Poll: Bugera V55 tube amp or Peavey valve king 112 50 watt tube amp
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View poll results: Bugera V55 tube amp or Peavey valve king 112 50 watt tube amp
Bugera
6 40%
Peavey
10 67%
Voters: 15.
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#1
which pickups would be better in a schecter c-1 hellraiser. the guitar is made of mahogany and quilted mapletop with rosewood fingerboard in case you were wondering about the wood. The pickups im deciding on are The EMG-X 81/85 setup or the seymour duncan AHB-1 blackouts. which would be better. i have the money for both. i play metallica, megadeth and other 80's heavy metal. and an additional question would the EMG be made in USA or mass produced ina some forgeign country where the workers get paid 5cents an hour. just wondering
#2
well, what kind of music do u play? what amp do u have?
GEAR
Guitar
Ibanez RG42DX
Peavey Valveking100
Avatar 4x12 cabinet w/ Celestion Vintage 30's
Line 6 Spider 3
DOD Flanger
Ernie Ball Strings
Bass
Dean Edge 4
Peavey TNT 135
GHS Strings
#4
i personally have found that the EMG's are more reliable, but very edgy (thats through my valveking though)
GEAR
Guitar
Ibanez RG42DX
Peavey Valveking100
Avatar 4x12 cabinet w/ Celestion Vintage 30's
Line 6 Spider 3
DOD Flanger
Ernie Ball Strings
Bass
Dean Edge 4
Peavey TNT 135
GHS Strings
#5
by edgey you mean what? ive also heard that regular EMG's sound the same in any guitar you put them in. is this true for the X series to or is the X series different from regular EMG
Last edited by GoodOl'trashbag at Jul 4, 2010,
#6
ive personally never had an experience with the X series, sorry

by edgy i mean they naturally have a nice attack, and a hot midrange, which i like for my style (metalcore)
GEAR
Guitar
Ibanez RG42DX
Peavey Valveking100
Avatar 4x12 cabinet w/ Celestion Vintage 30's
Line 6 Spider 3
DOD Flanger
Ernie Ball Strings
Bass
Dean Edge 4
Peavey TNT 135
GHS Strings
#7
i currently have regular EMG's but looking for an upgrade i heard AHB-1's were better than EMG 81/85 set. but is the X series better than AHB-1 blackouts or equal to?
#8
SD AHB-1 Blackouts are better than the common EMG 81/85 IMO.

Though the x-series is equal to the SD AHB-1.
Damn it! Disable can't use disable to disable Disable's disable because disable's disable has already been disabled by Disable's disable!
#10
normal EMG's dont let the wood your guitar made out of come through there the same in any guitar you put them in. i was wondering is the X series solved this problem or are better than AHB-1 blackouts.
#11
Ever heard of seymour duncan livewire mustaine series? that should have best thrash tone IMO cuz its based off passives
Eh.
#12
What's wrong with the EMG's in your Hellraiser? The 81TW/89 are excellent.

And, really importantly, and maybe the reason you're dissatisfied with your sound - what amp are you using?


And if you must know, EMG's are made in America, but I don't know why you care or why it matters...
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#13
Quote by GoodOl'trashbag
normal EMG's dont let the wood your guitar made out of come through there the same in any guitar you put them in.
This matters if you're playing a truly high-end guitar made of the highest quality wood money can buy. You're not playing such an instrument.

The EMG X-series and the SD Blackouts both do the same thing. They have a narrower frequency response than regular active EMG and Livewire pickups; this is the same difference between the original mismatched humbucker designs of the early '50s (regular EMGs/Livewires) and modern humbucker designs (X-series/Blackouts). What they're actually doing is cancelling more frequencies than the older designs do; instead of the wide, even tone of regular actives you get a more focused tone. This means you have less to work with. If you have a good amp and you know what you're doing, the older active designs will offer you far better response and versatility. If you don't know what you're really doing with them or if your amp plain isn't up to scratch then the Blackouts/X-Series will be a better match for you as they already have a more defined tone of their own.

I'm probably explaining this very poorly (sod it, it's 1am and I'm writing three articles at once in addition to this) but basically, that ''character'' and ''natural'' tone of modern passive pickups and Blackout and X-series active pickups is actually a less natural, cropped tone. It's covering up the true nature of your playing by missing out a lot of stuff. The older active designs don't, they capture everything; similar to piezo pickups or the original humbucker designs. This means the older pickups work at extremes - if you know what you're doing they will sound fanatastic, if you don't know what you're doing they'll sound awful.


