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#1
So, i am trying hard to become faster and more technical. Im using a metronome and scales but i would also like to get into playing some songs. I can play a few easy metallica songs and a few other easy songs from bands like Trivium, Mayhem, As I lay dying but only the easiest. I don't know where to go from here. Even Slayer is to fast let alone any Death or Black metal. Any suggestions
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#2
Practice with the metronome, start slow and go faster when you can nail something at a speed, increase by 5 bpm every time or so, this may take weeks. Do you use a pick or fingers?
#4
Quote by Eternal Flame
listen to genres where bass makes a decent sound


Shaddup.


And use a pick if you have to. Don't have shame.
#5
Using 3 fingers may help too. But you may feel uncomfortable with it, it's all personal preference. Even if you think a song is too fast, if you slow it down with a metronome and build it up then you WILL there sooner or later. It's fool proof, just takes a while, depending on how much work you put into it.
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#6
Speed takes time to develop, so all I can say is keep practicing. The speed will eventually come, it just takes a little patience.
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#7
Thanks, i can use my right hand (2 fingered) faster than a pick. I mainly only use a 3 fingered thing for triplets but i should try to just use that the whole time. Can anyone help me with using a metronome. Is there an easy method to using it to play songs slower or is it really just a really slow process?
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#8
Quote by Rain_In_Blood
Thanks, i can use my right hand (2 fingered) faster than a pick. I mainly only use a 3 fingered thing for triplets but i should try to just use that the whole time. Can anyone help me with using a metronome. Is there an easy method to using it to play songs slower or is it really just a really slow process?

i use a 3 finger method when playing fast, its basically a bastardized version of flamenco.
which you may also want to look at, flamenco is brutally fast yet eloquent and fluid. try looking at some classical right hand guitar techniques you might be surprised how far you will go with this.

also this will lessen the need for "building up speed", youll notice that your left hand will soon follow.
Last edited by Alucard817 at Jul 1, 2010,
#9
Quote by Alucard817
i use a 3 finger method when playing fast, its basically a bastardized version of flamenco.
which you may also want to look at, flamenco is brutally fast yet eloquent and fluid. try looking at some classical right hand guitar techniques you might be surprised how far you will go with this.

also this will lessen the need for "building up speed", youll notice that your left hand will soon follow.


thanks, i will definately check out flamenco style and i'm gonna try putting the 3 finger technique to use.
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#10
Try some Megadeth songs like Holy Wars, or some Anthrax, and if you cant keep up with fingers, try using a pick.
#11
Quote by Rain_In_Blood
Thanks, i can use my right hand (2 fingered) faster than a pick. I mainly only use a 3 fingered thing for triplets but i should try to just use that the whole time. Can anyone help me with using a metronome. Is there an easy method to using it to play songs slower or is it really just a really slow process?


Getting faster is like anything else on the bass - it is a slow process, but if you apply yourself you will get there faster than you think. Start the metronome slow and make sure your technique is good, your notes are even and your movement from one string to the next is smooth. Then boost the tempo. Just doing this for fifteen minutes at a sitting can make a huge difference, and you will be surprised at how fast you make improvements.

If you are looking for something challenging that isn't played at Dragonforce speeds, try almost anything from Dream Theater. There is more than enough there to keep you busy for years, and John Myung's playing runs the gamut from rather basic eighth notes on the root to extremely complicated passages. His stuff is well worth learning.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#12
Quote by FatalGear41
Getting faster is like anything else on the bass - it is a slow process, but if you apply yourself you will get there faster than you think. Start the metronome slow and make sure your technique is good, your notes are even and your movement from one string to the next is smooth. Then boost the tempo. Just doing this for fifteen minutes at a sitting can make a huge difference, and you will be surprised at how fast you make improvements.

If you are looking for something challenging that isn't played at Dragonforce speeds, try almost anything from Dream Theater. There is more than enough there to keep you busy for years, and John Myung's playing runs the gamut from rather basic eighth notes on the root to extremely complicated passages. His stuff is well worth learning.


