't really care because I do it too, I only pick an argument when you say something wrong with this huge amount of conviction, treating it as the word the God. Again, you can go ahead and spin that and say you never used the word "fact" when you say things like:

Sadly, a lot of so-called PAF copies these days use matched coils, totally defeating the point. It's hard to read about a single humbucker without PAFs being mentioned and every manufacturer claims that every pickup they make gives you "PAF tones" but the reality is that "PAF" has become just as meaningless a term as "awesome."
That you don't use the word "fact," but come on, we're not stupid.

OP: by now you've had several answers about which pickups may give you the kind of tones you're after. If you're looking for a PAF copy on the cheap, I really recommend the IronGear Blues Engine. Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio make some more mid-range PAF-a-likes, personally I can't say I've ever tried the ones DiMarzio make but I hear good things about them and Seymour Duncan's various takes on the PAF design are definitely good for the money. If you've got a little more to blow I would really recommend you give Bare Knuckle, Juicy or the SD Custom Shop a call and get them to wind you as close to a direct copy of any given PAF as possible. Juicy are really good at replicating a specific tone so long as you give them a few examples of the sort of thing you're after.
You might want to remove Seymour Duncans from there since they don't use mismatched coils.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#30
Quote by AcousticMirror
sigh so much hate and anger in the world.

you know what i say.

eff pafs anyway. why keep getting hard over ancient shit.

now where did I put those 30k neo pickups...it's time to fire up the slo and practice my jazz inversions.
Absolutely right. Want to buy my WCR Fillmores?
#32
Quote by AcousticMirror
are they 30k ceramics?
Nope but they're 13k alnico. HOT HARMONICS.

If no one buys them here, I will just flip them on TGP. They're obsessed with WCRs.
#33
ya i dunno I've got more pickups then guitars right now.
and i dont' really run anything in the 13k range.

maybe i'll take your bridge for a neck pickup?
i'm sure they'll sell on tgp though.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#34
Same issue, too many pickups, though I'm thinking about using a signing bonus to buy myself a R9... Maybe, I'm going to keep them around for when my new amp comes, if I don't like my Dr. Vintages through that then I may keep the WCRs but if I like how well the Wolfetones sound, then the WCRs will be out the door.
Last edited by al112987 at Jun 27, 2010,
#35
I agree with al here on his points. Mrflibble you are wrong. just wipe the egg off of your face and move on. Its a lesson learned
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Studio
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul
-Ibanez S470
-PRS SE Custom

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Visual Sound Liquid Chorus

Pickups:
Guitarforce
MHD