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#1
Morally wrong? Its not like i brought my guitar or already have a amp, the guitar was from a trade and i have no amp. But this month marks 2 years of not working on the books. Just to clear things up to I'm 21 laid off of construction framing.

Money isn't to much a concern i do have a nice checking account lol but at the same time I'm still living at home with a parent. Though it isn't a big deal to him anyway because he owns so no rent for me.

So I'm stuck on what to do i have been looking for work the past year and for at least the last 12 months ive pretty much always had at least a few work applications pending.

So i need the interwebz opinions i feel a bit guilty doing it but at the same time its a musical instrument and a good hobby for people.

So what would you folks do?
#2
My taxes are going to fund your music gear?

Dammit.
WILDCARD, BITCHES!!

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#4
If you got food and a roof over your head, spend the excess. You don't actually get enough to afford either over here, so good luck to you fella.
#5
Quote by zippidyduda
My taxes are going to fund your music gear?

Dammit.



That's called welfare not unemployment. When you work your paying your own taxes toward your unemployment.

The way you are judging it is as if someone who collects food stamps uses it to fund other habits or things.
Last edited by needler420 at Jul 3, 2010,
#6
It's your money spend however you want.
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#8
You can't ask if it's morally wrong, cause everyone has different morals man.
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#9
Quote by whalepudding
What sort of amp is it?



Just a starter amp around 150.00 to 200.00 price range lol

Not buying a 1000.00 dollar amp as my first lol
#10
Quote by zippidyduda
My taxes are going to fund your music gear?

Dammit.



I'm with this guy, we, all of us Americans, are funding your music gear, where do you think the government gets the money to hand out unemployment checks?

me and everyone else.

But who cares, your money, do with it what you want, just make sure it's supporting all those green jobs that's gona save our economy.
#11
Just do it. I've bought guitars, amps, pedals, and everything you can imagine in the world of unnecessaries with scholarship/financial aid for college money. It's not my fault I get more money than the college asks for
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#12
Quote by needler420
Just a starter amp around 150.00 to 200.00 price range lol

Not buying a 1000.00 dollar amp as my first lol



May I be the first to tell you DO NOT buy a Marshall MG or Line 6 Spider, just tryin to help ya out bud
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#13
Quote by ethan_hanus
I'm with this guy, we, all of us Americans, are funding your music gear, where do you think the government gets the money to hand out unemployment checks?

me and everyone else.

But who cares, your money, do with it what you want, just make sure it's supporting all those green jobs that's gona save our economy.



Yeah but just as i stated to collect it you had to have worked. Means you contributed to this system to be able to benefit from it. So my tax paying dollars are floating in there to.
Last edited by needler420 at Jul 3, 2010,
#14
I'd rather the money stolen from my pay check by the government to go towards your amp than something useless as it most likely will
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#15
Quote by needler420
That's called welfare not unemployment. When you work your paying your own taxes toward your unemployment.

The way you are judging it is as if someone who collects food stamps uses it to fund other habits or things.



i actually traded $2200 in food stamps for a esp ex-401dx. i told the government i have kids so theyd give me more money.
#16
Quote by needler420
Yeah but just as i stated to collect it you had to have worked. Means you contributed to this system to be able to benefit from it. So my tax paying dollars are floating in there to.



Yeah, true, but I wouldn't take government money even if it was given to me, I guess that makes me old fashion, or a right wing pig, idk what kids call people with some guts nowdays.

Damn, I'm too young to be old fashion already.
#17
Quote by ethan_hanus
I'm with this guy, we, all of us Americans, are funding your music gear, where do you think the government gets the money to hand out unemployment checks?

me and everyone else.

But who cares, your money, do with it what you want, just make sure it's supporting all those green jobs that's gona save our economy.

Sorry but your unemployment is paid by your employer on your behalf to a state unemployment insurance fund. If your employer lays people off his rates go up. Get pissed at the government for raiding unemployment for use in the general fund but your tax money doesn't pay it.
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#18
Quote by ethan_hanus
Yeah, true, but I wouldn't take government money even if it was given to me, I guess that makes me old fashion, or a right wing pig, idk what kids call people with some guts nowdays.

Damn, I'm too young to be old fashion already.

You better be on the phone to the unemployment office the day you get laid off. It's your money fool.
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#19
Quote by Jackal58
Sorry but your unemployment is paid by your employer on your behalf to a state unemployment insurance fund. If your employer lays people off his rates go up. Get pissed at the government for raiding unemployment for use in the general fund but your tax money doesn't pay it.