Thank you, i will definately work on making my notes even, clean and smooth string changing. Just take it slow, especially since im going to try to work on a 3 finger technique. And, i never really thought to try out some John Myung. I guess i just thought it would be rediculously complicated and didn't bother but i will make sure to check out some of his stuff.

Also, and i have problems with this is how do you know the note value's for tabs? yes im a failure haha
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#13
Trivium and as i lay dying aren't metal.

To help you improve your skills, play advanced multistringed songs and lots of dream theater. There are lots of other very good bands for your needs. The fine people here that aren't trolls can help you better than me.
#14
Quote by Rain_In_Blood
Thank you, i will definately work on making my notes even, clean and smooth string changing. Just take it slow, especially since im going to try to work on a 3 finger technique.

This is good. Speed is a by-product of accuracy (beat Tam to it here ). Take it slow and slowly build up speed, watching your technique all the while. Also try and develop your sense of the fretboard and muscle memory as you go, so instead of thinking where to put your fingers, you'll know where to fret by heart.

Speed means nothing if you're sloppy and/or inarticulate on the fretboard.
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#15
depends what sound you're after too. fingers are fuller (if that makes sense) whereas a pick has more attack

i've always been able to play faster with a pick, but thats mainly root note thrashing. anything that involves moving around a bit i'd use fingers. take it slow, don't dive straight in. its more stamina as well as speed!
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#16
Honestly just find a couple of songs you really like and start learning some of the riffs. Then slowly try to build yourself up to where you can play them full speed. I emphasize songs you like, so you don't get bored playing the same riff over and over.

Try stuff by bands that are known to have good bassists. Mastodon, Cannibal Corpse, Behemoth, Black Dahlia Murder, etc. I would try to pick a song that has some melody to it or it may be difficult for you to recognize the notes you are playing at slower speeds.

Mastodon's Blood and Thunder is a great song to learn. Main riff can teach you speed and string jumping, while some of the bridge riffs give you a taste of slower, winding stuff. Then the crest of the song is pure power.


Oh, and your finger options are all personal preference. I'm of the opinion that I can play just about anything I want to play with 2 fingers, and typically only use 3 to make triplet runs easier. However players like Stephan Fimmers from Necrophagist and Nick Schendzielos from Cephalic Carnage have mastered 4 finger speed playing and I'm shocked every time I watch them play lol.
Last edited by Lazarus.Bird at Jul 2, 2010,
#17
Quote by Eternal Flame
listen to genres where bass makes a decent sound

aww, cute. someone with a different opinion.

OT: Just keep working at it, and work your 3rd finger up if you're going to be doing triplets, or you could use a pick. all about the tone you want.
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#18
3 fingers, try to learn YYZ by Rush, even if you don't like rush it's a good song to build speed on. Watch Billy Shennan vids
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#19
Quote by Lazarus.Bird
Honestly just find a couple of songs you really like and start learning some of the riffs. Then slowly try to build yourself up to where you can play them full speed. I emphasize songs you like, so you don't get bored playing the same riff over and over.

Try stuff by bands that are known to have good bassists. Mastodon, Cannibal Corpse, Behemoth, Black Dahlia Murder, etc. I would try to pick a song that has some melody to it or it may be difficult for you to recognize the notes you are playing at slower speeds.

Mastodon's Blood and Thunder is a great song to learn. Main riff can teach you speed and string jumping, while some of the bridge riffs give you a taste of slower, winding stuff. Then the crest of the song is pure power.


Oh, and your finger options are all personal preference. I'm of the opinion that I can play just about anything I want to play with 2 fingers, and typically only use 3 to make triplet runs easier. However players like Stephan Fimmers from Necrophagist and Nick Schendzielos from Cephalic Carnage have mastered 4 finger speed playing and I'm shocked every time I watch them play lol.


I may try to learn some Behemoth or Black Dahlia murder. And, i was thinking of learning blood and thunder aswell. I am gonna try to use 3 fingers but if i just don't like it after a month or two i may just stick with 2 fingers and like you, only use 3 fingers for triplets. Also can anyone tell me how they use a metronome when playing songs with varying note values? It just kinda blows my mind as i can't keep up with the 16th to 8th, and so on changes metally.
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#20
As long as the song keeps the same time signature there is no issues. 16th notes in 4/4 time fit into a 4/4 click just like quarter notes do. If you're playing 16th notes there are 4 for every click (beat) so you're playing 16 of them for every 4 clicks. If playing 8ths and 16ths to a click is difficult for you, before moving to using the click with songs you might just want to use it playing scales. Play every note 4 times per metronome click.

