#1
OK, so i've been looking at some guitars for a more aggressive, metal sound, and i've narrowed it down to two that I'VE found, but i wanted some advice. I am trying to pick between the Epiphone Prophecy SG (the one with EMG's) and the ESP LTD EC 1000 FR. If i get the SG, I'll probably have a Floyd installed, but i kinda was leaning towards it because it's lighter and thinner, and would be a relief of having my Les Paul slung around my neck for hours.

Things i am looking for:
EMG Active pickups (either 81/85 or 81/60 combo)
A Floyd or the possibility of installing one
a lighter weight guitar (not top priority, but up there in importance)
something that looks metal (i con't believe i actually said it...)
Nothing Ibanez (personal preference)
good upper fret access
nothing below $500 or above $900

Ignore the amp in my signature...i am now borrowing a friend's Mesa Triple Rec.

Here are links to the guitars i've chosen:
ESP LTD EC 1000 FR
Epiphone SG Prophecy EX

Thanks for any Advice you can give
#2
When I was in the market for a guitar I concentrated heavily on the ESP LTD V series. Its a V guitar so its a "metal" shape and one has a floyd rose system.

You could also look at some of Schecter's Hellraiser and Blackjack series guitars. They are amazing guitars for really good prices. Some have Floyd Roses like the V and C1's.

Hope this helps.
#3
Here's my advice: You have no idea how much it'll cost to get a Floyd rose put in. The Floyd is going to cost you at least $200 alone, and to get it routed, at least another $200... and I think SG's are too thin to have a recessed Floyd installed on, so you'd have to get one that lays on top.

So in that case, you'd have to buy a Kahler trem of sorts or something similar, which would cost you around $200, remove the stoptail and the tune-o-matic bridge and install the Kahler. I'm not sure how a Kahler goes on either, so you might have to do some drilling.

The LTD 1000 will feel like you have a tree on your shoulder. It's pretty heavy. I'd guess somewhere around 10-12 pounds. The FR only makes it heavier. It'll probably be the same weight as your Epi LP Standard, if not even a little more.

I'd get this and be done with it.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/ESP-LTD-Deluxe-Viper-1000-Electric-Guitar-516635-i1149004.gc
#4
Im actually looking at one of these rabid puppies
http://www.samash.com/p/EX401DX-Electric-Guitar_-49954819
looks sick and has a floyd. not 100% if the floyd is real but some say its legit.
this signature has my gear in it. nothing more, nothing less

Gear
Ibanez S770PB
Jackson Rhoads
Custom Strat
Agile Al 3100
Rainbow Music Shop Custom Les Paul
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Bugera 6260 212
Line 6 Spider III
#6
Dude, chech out washburn HM WI series. They're exactly what you described. Plus an ultra damn smooth neck.
-------------------------------------------
Gear:

Guitar(s): .Shecter Tempest EXTREMEEEEEE
--------------Maton CW-80

Amplification: Randall RG75 G3
#7
OK, as a reply to EVERYONE so far,

I Like the V series, especially the 401DX, which is the same model that meow1992 posted, but a different body shape (v verses explorer)

I dislike the Hellraisers (at least the C1s) because their necks get wicked thick near the 12th fret and have a bad taper to them in my opinion. maybe a different model (i have seen some V's by them that i liked)

I'll check out the blackjack series

I know it would be expensive to get a FR installed, but if i like the axe enough, it'd be worth it. Plus, i could probably install it myself (maybe) as i do a good bit of woodworking myself and i enjoy the technical side of guitar. (though i am no master...lol) but idk if i would risk a project this big. The EC 1000 wouldn't be quite as heavy as my Epi because of the way ESP weight relieves them. My Girlfriend has an EC-200QM and they contour parts of it (i assume it's for weight relief and comfort) on the back and in the cutaway, but maybe they don't do that with all of the EC series. Also, why get the Viper when i could get that exact same guitar (for the most part) if i bought the Epi SG?