If my taxes don't contribute from working legally then how does any ones. I see what your doing trying to get more specific on how its paid but bottom line it comes down to everyone who works pays into the system.

works legally on the books that is
Last edited by needler420 at Jul 3, 2010,
#20
I think needler420 is a pretty cool guy. eh uses unemployment to buy gear and doesn't afraid of anything.
Last edited by TheChaz at Jul 4, 2010,
#22
Quote by Jackal58
You better be on the phone to the unemployment office the day you get laid off. It's your money fool.



So, I don't need the governments help, I'm an American, if I fall, I'll pick myself up. I'm not lazy, I'm not a cheat, I'm not a liar, I'm not immoral, I have honer, I respect my country, I respect the founding fathers, I believe in the Constitution. I'm a Christian, which you may not like that bit about me, but I could care less.

And no, your employer does not pay your unemployment, there would be no point to it, why would they fire you to just end up paying you anyway? Common sense please.

Congress just tried to extend unemployment, so I think it's our tax dollars, not our past employers money. Yeah, a very very tiny fraction of it is my money, but the rest is everybody else's money that was taken from them by the government, it wasn't given to them.

So I'm not going to argue with an old grouchy man with nothing better to do than browse the pit to enforce his own opinion on people.

TS point is, it's not immoral to use your unemployment to buy your amp, that's what congress intended unemployment to do, is to keep people buying things, to stimulate the economy. I don't think it's working too well. Nobody, including me, will think any less of you if you do. But it is funny to poke fun at it for a bit.

#23
Quote by ethan_hanus
So, I don't need the governments help, I'm an American, if I fall, I'll pick myself up. I'm not lazy, I'm not a cheat, I'm not a liar, I'm not immoral, I have honer, I respect my country, I respect the founding fathers, I believe in the Constitution. I'm a Christian, which you may not like that bit about me, but I could care less.

And no, your employer does not pay your unemployment, there would be no point to it, why would they fire you to just end up paying you anyway? Common sense please.

Congress just tried to extend unemployment, so I think it's our tax dollars, not our past employers money. Yeah, a very very tiny fraction of it is my money, but the rest is everybody else's money that was taken from them by the government, it wasn't given to them.

So I'm not going to argue with an old grouchy man with nothing better to do than browse the pit to enforce his own opinion on people.

TS point is, it's not immoral to use your unemployment to buy your amp, that's what congress intended unemployment to do, is to keep people buying things, to stimulate the economy. I don't think it's working too well. Nobody, including me, will think any less of you if you do. But it is funny to poke fun at it for a bit.



That's what i was sort of trying to say everyone who works pays into it. And if i wasn't getting a amp the funding would just go towards a down payment on a mortgage. ( course it would be in till my credit could do that)
#24
Quote by ethan_hanus
So, I don't need the governments help, I'm an American, if I fall, I'll pick myself up. I'm not lazy, I'm not a cheat, I'm not a liar, I'm not immoral, I have honer, I respect my country, I respect the founding fathers, I believe in the Constitution. I'm a Christian, which you may not like that bit about me, but I could care less.

And no, your employer does not pay your unemployment, there would be no point to it, why would they fire you to just end up paying you anyway? Common sense please.

Congress just tried to extend unemployment, so I think it's our tax dollars, not our past employers money. Yeah, a very very tiny fraction of it is my money, but the rest is everybody else's money that was taken from them by the government, it wasn't given to them.

So I'm not going to argue with an old grouchy man with nothing better to do than browse the pit to enforce his own opinion on people.

TS point is, it's not immoral to use your unemployment to buy your amp, that's what congress intended unemployment to do, is to keep people buying things, to stimulate the economy. I don't think it's working too well. Nobody, including me, will think any less of you if you do. But it is funny to poke fun at it for a bit.


I'm not enforcing my opinions on anybody. And I wasn't grouchy until you said that. And you're ignorant of unemployment. Your employer pays all of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits

nemployment insurance is a federal-state program jointly financed through federal and state employer payroll taxes (federal and state UI taxes).[18] Generally, employers must pay both state and federal unemployment taxes if:

(1) they pay wages to employees totaling $1,500 or more in any quarter of a calendar year; or,[18]
(2) they had at least one employee during any day of a week during 20 weeks in a calendar year, regardless of whether the weeks were consecutive. However, some state laws differ from the federal law.[18]

And the reason it's depleted is because those god fearing assholes in congress can't keep their dick beaters off of it.

I'm not throwing my opinion around. I'm telling you how it works. Continue to be ignorant if you want.
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#25
Quote by ethan_hanus
So, I don't need the governments help, I'm an American, if I fall, I'll pick myself up. I'm not lazy, I'm not a cheat, I'm not a liar, I'm not immoral, I have honer, I respect my country, I respect the founding fathers, I believe in the Constitution. I'm a Christian, which you may not like that bit about me, but I could care less.