Sorry tempo changes in a song would make it difficult too. I personally don't play along to songs with a click. It would be difficult with extreme metal because of time signature and tempo changes. Might be able to do it with some simple thrash songs.
Last edited by Lazarus.Bird at Jul 2, 2010,
#21
Quote by Lazarus.Bird
As long as the song keeps the same time signature there is no issues. 16th notes in 4/4 time fit into a 4/4 click just like quarter notes do. If you're playing 16th notes there are 4 for every click (beat) so you're playing 16 of them for every 4 clicks. If playing 8ths and 16ths to a click is difficult for you, before moving to using the click with songs you might just want to use it playing scales. Play every note 4 times per metronome click.

Sorry tempo changes in a song would make it difficult too. I personally don't play along to songs with a click. It would be difficult with extreme metal because of time signature and tempo changes. Might be able to do it with some simple thrash songs.


Alright, i may just have to work with the song as i don't know any other way to slow the songs down. Uhhh it's confusing haha
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#22
Quote by Rain_In_Blood
Also, and i have problems with this is how do you know the note value's for tabs? yes im a failure haha


No, my friend, you are not a failure. It is a crime just how many tabs there are out there that have absolutely no note values listed. You see a number on a line and I guess you're supposed to figure it out with a Ouija board.

You have three options here. First, listen to the song and get the value of the notes. As long as the bassist isn't going all over the fretboard at varying speeds, you can do this if you listen to the rhythm rather than the music. It takes a bit of practice, but you can do it.

The second option is - if your tab is available in Guitar Pro or Power Tab format - to get Guitar Pro and play the tab through that. You can have the program display the time values for the notes in tab with a click of a mouse. Plus, the program actually plays the tab, so you can see and hear the time values of the notes.

The third option is to find your piece of music written i standard notation and use the time values of those notes to interpret the tab. Even if you can't read music, it will take you all of three minutes to learn the differences in appearance between a whole note, a half note, a quarter note, etc. And it would be worth it to work on your sight reading. It isn't easy to sight-read a complicated piece like you would read a newspaper, but with study and practice you can do it. But even without that level of skill, just being able to read the notes at all is a major plus. And hey; even with the sharps and flats, there are really only 12 notes in music (microtonal stuff doesn't count, and there is no standard for notating microtonal notes anyway).

You'll get it if you work at it.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#23
Quote by FatalGear41
No, my friend, you are not a failure. It is a crime just how many tabs there are out there that have absolutely no note values listed. You see a number on a line and I guess you're supposed to figure it out with a Ouija board.

You have three options here. First, listen to the song and get the value of the notes. As long as the bassist isn't going all over the fretboard at varying speeds, you can do this if you listen to the rhythm rather than the music. It takes a bit of practice, but you can do it.

The second option is - if your tab is available in Guitar Pro or Power Tab format - to get Guitar Pro and play the tab through that. You can have the program display the time values for the notes in tab with a click of a mouse. Plus, the program actually plays the tab, so you can see and hear the time values of the notes.

The third option is to find your piece of music written i standard notation and use the time values of those notes to interpret the tab. Even if you can't read music, it will take you all of three minutes to learn the differences in appearance between a whole note, a half note, a quarter note, etc. And it would be worth it to work on your sight reading. It isn't easy to sight-read a complicated piece like you would read a newspaper, but with study and practice you can do it. But even without that level of skill, just being able to read the notes at all is a major plus. And hey; even with the sharps and flats, there are really only 12 notes in music (microtonal stuff doesn't count, and there is no standard for notating microtonal notes anyway).

You'll get it if you work at it.


Thanks, i use guitarpro when available, and when it comes to bass i have noticed that there arent many good tabs anyway, and i know the different note values so i could use that.
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#24
Try some Death. It gets you used to some more of key playing and the bass is audible.