That's pretty sweet...i like the same version in their V series a bit better though...but i'm partial to V's :-P I have noticed that all of these guitars have the same finish though...lol the black see thru with either quilted or flamed maple tops...lol

Not a huge Jackson or Dean fan, but i won't rule them out...i also want to look at some BC Rich's

Never played a washburn, but i can always look...

Thanks to everyone so far for the advice

EDITS:
Looked at jackson and couldn't find anything in the price range that i liked...a few picky things with me and body shapes: I have offset V's and i hate Strat-shaped double cutaways....so all of the jacksons (minus the Kelly, which lacked EMGs) were out...same with the washburns...the only Double cutaway that i like is the SG/Viper and i looked past it for the Schecters, but that's the one exception.

However, in terms of Dean, (i try to stay away from Dimes guitars and Sig models in general) i found these:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Dean-Deceiver-FMF-Electric-Guitar-424029-i1526340.gc

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Dean-Deceiver-FG-Electric-Guitar-424030-i1526339.gc

They still bear the weight problem, but as i already have a LP, it doesn't bother me THAT much, i was just looking for something i could switch to for some relief...

Here is what i found from BC Rich:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/B-C--Rich-NJ-Deluxe-Warbeast-Electric-Guitar-516094-i1396013.gc

http://www.guitarcenter.com/B-C--Rich-DLXJRVO-Deluxe-Jr--V-Electric-Guitar-104511001-i1373778.gc

and this last one doesn't have EMGs, but how heavy are the pickups it has?

http://www.guitarcenter.com/B-C--Rich-Mockingbird-ST-512696-i1276270.gc

Thanks again, guys

ONE LAST EDIT:
as already stated, i like the Schecter V's but i am undure if they have the same neck problems as the c series...

AND

a Kahler Trem would also be acceptable if it is of quality and Seymour Duncan Blackouts/Livewires are also acceptable as pickups
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Jun 30, 2010,
#8
Well man, a whammy bar is going to cost, I dunno, twenty dollars extra on a guitar. If you'd like there's a great video on the internet as to how to whammy without a whammy bar, so you don't have to spend that whole $20.

In seriousness though, I tried the Epiphone Prophecy LP and SG next to the hardtail EC1000 and I much preferred the ESP, and thus bought it. I'd say the FR version is much the same has the hardtaill, maybe just a little bit heavier. I'd recommend the ESP myself.
#10
Dude, trust me. The EC-1000 is heavy. There's no contour on it, there's no weight relieving and it's a arc-top.

The Viper 1000 is a way better guitar than the Epi SG Prophecy. Better build quality and materials, and no ridiculous lightning bolt inlays. Also, the Epi SG Prophecy has a slim taper-D shaped neck. It's pretty meaty.

As for a heavy guitar... dude I've played with my Dean for 2 years. It's easily over 10 pounds. If you get a thick strap, weight doesn't matter half as much.

I don't see why weight is such a problem. Why wouldn't you just get use to it instead of being a little pussy about it. No matter what shape you get, mahogany is going to be relatively heavy. So unless you want like alder or basswood, you're pretty much SOL.
#11
What is thall? THALL
Agile Interceptor Pro 727
POD HD500
Carvin DCM1000L
Behringer Rack Tuner
Carvin Rack Case
Mogami Cables
#12
Quote by Mobiusr
Would like to add some of my favorite brand guitars


P.S I know most of them have passive pickups but you can switch them out for some emgs if u like


Doesn't work like that. You need to replace the pots for 25k's, possibly rout for the battery, and replace all the wiring.
#13
hey trust me,you're going to ruin the guitar and waste your money trying to put a FR on it..If you want a FR just buy one with it in the first place..PLEASE DONT DO IT ,ok?its for your own good...

secondly,whats with the active pups for metal?there are passives that are pretty hot and can handle high gain stuff..but hey,if you dont like em,ok
#14
Quote by r0ckth3d34n
Doesn't work like that. You need to replace the pots for 25k's, possibly rout for the battery, and replace all the wiring.