I'm an American too. I go to a state-funded school, I lie, I believe morals are subjective, I don't blindly follow my country, I understand the founding fathers were just people, and I believe the Constitution is just words on paper. I'm an agnostic. Oh wait, that's right, "American" is a nationality, not a lifestyle.
#26
Jackal that still equates to anyone working on the books pays into it.

In Michigan, employers pay a tax on the first $9,000 each employee makes. The amount of tax they pay is an "experience rate" which is set each year based on claims for unemployment the employer has had against it. And positive balance employer is an employer who has paid more into the system than they has been paid out in claims to former employees. A negative balance employer is one for whom more has been paid in claims than the employer paid into the system. An employer with a good experience rate probably is paying only around .06% tax on the first $9,000 an employee makes. A negative balance employer could be paying 3% or more.

There is also a FUTA or Federal Unemployment Tax which employers pay, again based on payroll. Its usually somewhere around .05%, with credit given for amounts paid into the state systems, and the Federal Government uses that money to subsidize state systems.

In Michigan, employees have to have worked at least 13 weeks for the employer. I don't know what the qualification period is in Ohio. And its intended to be paid to workers who are laid off.

At least in Michigan, if the employer contests the employees right to receive Unemployment, it means that they are arguing that the employee should be disqualified for some reason: i.e. they didn't work sufficient qualifying weeks, they were discharged for cause, the employee resigned rather than being laid off. A hearing is then held at which the Employer has the burden of proving that they employee should be disqualified. It seems like a small point, but the burden of proof being on the employer is a significant advantage to the employee. For instance, if the employer misses the hearing for any reason, and that happens frequently, the employee automatically wins.

So, if your employer is contesting your right to benefits, they are saying you should be disqualified from receiving benefits for some reason. You should carefully review the reasons you left employment and all the surrounding circumstances. It would be wise to write everything down now while your memory is fresh, rather than wait. You should also consult someone familiar with Unemployment in Ohio and seek their advice. In Michigan we are permitted not only attorneys, but there are non-attorney advocates who are familiar with the Unemployment Compensation Law and the various requirements who can appear and help for a very modest fee. A lawyer may be more expensive, but hopefully you could find one that would do this on a contingent fee basis.


The company i worked for went out of business. You can't just voluntarily quit and collect. Therefor my employer couldn't decline it, not when you want to come in but your employer can't give you hours. Once you legally worked a certain amount of time for a employer your obligated to collect benefits that the employers pays insurance for. Hence if your working any job employed legally you contribute to the system.
Last edited by needler420 at Jul 4, 2010,
#27
Quote by Ethan_hanus
So, I don't need the governments help, I'm an American, if I fall, I'll pick myself up. I'm not lazy, I'm not a cheat, I'm not a liar, I'm not immoral, I have honer, I respect my country, I respect the founding fathers, I believe in the Constitution. I'm a Christian, which you may not like that bit about me, but I could care less.
#28
Quote by needler420
Explanation

It is not a tax it is an insurance premium paid by employers. If you have a company with no employees you don't pay it. If you have a company full of contract labor you don't pay it. If you have a company full of part time workers you don't pay it. It is a payroll tax that the employer pays. You don't see it deducted on your paystub because you don't pay it. Your employer does. If you only have 1 employee you don't pay it.
Your employer pays into the UIC fund for your state. It's much the same set up as workman's comp.
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#29
Quote by justinb904
I'd rather the money stolen from my pay check by the government to go towards your amp than something useless as it most likely will

this guy's right. this is one of the best things I've seen my money go to. Still not quite fair to me. OR YOU! So whatever. Wouldn't you rather put your money in a savings account yourself and get it ALL back when you're unemployed? If you say no then you're taking someone elses money. Or you are incabable of the responsibility of saving money
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Last edited by colt34 at Jul 4, 2010,
#30
Quote by Jackal58
It is not a tax it is an insurance premium paid by employers. If you have a company with no employees you don't pay it. If you have a company full of contract labor you don't pay it. If you have a company full of part time workers you don't pay it. It is a payroll tax that the employer pays. You don't see it deducted on your paystub because you don't pay it. Your employer does. If you only have 1 employee you don't pay it.
Your employer pays into the UIC fund for your state. It's much the same set up as workman's comp.


I already know that. But anyone who works still contributes to the system call it tax or a insurance premium.
#31
Quote by ethan_hanus
So, I don't need the governments help, I'm an American, if I fall, I'll pick myself up. I'm not lazy, I'm not a cheat, I'm not a liar, I'm not immoral, I have honer, I respect my country, I respect the founding fathers, I believe in the Constitution. I'm a Christian, which you may not like that bit about me, but I could care less.