Try Crystal Mountain
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#25
Ok, so i got Wither by Dream Theater done (not 100 percent as its a bit long and repetitive so i keep forgetting the progression) and i am working on Crystal Mountain by Death but it's not going so good haha. I feel like i just don't have the chops yet, can anyone give me some good scales i could work on and what BPMs i should work to achieve. Thanks guys for your support already so far in this thread
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#26
Quote by bass-boy-garith
Trivium and as i lay dying aren't metal.

To help you improve your skills, play advanced multistringed songs and lots of dream theater. There are lots of other very good bands for your needs. The fine people here that aren't trolls can help you better than me.

Triviums 3rd album can argueably be seen as a thrash metal album :P its not a good thrash album either imo.

Also im cutting my teeth in metal on a diet of thrash especially Anthrax,Megadeth,Metallica and Exodus.One song i really recommend learning thats goood for speed building is Caught in a mosh cause Frank Bello is a machine and its a good song aswell :P

Also Hammer Smashed face-Cannibal Corpse is alwayss worth a look its not fast but it gets you used to moving about the frets better.

If your looking into getting into extreme metal i personally think its best to cut your teeth learning thrash licks and some prog rock licks aswell especially stuff like rush.Oh and scales and knowledge is a must then it just comes together :P maybe im the odd one here xD.
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#27
Quote by Razgriz_101
Triviums 3rd album can argueably be seen as a thrash metal album :P its not a good thrash album either imo.

Also im cutting my teeth in metal on a diet of thrash especially Anthrax,Megadeth,Metallica and Exodus.One song i really recommend learning thats goood for speed building is Caught in a mosh cause Frank Bello is a machine and its a good song aswell :P

Also Hammer Smashed face-Cannibal Corpse is alwayss worth a look its not fast but it gets you used to moving about the frets better.

If your looking into getting into extreme metal i personally think its best to cut your teeth learning thrash licks and some prog rock licks aswell especially stuff like rush.Oh and scales and knowledge is a must then it just comes together :P maybe im the odd one here xD.


I was actually going to start working on thrash bands, i kinda gave up on metallica as other than for whom, cliff burton's lines are way too hard but i will definately try out some megadeth and Exodus. Im not sure how good Testament is but i'll try that as well. But, it is nice to know that that your method is working for you.

Also, i can't seem to get Hammer Smashed Face down (although i would love to as that solo is bitchin' :P) as it's way to fast for me still.

Oh, and Trivium is my favorite band. They are so brutal and i don't understand the hate they get. They aren't even metalcore, i mean their influences range from thrash to Death and Matt Heafy (lead singer/co lead guitarist) is a huge black metal fan. Maybe they are influenced by a few early metalcore bands but thats it. I don't know why they get shoved into this metalcore thing, must be because they aren't definatly death or thrash so they must be some thing. Anyway, this is way off topic so
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#28
Trivium are metalcore, but it's not an insult. They are a fantastic metalcore band.

I agree with the start slowly and build it up, but if you're doing solid sessions with a metronome, every few slow plays through try it with the song, this will give you a better feel for how you are doing and how what you are playing fits with the song.

And it is a bitch figuring out the notes, especially with faster lower stuff. I still can't figure out the the fast "this world is spinning..." bit in Pull Me Under.

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#29
picks are faster in my opinion, use a thin pick and alternate stroking. that should give you some more speed
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#30
Quote by LicenseToPunk
picks are faster in my opinion, use a thin pick and alternate stroking. that should give you some more speed


hmmm, i never thought of that. I use thick picks but i may try thinner and rock the alt. picking. Never even came to my head haha
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#31
So, this thread is about a month old but i'd kinda like to update 'cause well i have a new failure. So, i haven't really been able to play alot lately 'cause i have been on vacation and very busy but today i decided to get back into the game of bass playing. My great idea was to try and play every metallica all the way through. So, i obviously started with Hit the lights of Kill Em All. Yeah, i started and within 20 seconds i was crying.

I have no clue how to do this
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#33
Quote by thunderbritches
So which part are you not getting?


Well starting at about 0:00 :P
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#34
Lol I figured. I'm looking at the guitar pro tab just fyi. For that octave "chord" if you can't use index and middle to pick fast enough use the finger nail on either your index or index and middle as a make shift pick.