In short: whether you pick Blackouts or EMG X pickups doesn't matter in terms of what you're trying to do, at least not with your current rig. They're not going to revolutionise your tone by themselves. If you want the character of passive pickups, go for some low or low-mid output passive pickups, which will mesh with your amp far better than actives will. If you want to stick with active pickups then I would suggest you stick with what you currently have and change amp instead (your Vox really isn't an appropriate amp to use with any high-output pickups, let alone actives of any kind). Especially given you have single coil-like modes on your guitar with the 81TW and 89 combination, that guitar can already handle anything you throw at it, provided your amp is up to the job. I think that is where your real problem lies.
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#14
my vox is a tube amp and its 50 watts its not like 15 watts. AND IM PRETTY SURE it can handle high output pickups. and the reason i asked where EMG's are made is because if its mass produced in some foreign country its obviously not going to be as good as quality. so im glad EMG's are in USA
Last edited by GoodOl'trashbag at Jul 4, 2010,
#15
Your Vox has one valve in the power amp section; it's a hybrid amp, not a valve amp. In terms of pickups, unless you have a lot of headroom, you want the preamp to be valve-based too if you're going to use high-output pickups of any kind. High-output with a solid state preamp is a waste at best and at worst can cause some very unpleasant, very harsh clipping. On top of that it, the Valvetronix amps have digital modelling software. Amp and effect modelling works best with flat, even-toned pickups with a wide frequency response and low output. It can work well with regular active pickups (original EMGs/Livewires) if the amp has enough headroom to soak up their increased output.
Frankly, a 50 watt hybrid amp doesn't have the headroom in the solid state preamp stage to take full advantage of active pickups of any design. Additionally, Blackouts/X-series would be even less suitable because their more limited frequency response will restrict how efficiently the amp's modelling can work.

So, if you're set on active pickups then you really need to change your amp to get the best use out of them (almost regardless of whether you use original EMGs, EMG X-series or SD Blackouts); changing your pickups to another type of active design with your current amp will, quite simply, be throwing your money away. If you're set on keeping your amp (which is fine - the Valvetronix series are good amps) then you'll see a vast improvement in your tone and response if you drop actives and go for some low- or mid-output passive pickups that have as wide a frequency response as possible.



Quote by GoodOl'trashbag
and the reason i asked where EMG's are made is because if its mass produced in some foreign country its obviously not going to be as good as quality. so im glad EMG's are in USA
Honestly, mass-produced in America is no better than mass-produced in Korea or China or wherever else. Mass-produced is mass-produced.
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Last edited by MrFlibble at Jul 5, 2010,
#16
Hey mrfibble,Ts not thread jacking but now that topic has shifted towards Vox Vt amps can you give me your opinion about about the 12XA7 tube?
#17
Quote by GoodOl'trashbag
my vox is a tube amp and its 50 watts its not like 15 watts. AND IM PRETTY SURE it can handle high output pickups. and the reason i asked where EMG's are made is because if its mass produced in some foreign country its obviously not going to be as good as quality. so im glad EMG's are in USA


You can have a 150W amp - if it has a solid state preamp, active pickups are going to sound like shit through them. EMG's + solid state modeling amps = ughhh not pretty. I know.

You know, it's not like America is better than everyone else. I mean, most of the time, if you get a Japanese guitar at the same price point as an American guitar, you're going to get a lot more with the Japanese guitar.

If I didn't live in America, and I was looking at America, I wouldn't want anything from here - the majority of Americans are lazy and incredibly stupid/ignorant.

In any case, when you're talking about electronics and things, man made just means more that can go wrong. I'd much rather have mass made electronics, so I can be sure of it's consistency.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
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Line 6 Pod HD500X
#18
Quote by archenemyfan
Hey mrfibble,Ts not thread jacking but now that topic has shifted towards Vox Vt amps can you give me your opinion about about the 12XA7 tube?
Sorry, specific models of valve isn't a subject I know enough about to advise anyone else on, I'm still learning the fine details myself. All I can tell you is I've used a couple of Valvetronix amps before (the 100 and I think the 15, might have been the 30) and they sounded pretty good to my ears as far as hybrid amps go, although I've still yet to hear a hybrid amp that does actually sound like a pure valve amp.

Quote by Offworld92
You can have a 150W amp - if it has a solid state preamp, active pickups are going to sound like shit through them. EMG's + solid state modeling amps = ughhh not pretty. I know.
Uh, I would disagree in the case of a 150 watt amp. By that point I would be confident that the amp has enough headroom to cope properly, at least if it was made decently enough. I certainly would never bother using active pickups with anything under 100W though.