No duh emgs come with 25 pots and you really dont need a rout for the battery just stick it in tremolo cavity
What is thall? THALL
Agile Interceptor Pro 727
POD HD500
Carvin DCM1000L
Behringer Rack Tuner
Carvin Rack Case
Mogami Cables
#15
Don't buy a guitar with passive pickups and a TOM bridge if you're just going to put actives and a floyd rose on it. The guitar will die, along with the tone, and your money.
There are tonnes of different guitars, just go out and try some rather then judging based on specs (best advice I've ever gotten).
What kind of sound are you looking for in a guitar, maybe I can suggest something.
-------------------------------------------
Gear:

Guitar(s): .Shecter Tempest EXTREMEEEEEE
--------------Maton CW-80

Amplification: Randall RG75 G3
#17
Quote by Mobiusr
No duh emgs come with 25 pots and you really dont need a rout for the battery just stick it in tremolo cavity


Well yes, but you can't just go and switch them out without replacing all the insides. That's what I'm getting at. I'm pretty sure the jack has to be replaced too...

Anyway, if the guitar doesn't have enough room for the battery, you would need to rout it. That's what I'm saying by "possibly."
#19
Quote by r0ckth3d34n
Dude, trust me. The EC-1000 is heavy. There's no contour on it, there's no weight relieving and it's a arc-top.

The Viper 1000 is a way better guitar than the Epi SG Prophecy. Better build quality and materials, and no ridiculous lightning bolt inlays. Also, the Epi SG Prophecy has a slim taper-D shaped neck. It's pretty meaty.

As for a heavy guitar... dude I've played with my Dean for 2 years. It's easily over 10 pounds. If you get a thick strap, weight doesn't matter half as much.

I don't see why weight is such a problem. Why wouldn't you just get use to it instead of being a little pussy about it. No matter what shape you get, mahogany is going to be relatively heavy. So unless you want like alder or basswood, you're pretty much SOL.


I know how heavy Les Paul Style guitars are, as i own one (check out my sig). It's not that i can't stand the weight, or i would have replaced it by now. I merely was hoping to get a lighter guitar so that when i switch it's not the same thing with different looks and pickups. I have a custom strap that is super thick where it fits my shoulder, so that is no problem. I play with my Epi all the time and can deal with the weight, i just wanted something different. You know, the whole variety is the spice of life thing. Also, you have no idea what you are talking about with the Viper/Prophecy SG comparison. They have almost exactly the same specs, with a few differences with minor details, but the SG has better tuning machines and it comes with straplocks. Oh, and did i mention that it's cheaper too? Here are the links to both of them. See for yourself:

Viper

SG

Other than minor details like the fret size, the nut, the Brand of bridge/stopbar, neck contour, quilted versus flamed maple and a few other visual differences, they are virtually the same guitar, but the SG has Grovers and straplocks (idk about the quality of these) Plus, it's $100 cheaper.


Quote by Pat_s1t
Well man, a whammy bar is going to cost, I dunno, twenty dollars extra on a guitar. If you'd like there's a great video on the internet as to how to whammy without a whammy bar, so you don't have to spend that whole $20. In seriousness though, I tried the Epiphone Prophecy LP and SG next to the hardtail EC1000 and I much preferred the ESP, and thus bought it. I'd say the FR version is much the same has the hardtaill, maybe just a little bit heavier. I'd recommend the ESP myself.


You are very misinformed. A FR guitar versus a non Floyd guitar is normally at least $100 difference. There is no substitute to having a Floyd either. I went through the same justification process when i bought my Epi, and believe me, i wish it had a Floyd. Go try one at your local guitar store and you'll see what i mean. There is no replacing the sound you get from one, The only exception is MAYBE a Digitech Whammy Pedal, but that's still not the same...

EXAMPLE OF PRICE DIFFERENCE:

Schecter C-1 WITHOUT Floyd Rose ($750)

Schecter C-1 WITH Floyd Rose ($900)

As you can see, they are the EXACT same guitar, but one has a Floyd Rose-style Whammy and one lacks the FR, causing a $150 price difference. So now you know.