Going into the next part, I personally have to use 3 fingers to get the continual speed(I use a rmimrmimr etc pattern) but on the little runs at the end of each measure I switch to just 2. just use whats comfortable for you mate.

And practice longer than 20 seconds lol
#35
Quote by thunderbritches
Lol I figured. I'm looking at the guitar pro tab just fyi. For that octave "chord" if you can't use index and middle to pick fast enough use the finger nail on either your index or index and middle as a make shift pick.

Going into the next part, I personally have to use 3 fingers to get the continual speed(I use a rmimrmimr etc pattern) but on the little runs at the end of each measure I switch to just 2. just use whats comfortable for you mate.

And practice longer than 20 seconds lol


Thanks, imma try your techniques and see how it goes.

And i actually was at it for about a half an hour before i gave up after not being able to play any of it
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#36
for fast picking stuff, I move closer to the bridge and use the first and third finger, it makes more sense to me, because they are the same length and i'm not turning my hand sideways for even strokes, and i use the middle finger for string skipping stuff, and triplets.
works for me.
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#37
Start simple and build your way up. It's not a crime to play simple music. Start off easy, and work your way up. I tried to learn BYOB when I started playing, and I gqave up in frustration. Realize, where you are as a bassist, and then improve yourself. Work on one thing first, then another. I started off improving my speed, and I am now working on technicality. Set realistic goals.

Good luck.
#38
Quote by SMbassist
Start simple and build your way up. It's not a crime to play simple music. Start off easy, and work your way up. I tried to learn BYOB when I started playing, and I gqave up in frustration. Realize, where you are as a bassist, and then improve yourself. Work on one thing first, then another. I started off improving my speed, and I am now working on technicality. Set realistic goals.

Good luck.


I agree, but i just don't know where to start. It's like i can't play any death metal so lets go all the way back to the beginning of thrash but i still can't do it. I just don't know what to do
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
#39
Eh...death metal is a bit more mentality than actual playing, IMO. Think about the tunings that are commonly used. Power metal and old school rock/thrash tend to use E. The more "modern" rock is in drop D. Modern thrash is in D standard. Modern metal ranges from D standard to Drop A. It really just depends on the tunings and how you use them. One thing I would suggest is that you play songs that will test both your right and left hands simultaneously. But make it realistic. Just start where you know you can, then keep pushing. I started with some Papa Roach, Korn, Disturbed, ect. I then moved to some faster stuff, like System of a Down, then learned how to do some bass slaps and then went back to korn and played it right, plus a lil bit of primus, the simple stuff only. I'm now trying to go for stuff like Mudvayne, but found it's a bit much, so I'm refining my technique till I feel like I can do it. It's all in baby steps. Let me ask you this. What do you WANT to play? Name a few bands.
#40
Quote by SMbassist
Eh...death metal is a bit more mentality than actual playing, IMO. Think about the tunings that are commonly used. Power metal and old school rock/thrash tend to use E. The more "modern" rock is in drop D. Modern thrash is in D standard. Modern metal ranges from D standard to Drop A. It really just depends on the tunings and how you use them. One thing I would suggest is that you play songs that will test both your right and left hands simultaneously. But make it realistic. Just start where you know you can, then keep pushing. I started with some Papa Roach, Korn, Disturbed, ect. I then moved to some faster stuff, like System of a Down, then learned how to do some bass slaps and then went back to korn and played it right, plus a lil bit of primus, the simple stuff only. I'm now trying to go for stuff like Mudvayne, but found it's a bit much, so I'm refining my technique till I feel like I can do it. It's all in baby steps. Let me ask you this. What do you WANT to play? Name a few bands.


Hmm, I mean i would love to in the end play Death such as Necrophagist, Death, Dying Fetus and also Black Metal and classical stuff like Bach and Beethoven. Maybe i will try some Disturbed or Avenged Sevenfold. I figured that thrash would be a good starting point but even most of them were virtuosos aswell.
guitar solo - "meh, every song got one"
bass solo - "OMGZ0R U IS PRO MENZ"
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