Did you mean to say you have a boner? How patriotic.
#32
Quote by needler420
Morally wrong? Its not like i brought my guitar or already have a amp, the guitar was from a trade and i have no amp. But this month marks 2 years of not working on the books. Just to clear things up to I'm 21 laid off of construction framing.

Money isn't to much a concern i do have a nice checking account lol but at the same time I'm still living at home with a parent. Though it isn't a big deal to him anyway because he owns so no rent for me.

So I'm stuck on what to do i have been looking for work the past year and for at least the last 12 months ive pretty much always had at least a few work applications pending.

So i need the interwebz opinions i feel a bit guilty doing it but at the same time its a musical instrument and a good hobby for people.

So what would you folks do?



will you make money from getting that gear in the near future? if so, then no it it isn't immoral. If not, you're a dick.
#33
Quote by colt34
this guy's right. this is one of the best things I've seen my money go to. Still not quite fair to me. OR YOU! So whatever. Wouldn't you rather put your money in a savings account yourself and get it ALL back when you're unemployed? If you say no then you're taking someone elses money. Or you are incabable of the responsibility of saving money



Now you just confused me. I can't tell if your saying buying the amp is morally right or wrong. But i have a savings.
#34
Quote by blackflag49
Did you mean to say you have a boner? How patriotic.

how can you make fun of this guy? You really think this is a bad attitude to have? You think collecting money from the goverment is good? You know what he meant.
My stuff Schecter C-1 Classic Trans Blue Schecter Tempest Custom w/ duncan distortion humbuckers
'91 Stratocaster, MIM....

Line Six Flextone II 60 watt amp
#35
Quote by ethan_hanus
So, I don't need the governments help, I'm an American, if I fall, I'll pick myself up. I'm not lazy, I'm not a cheat, I'm not a liar, I'm not immoral, I have honer, I respect my country, I respect the founding fathers, I believe in the Constitution. I'm a Christian, which you may not like that bit about me, but I could care less.



Doesn't change the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

Do it TS. Nothing wrong with it.
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#36
hell you guys are just confusing the shit out of me now. Making me become blind to sarcasm. I can't tell who's fibbing or not.
#37
Quote by colt34
how can you make fun of this guy? You really think this is a bad attitude to have? You think collecting money from the goverment is good? You know what he meant.

As long as he isn't cashing welfare checks to buy crack or something, I don't much care what TS does with his extra money.
#38
Quote by needler420
Now you just confused me. I can't tell if your saying buying the amp is morally right or wrong. But i have a savings.

Nah you get the money, it doesn't matter to me what you want to do with it. But like said earlier, the taxes you yourself pay, go towards the unemployment checks you get. Wouldn't you rather just save that money and get ALL of it back? We have to pay the government to do what they do. Why would you want to pay someone to give them your money and then have them give less back to you? Say you pay 400 bucks in taxes you have to pay the government organizations to hire people, to organize the money, etc... then say you get 300 back. That's not fair to you! And if you get more that 400 back then you ARE taking someone elses tax money. It's not fair either way is all I'm saying.
My stuff Schecter C-1 Classic Trans Blue Schecter Tempest Custom w/ duncan distortion humbuckers
'91 Stratocaster, MIM....

Line Six Flextone II 60 watt amp
#39
Quote by colt34
Nah you get the money, it doesn't matter to me what you want to do with it. But like said earlier, the taxes you yourself pay, go towards the unemployment checks you get. Wouldn't you rather just save that money and get ALL of it back? We have to pay the government to do what they do. Why would you want to pay someone to give them your money and then have them give less back to you? Say you pay 400 bucks in taxes you have to pay the government organizations to hire people, to organize the money, etc... then say you get 300 back. That's not fair to you! And if you get more that 400 back then you ARE taking someone elses tax money. It's not fair either way is all I'm saying.



I think your saying hold off in till I'm back at work and keep putting the unemployment into savings account?
#40
Quote by needler420
That's called welfare not unemployment. When you work your paying your own taxes toward your unemployment.

The way you are judging it is as if someone who collects food stamps uses it to fund other habits or things.

What I'm talking about is this ^^^ Not your situation individually, but about unemployment in genereal. Personally I know you get the money and you've got extra. Who would ever turn down the money? So you're gonna spend it somehow. If you don't spend it on an amp what would you spend it on? Something elso probably more useless and less rewarding.
My stuff Schecter C-1 Classic Trans Blue Schecter Tempest Custom w/ duncan distortion humbuckers
'91 Stratocaster, MIM....

Line Six Flextone II 60 watt amp
Last edited by colt34 at Jul 4, 2010,
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