Quote by archenemyfan
hey trust me,you're going to ruin the guitar and waste your money trying to put a FR on it..If you want a FR just buy one with it in the first place..PLEASE DONT DO IT ,ok?its for your own good...

secondly,whats with the active pups for metal?there are passives that are pretty hot and can handle high gain stuff..but hey,if you dont like em,ok


Yeah, after checking more into it, it's not worth all the effort. I'll just buy something with a FR. I want active pickups for something different. I like passives and love the sound i get with my Seymour Duncan combo i have on my Epi, i just want something a bit different. Also, i like the way that actives bring out Pinch/artificial harmonics. Say what you want, but after doing some squealies on a Gibson V, then switching to a Hellraiser C-1 using the same amp with the same settings, there is a difference in sound. It MAY have been playability, but i doubt it...i tried many different harmonics on both guitars and tried them all over the length of the strings (pick hand) and they had a better sound to them on the EMGs.
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Jun 30, 2010,
#20
Quote by Blktiger0
I know how heavy Les Paul Style guitars are, as i own one (check out my sig). It's not that i can't stand the weight, or i would have replaced it by now. I merely was hoping to get a lighter guitar so that when i switch it's not the same thing with different looks and pickups. I have a custom strap that is super thick where it fits my shoulder, so that is no problem. I play with my Epi all the time and can deal with the weight, i just wanted something different. You know, the whole variety is the spice of life thing. Also, you have no idea what you are talking about with the Viper/Prophecy SG comparison. They have almost exactly the same specs, with a few differences with minor details, but the SG has better tuning machines and it comes with straplocks. Oh, and did i mention that it's cheaper too? Here are the links to both of them. See for yourself:

Viper

SG

Other than minor details like the fret size, the nut, the Brand of bridge/stopbar, neck contour, quilted versus flamed maple and a few other visual differences, they are virtually the same guitar, but the SG has Grovers and straplocks (idk about the quality of these) Plus, it's $100 cheaper.


The EC-1000 is going to be pretty close to the same weight of your LP Standard, regardless of it being thinner or smaller. The LTD is made of better quality wood, which will be more dense and heavier. Your Epi is made out of Nato, a much cheaper and relatively lighter Asian breed of Mahogany. It's really not as light as the description makes it seem.

I have no idea? Hmmm, I guess I've never played either an LTD Viper-1000 or an SG Prophecy in my life. Interesting you should tell me that.

The LTD is made in Korea, guaranteed the Prophecy is made in China, with lesser quality materials and build overall.

They don't play anything close to the same, the necks are totally different, locking tuners > cheap Grover "machine heads." The Epi has cheap strap locks, also known for faulty wiring problems, more than likely an ebonized rosewood fingerboard over real ebony, the pearl knobs are plastic and the finish on them will rub off over time. Actually, the finish on the hardware (mainly the bridge) will begin to wear and shine...

You don't have to get either guitar for all I care, all I'm saying is the Viper-1000 is at least 3 pounds lighter than an EC-1000 and high-quality.
#21
some people have recommended schecters over it, I second that. But between those two, I say the esp.
Set Up:
Guitars:
Schecter Hellraiser C-1FR
ESP LTD EX-401
AMP: Peavey Vypyr Tube 60W
Sanpera Footpedal
#22
If you're deciding between the epi prophecy and the LTD 1000, the 1000 will definitely be better quality. I have an epi LP standard and a LTD EC 1000, and the quality all around is better on the LTD.

Having said that, the epi LP sounds better flat out. I don't think there will be much difference in sound between the viper vs prophecy though.
Guitars
Amps
#24
okay its a bitch to install a floyd or any bridge that isn't routed for it, so id say if u get the sg get a kahler 2200
Eh.
#26
Quote by r0ckth3d34n
The EC-1000 is going to be pretty close to the same weight of your LP Standard, regardless of it being thinner or smaller. The LTD is made of better quality wood, which will be more dense and heavier. Your Epi is made out of Nato, a much cheaper and relatively lighter Asian breed of Mahogany. It's really not as light as the description makes it seem.