For what it's worth, I'm now using an entirely solid state, digital modelling amp (HD147) with active pickups and it sounds great with no unnecessarily harsh clipping, although the 300W rating and the fact this amp was designed specifically with high-gain styles and pickups in mind may have a little something to do with it.
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Last edited by MrFlibble at Jul 5, 2010,
#19
Quote by MrFlibble
Sorry, specific models of valve isn't a subject I know enough about to advise anyone else on, I'm still learning the fine details myself. All I can tell you is I've used a couple of Valvetronix amps before (the 100 and I think the 15, might have been the 30) and they sounded pretty good to my ears as far as hybrid amps go, although I've still yet to hear a hybrid amp that does actually sound like a pure valve amp.


ok,thanks
#20
OK now you guys say i need a better amp with more headro to handle the EMG pickups. so ill take any RECCOMENDATIONS AT ALL. please try to be within a reasonable price range too. within 400-500 dollars. if you highly reccomend it tho tell me even if its a lil more.
Last edited by GoodOl'trashbag at Jul 6, 2010,
#21
Soo.... what's a reasonable price range?

Are we talking $30, $300, $3,000... what?

I could offer you a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier, while it might not be reasonably priced to me, it could be to anyone else who wants one.

Would a 6505+ Combo do you well? What are they, $600?
#22
Peavey Vypyr Tube 60 60W 1x12 Guitar Tube Amp. thats pretty much what iwas thinknig if you got something better by ALL MEANS PLEASE.
#23
400-500 dollars but if you if you highly reccomend something thats a lil higher price please do. only if you feel its very highly reccoemnded .
#24
The Peavey Vypyr tube amp is still like the VOX amp you have. It only has a 12AX7 preamp. It's not a real tube amp.

6505+ combo. $600.

/thread
#25
The majority of people's whose posts I read who use actives, prefer the SD Blackouts over the EMGs.

From what I've heard from what others who've posted tone tests using actives, the ones that were using SDs sounded less sterile and "plasticy" than those using EMGs.

Don't know whether this is an important consideration to the OP or not, but a lot of people who still use EMGs seem to have a hard time getting pick harmonics.
#28
For amps, look for something naturally mid- or high-gain. If it is a pure valve amp you'll want 30W or more, if it's a hybrid or solid state amp then you'll want over 100W. Bear in mind that active pickups of any kind work best at the two extremes either a pure valve amp that can be driven hard or an entirely solid state + digital amp that can take advantage of actives' precision. If you want to use active pickups, stay away from jack-of-all-trades amps.


Quote by Nightgaunt
The majority of people's whose posts I read who use actives, prefer the SD Blackouts over the EMGs.

From what I've heard from what others who've posted tone tests using actives, the ones that were using SDs sounded less sterile and "plasticy" than those using EMGs.
It's actually the other way around. Blackouts (and EMG X pickups) cancel more frequencies, giving a more restricted tone; however, this can be interpreted as ''character''. Regular EMGS (and Livewires) give a much wider frequency response, basically giving you more tone. SD's claim that Blackouts give "12dB to 14dB less noise, plus more lows, more highs, and more output. Simply put, Blackouts have more tone than other active pickups" is quite incorrect; they do give less noise but regular EMGs and Livewires already have incredibly low nosie levels so who cares about that, the output of the Blackouts specs out to be higher than EMGs but it hits the amp in a different way so they actually act as if they're lower output and "more tone"? Not at all, you get a narrower frequency resposne which means less tone.

The only problem with regular actives is they have such a wide frequency resposne that a lot of people simply don't know what to do with it. They expect to just plug in and go and without that narrow ''character'' of passive pickups or Blackouts/X-series, they struggle to get a good tone. It basically comes down to people not knowing what the hell they're doing and blaming their tools instead of themselves.

Don't know whether this is an important consideration to the OP or not, but a lot of people who still use EMGs seem to have a hard time getting pick harmonics.
Definite rubbish. You can get pinch harmonics ringing out of an acoustic if your technnique is good enough. Again, poor workman blaming his tools.



Frankly, this is exactly why the vast majhority of people should simply never go anywhere near active pickups of any kind. They're a highly specialised tool, you've got to know how to use them correctly or you will sound terrible. If you know what you're doing then great, but to be perfectly honest it is only the minority who do in fact seem to know what they're doing with actives.
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#29
since were on the topic about amps now? would the peavey valve king 112 combo 50 watt do good service for my active pick ups?
#30
Actually, it's not rubbish. I had a Schecter Hellraiser w/ 707s in it, and they were the worst pups I've ever used. Dead, lifeless, and "fake" sounding. Leads sounded especially terrible. I will never use actives again.

But bear in mind that this only reflects my personal experience w/ 707s. I have not used any of the other EMGs or SD actives, but from what I have heard, the SD Blackouts do sound more like passives compared to the EMGs.

As for being a poor workman, on what basis do you make that accusation?

