#1
Ok I do music theory so this isn't like a un-educated question or anything but I was composing a classical piece in the key of Eb major. However there was something weird I discovered when I was playing around, I use the chords of:

Eb major (the root, nothing unusual here)

Cb major (no not B major, explained later; this is not in the key of Eb)

Db major (this is also not in the key of Eb major)

What's more the melody keeps in the key of Eb major but whenever the chords in the bass change (the above chord sequence being an example of this) the melody line acts as if it were in the key of Eb minor. The melody and bass lines keep interchanging between Eb major and Eb minor and can comfortably change and resolve between either of these two keys. I found this odd personally, has anyone ever come across something similar or can explain this 'phenomenon'?
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#2
This is what laymen would call "Ambiguity" and it's all over the Romantic era in music. Hell, that is one of the main classifiers of Romantic music!

Honestly, it just sounds like your modulating a lot or your borrowing chords from other keys. Nothing too out of the ordinary.
#3
Not sure if i had understood, but both Cb major and Db major are in the Eb minor scale, so it could be some kind of modal interchange.
#4
Quote by aleagui
Not sure if i had understood, but both Cb major and Db major are in the Eb minor scale, so it could be some kind of modal interchange.

It has nothing to do with modes... at all.

He's just borrowing chords from the parallel minor.
#6
Quote by DiminishedFifth
It has nothing to do with modes... at all.

He's just borrowing chords from the parallel minor.


Parallel minor/major is a mode. This is commonly referred to as mode mixture, so he is right. For further information, you may want to check Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony or Harmony and Voice Leading by Aldwell/Schachter.
#7
Quote by Slayertplsko
Parallel minor/major is a mode. This is commonly referred to as mode mixture, so he is right. For further information, you may want to check Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony or Harmony and Voice Leading by Aldwell/Schachter.

I'm not getting into this debate, so I'll leave it at this:

Major/Minor = Tonal
Ionian/Aeolian = Modal
#8
Quote by DiminishedFifth
I'm not getting into this debate, so I'll leave it at this:

Major/Minor = Tonal
Ionian/Aeolian = Modal

Oh yeah.

Quote by hildesaw
A minor is the saddest of all keys.

EDIT: D minor is the saddest of all keys.
#9
major is certainly different from ionian (as minor is certainly different from aeolian), but i've got to agree with plsko here, fifth. when you borrow a chord from the relative minor in a major key, what you're doing is taking a mode (a sequence of intervals), and applying your key to be the starting pitch of that mode. then you're borrowing chords from the scale that you've created by applying your key to that certain sequence of intervals. the composition is certainly not modal - far from it in this case - but this technique of borrowing chords has modes written all over it.
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#10
The Cb and Db major chords are just borrowed from the paralell minor, try adding a minor 7th to the Cb and you'll have an german 6th chord.
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Jul 1, 2010,
#11
Quote by griffRG7321
The Cb and Db major chords are just borrowed from the relative minor, try adding a minor 7th to the Cb and you'll have an german 6th chord.


...no, then you'll have a minor 7th chord. try adding an augmented 6th to the Cb and you'll have a german 6th chord.

EDIT: wait, it's a Cbmaj. he'll just have a Cb7 chord.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at Jun 30, 2010,
#13
Quote by AeolianWolf
major is certainly different from ionian (as minor is certainly different from aeolian), but i've got to agree with plsko here, fifth. when you borrow a chord from the relative minor in a major key, what you're doing is taking a mode (a sequence of intervals), and applying your key to be the starting pitch of that mode. then you're borrowing chords from the scale that you've created by applying your key to that certain sequence of intervals. the composition is certainly not modal - far from it in this case - but this technique of borrowing chords has modes written all over it.

I dunno man... maybe if it was a little more obviously modal I would agree. Until then, I'll just stick to my "borrowed from parallel minor" theory
#14
bVI to bVII is the most borrowed chord sequence from the parallel minor. Theres no technical term for that progression (maybe borrowing chords) but its extremely common. EXTREMELY common. I could easily find 50 songs that use it right now
#15
Quote by tubatom868686
bVI to bVII is the most borrowed chord sequence from the parallel minor. Theres no technical term for that progression (maybe borrowing chords) but its extremely common. EXTREMELY common. I could easily find 50 songs that use it right now

Do it. I challenge you.
#16
Quote by illmatic2594
Do it. I challenge you.

I almost typed this.
Oh yeah.

Quote by hildesaw
A minor is the saddest of all keys.

EDIT: D minor is the saddest of all keys.