I have no idea? Hmmm, I guess I've never played either an LTD Viper-1000 or an SG Prophecy in my life. Interesting you should tell me that.

The LTD is made in Korea, guaranteed the Prophecy is made in China, with lesser quality materials and build overall.

They don't play anything close to the same, the necks are totally different, locking tuners > cheap Grover "machine heads." The Epi has cheap strap locks, also known for faulty wiring problems, more than likely an ebonized rosewood fingerboard over real ebony, the pearl knobs are plastic and the finish on them will rub off over time. Actually, the finish on the hardware (mainly the bridge) will begin to wear and shine...

You don't have to get either guitar for all I care, all I'm saying is the Viper-1000 is at least 3 pounds lighter than an EC-1000 and high-quality.


Really? SO you are telling me that the Epiphone of ESP (LTD) makes their guitars with better quality woods? That is VERY interesting. Especially with similar pricing...also, it's made of Indonesian mahogany, whereas Gibsons are made of Honduran mahogany. I also like that you are bragging Korea over China...it's as if JUST because the SG is made in a different Asian country than the ESP it's instantly worse quality...and ESP brand locking tuners versus Grover tuners? wow...i'm glad you "know" what you're talking about....Grover has a real reputation for being "cheap" and unreliable...and machine heads is another term for tuning machines or tuners or whatever you choose to call them. Similar to how some people call it a car or some call it a vehicle. I stated that i didn't know how quality the straplocks were, but known for faulty wiring? My Les Paul had perfect wiring when i took it in to Guitar Center to have my Duncans installed. The tech told me that after seeing the quality of my guitar he had a new respect for epiphone. It had full size CTS pots, qulaity wiring and a quality switch. the only problem he had with it is he cleaned the soldering up a bit and said you could tell it was machine soldered, but that would have no effect on the actual wiring. I seriously doubt epiphone could get away with ebonized rosewood, and even if it is, are you saying rosewood isn't a quality fingerboard material? Also, Gibson uses plastic knobs on all of their guitars. The pearl part is scooped out on the knob and shouldn't even experience any wear. Last, the hardware on my Girlfriend's EC-200QM wore off back to chrome instead of the black chrome. I can upload some pics if you want, as her guitar is sitting in my bedroom right now beside my Epi. If you want to talk quality, I'll start another thread for you about those two guitars, because my Epihone has much more quality put into it than her ESP. Especially when every time i restring her guitar i can't keep the stopbar on, yet mine will only come off when extreme force is used. The only thing her ESP even has on my Epi is that the cavities on it were sprayed with black shielding, but her guitar still buzzes more than mine. Just tell me if you want me to start the quality thread.
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Jul 1, 2010,
#27
Quote by r0ckth3d34n

They don't play anything close to the same, the necks are totally different, locking tuners > cheap Grover "machine heads." The Epi has cheap strap locks, also known for faulty wiring problems, more than likely an ebonized rosewood fingerboard over real ebony, the pearl knobs are plastic and the finish on them will rub off over time. Actually, the finish on the hardware (mainly the bridge) will begin to wear and shine...

.


what the hell is an ebonized rosewood?are you talking about a ebony stained rosewood fretboard?

and wha???LTD tuners are better than grovers?I'm sorry but you're wrong there buddy

but I am with you,the LTD is better than the prophecy
Last edited by archenemyfan at Jul 1, 2010,
#28
Quote by Matt15f
If you're deciding between the epi prophecy and the LTD 1000, the 1000 will definitely be better quality. I have an epi LP standard and a LTD EC 1000, and the quality all around is better on the LTD.

Having said that, the epi LP sounds better flat out. I don't think there will be much difference in sound between the viper vs prophecy though.


How is the LTD for Drop tunings? I heard they have problems with it.
#29
Quote by Blktiger0
Long rant.