Perhaps you shouldn't take digs at your pet pups so personally.
#31
Quote by GoodOl'trashbag
since were on the topic about amps now? would the peavey valve king 112 combo 50 watt do good service for my active pick ups?



Yes. Though I strongly recommend you get a new speaker for it (Eminence makes nice and affordable ones) and an eq pedal.
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#32
On the pinch harmonic note, I find it so much easier to hit them on my Explorer with EMGs than on either my RG or SZR. Granted the other two are stock pups, so I don't know how much easier it would be with some good quality passives (I'm massively GAS'ing for some Nailbombs). If you wanted standard EMGs rather than the X series you could always stick the 18V mod on - you just wire a second battery harness in series with the standard one, whack a second battery in and grab yourself a little more headroom. Once I find a spare harness (there isn't a single one in the house) I'll be doing it to my Explorer.

For amps, you could always try Bugera - the 6262 is based on the 6505+, but far cheaper. Granted the stock tubes are apparently dreadful, but they're easy enough to change.
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#33
alrighty its a show down between the Bugera V55 55watt combo tube amp and the peavey valve king 112 combo tube amp
#35
Quote by GoodOl'trashbag
since were on the topic about amps now? would the peavey valve king 112 combo 50 watt do good service for my active pick ups?


I used Blackouts on my rg through a valveking 212 for a while, pretty good set up for what you want to play imo.

But honestly, if it is at all possible find the equipment you want to play with and try it out. People can sit here and tell you what "would and would not sound good" but in the end it is all about the sound that pleases you. Yes certain set ups sound better to a majority of people but you may not be in that majority. (unless you cant find anyone with after market pickups then i guess you are stuck listening to people describe sounds with words that cant truly do them justice)
#36
if your looking at the amps in the poll, let me just say; the valveking are pretty weak tbh. Pretty much all NEW peavey amps other than the 6505 and JSX are pretty lame. Old peavey stuff was much much better imo. Check out a Peavey VTM, they are JCM 800 clones and can be found super cheap(usually between $200-300 on ebay). The VTM is pretty much what came before the 5150.

Also for $400-500 you could get a lot better amps on the used market, I would say look at the following

Peavey - 5150, 6505, XXX, Ultra
Mesa - Mark Series, Maybe a single rec if your lucky
Marshall - JCM 900 or 200
Bugera - 1960, 1990, 6260/62, 333xl, all of those will do a lot better for metal the v55
Orange - Tiny Terror
Sovtek - Mig
Some kind of Traynor.


You could get a brand new $6505 + 60 watt 212 Combo from guitar center for $600 though, so keep that in mind. These days it's seems you can really find a lot of good things on the used market for $500
Last edited by handbanana at Jul 7, 2010,
#37
i have yet another question? could you reccomend good speaker cabinets that arent to pricey?for liek a 550 dollar amp head.
#38
i hear good things about Avatar cabs They're pretty cheap.

Most people I know with half stacks use Valveking cabs with a 5150 or a 6505.
#39
Quote by Nightgaunt
[words and]
Perhaps you shouldn't take digs at your pet pups so personally.
Assumptions are the mother of all ****-ups. I have exactly one guitar with EMG pickups and the rest use a mixture of Seymour Duncan and Swineshead pickups. In fact I've spent more money on one single Swineshead pickup than I have on any active gear combined. If any pickup were to be my favoured brand or style, it would be my custom Swinesheads.
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#40
jeez fibbs i just read this entire thread and you have about 3 peoples worth of more patience then i do.

to summarize.

1. pickups have nothing to do with pinch harmonics. I can get pinch harmonics on an acoustic. I can do it with the piezos on my hb spruce. Are you guys comparing the same guitar with 2 different pickups, set up the same, same wood, same neck bow, blah blah blah. if not then useless.

2. thanks for taking advice topic starter. you guys gotta realize that most of what is popular in metal now, seven strings, active pickups etc were originally jazz tools. They aren't automatically more brootz then passive pickups or whatever. They are just different. To get the best out of them you need to understand how they work and make sure the rest of your rig accommodates their design. Listen to fibbs. He's right on the money about their tonal characteristics. Sure they'll erase a lot of the characteristics of a mid-range guitar and make them sound similar. A good guitar built to accent actives is a totally different thing altogether.

3. On the vt vox amps, changing the preamp tube is going to have some difference but not as much as it would in an all tube amp. The preamp tube in the vt series isn't really amping anything. It's basically like cheesecloth. Your signal comes in hits the dsp/modeling stuff, gets run through the 12ax7 to sweeten things up a bit and then gets pumped through the ss power amp section. Its not there to distort or produce harmonics or anything.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
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