#1
So i am in the process of learning a bunch of theory and mapping out the fretboard and so on. I was practicing figuring out the keys of songs and noticed something very strange.

The songs seems to be in E major as it starts with an E chord and resembles the E major pattern on the fretboard.

So ultimately it does include E F# G# A B C# D#

However there are two chords that have a dissonant sound and quickly resolve, but in these chords are C's without the sharp and A#'s

This doesn't fit into any of my understanding of scales unless its just a variation to create a different sound and move away from the scale in order to create the dissonance.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Thanks
#2
It's not the 15th century anymore, you're allowed to play out of key every now and then.
#4
So is the purpose of playing out of key to add "tension" in order to increase the feeling of resolution?
#5
Quote by taylort36
unless its just a variation to create a different sound and move away from the scale in order to create the dissonance.


Nothing to explain. You just hit it.

Quote by taylort36
So is the purpose of playing out of key to add "tension" in order to increase the feeling of resolution?


Exactly.
#6
a great example of playing out of key is free bird.... it's totally in G but it plays an F chord, you arent limited to those notes only
#7
alright, i was doing this on paper since i don't currently have my guitar and my mind was very confused because i couldn't recognize the pattern. thanks a lot guys
#8
Quote by taylort36
So is the purpose of playing out of key to add "tension" in order to increase the feeling of resolution?

Tension, or colour. Play the chords Gm Em Cm. Not one diatonic key contains all those chords but they sound cool together.
#10
I dont believe in playing out of key anymore. If Im in C MAjor for example every note is available.. the scale is more of just a reference point. You can purposely play all 5 notes that are not in C Major and make it sound good when you get experienced enough.
#11
^
That's true, chromatic passing tones have good purpose sometimes. Listen to the last few notes of "Painkiller" by Priest, there's a chromatic passing tone and it fits in perfectly.
#12
Quote by atl2maryland
I dont believe in playing out of key anymore. If Im in C MAjor for example every note is available.. the scale is more of just a reference point. You can purposely play all 5 notes that are not in C Major and make it sound good when you get experienced enough.

Whether you believe in it or not, you're playing out of key. C major is C D E F G A B whether you like it or not. Everything else you said is perfectly legitimate and valid; there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing outside of the key centre, but you still have to recognize that you're playing out of key.
#13
Quote by taylort36

This doesn't fit into any of my understanding of scales unless its just a variation to create a different sound and move away from the scale in order to create the dissonance.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Thanks


You're absolutely right. They're called non-diatonic chord progressions. The act of using notes and chords outside of the original key signature is called modulation.
#14
Quote by aaronq1222
You're absolutely right. They're called non-diatonic chord progressions. The act of using notes and chords outside of the original key signature is called modulation.


mm...not quite. just because you have an out-of-key note or chord does not necessarily mean that a modulation is implied. it's only a modulation when the tonal center is completely shifted.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#15
Quote by AeolianWolf
mm...not quite. just because you have an out-of-key note or chord does not necessarily mean that a modulation is implied. it's only a modulation when the tonal center is completely shifted.


Exactly. Perhaps he meant tonicization? Even then it's just one special case of chromaticism, out of many.

Taylor, what is the chord progression in question, anyway?
Last edited by Slayertplsko at Jun 29, 2010,
#16
well i have a capo on fourth fret so that changes the actual chord name, but the shapes would be C E Am F G.

Then the second time around it goes to C E Am D7 G
#18
Quote by Slayertplsko
Exactly. Perhaps he meant tonicization? Even then it's just one special case of chromaticism, out of many.


most importantly: even then, it's not a tonicization. it's just borrowing a non-diatonic chord (or making a chromatic alteration(s)).

if the shapes are Cmaj, Emaj, Am, Fmaj, Gmaj, and there is a capo on the fourth fret, then your chords are Emaj G#maj C#m Amaj Bmaj. this is indeed E major, and it's all diatonic to Emaj, except for the B#. so what do you do? well, the easiest thing is to raise all your Bs to B#s when playing over the G#maj chord.

do the same thing for your second progression. label the chords, analyze the progression, figure out where the non-diatonic notes lie, and then account for proper accidentals over those chords.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#19
It's probably a diminished chord added here and there. Try figuring it out, You'll get it!

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