Dude...space out yer rant lawl.

I agree with the grover thing, but the rest....what?

LTD Deluxe > Epiphone

The LTD 200 series aren't even comparable here.

Just because you got lucky with your wiring doesn't mean every Epi is like that. My SG as well as my friend's LP plus top has had wiring issues where the solder just loosened enough that the pickups wouldn't properly respond.

In regards to the Viper vs the Epi:
Also straplocks wont mean much unless you pull crazy shit with your guitar. Look at the position of the strap pins on the LTD and compare them to the position of the Epi. The Epi will suffer from neck dive. I doubt it'd be as bad as my Epi, but the LTD won't have any significant neck dive because of how the strap pins are located.

And not it's not just because the LTD is made in a different Asian country. A Korean LTD will have much more attention to detail compared to a Chinese Epi. And there is good reason to believe that the wood used in the LTD is much better than the Epi.

#30
B.C Rich NJ Series all the way.
Proudly endorsed by Kamecki Guitars and WBgear!

My guitars:
-B.C Rich NJ Jr.V Deluxe (6 string guitar)
-Kamecki Custom V guitar
#31
OK, it doesn't really matter anymore which is better, the LTD or Epiphone, as i am not getting either due to the lack of a FR, but i am still not convinced that LTD is that much better. I think Epiphone still has a bad name form the 90's and early 00's when they did produce pure shit guitars, but since then they have had a huge increase in quality in my opinion. All of the Epi's i've tried lately have been pretty good, bar a few (like 5 out of 50) that seemed a little off. My girlfriend also has an Epi form when they made them in the USA (it still has the sticker) and it has much worse attention to detail than my Epi, and they are practically the same guitar (finishes are different and knobs/tuners are different) but my guitar has much better workmanship after examining both of them today.

So, say what you want, but i will stick by Epiphone for now.

I think i am gonna go with the LTD V-401DX or the LTD EX-401DX. It's pretty much just which one i decide looks better, as they are going to sound almost identical. I just wish they would put a different headstock on the V.....i think they look better with the arrow-style headstock (like the Gibsons have) or the BC Rich headstock.

Links:

V-401DX

EX-401DX

EDIT:
WOW!!! HOLY SHIT!!! THIS THING IS DEADLY-GORGEOUS.....just found this beauty on the BC Rich site.....holy shit, batman....

SO AWESOME!!!!!!

How about that? Anyone got any beef with this beast?

EDIT2:

Also, is this worth it at all?

Shred V

i LOVE Gibson V's, but idk...it has a Kahler and not a FR and it has dual EMG85's (tonal versatility?) PLUS

actually, to answer my question, no:

OVERPRICED!

I would be better off buying a faded v (my favorite...i like the nitrocellulose-less finish) and having EMG 81/85's installed and having a FR installed...it would honestly be cheaper and less of a hassle (sadly)

BUT, will the mockingbird pro x have good upper fret access like a V?
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Jul 1, 2010,
#32
Personally I'd say go for a schecter Blackjack ATX C-1 FR, Has Seymour Duncan blackouts, Floyd Rose, sound and sustain due to the archtop and bolt on. It seems it has everything you want in it, and you can find it for 800 bucks.

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-SCE-BJATXC1FR-LIST
-------------------------------------------
Gear:

Guitar(s): .Shecter Tempest EXTREMEEEEEE
--------------Maton CW-80

Amplification: Randall RG75 G3
#33
Thanks dude, but i'm down to four final axes that i'm gonna try to choose from...

Also, thanks to everyone who posted their advice on this thread...whether i agreed or disagreed with it, i still appreciate your time and insight.

I'm gonna decide between these four guitars:

ESP LTD V-401DX

ESP LTD EX-401DX

B.C. Rich Deluxe Jr. V

B.C. Rich Mockingbird Pro X

I am going to post a poll in a separate thread to help me decide between the four....thanks again for all your help

Here is the new thread:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1332930