#1
There is one thing ive been wonderin about.
Lets start of by saying i dont know any theory at all, ive been playing for 3 years but just recently try to learn some of this theoretical stuff. I know the pentatonic major/minor and the blues scale but other than that, nothing.

However, my homeboy rory gallagher uses this note alot. In the minor pentatonic A scale, its the "B". Like, "one full note from the keynote" or however i should explain it. Why does it sound good?
In my experience, i have alot more use of this note than the "blue note" that almost never use.
In Am its B, in Gm its A and so on.

Why can i use it (sometimes)? Do i "change" the key or anything?

Thanks
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Fender vibro champ XD
#2
I'm sorry to break the dream, but B is not in the A minor pentatonic scale. The "second" note in the A minor pentatonic scale is C. That's one and a half steps up from a (3 frets for those playing at home. Likewise the "second" note in the G minor pentatonic scale is A#, not A.

But you're in luck! The second note of the A minor and A major scale is B, and the second note of the G minor and major is A. What does this mean? Well you're actually referring to a part of the G or A minor or major scales, depending on the key of the song.

So learn the major and minor scales, and some key theory, it should make sense.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#3
The major scale from the root note is T, T, S, T, T, T, S (tone and semi-tone) all notes included. e.g. C, D, E, F, G, A, B

The minor scale from the root note is T, S, T, T, S, T, T (the major scale starting on the 6th note) all notes included. e.g A, B, C, D, E, F, G

The pentatonic scale from the root note is T+S, T, T, S+T, T which you might notice, is basically the minor scale without the 2nd and 6th notes.

The note you are talking about is simply a major 2nd interval (a whole tone), which appears in both the major and minor scale.
#4
Quote by AlanHB
I'm sorry to break the dream, but B is not in the A minor pentatonic scale. The "second" note in the A minor pentatonic scale is C. That's one and a half steps up from a (3 frets for those playing at home. Likewise the "second" note in the G minor pentatonic scale is A#, not A.
.

Yeah im fully aware of that. I know the minor pentatonic and i know that B isnt in the Am pentatonic scale. That why i was wondering why it "sometimes" sounds good to play it, since it isnt in the scale. Thats the bottom of my entire question.
Dont ask me why i wrote "second", but i wrote it withing the quotation marks to kinda push the fact that it isnt the second note in the scale but the "second" note if counting like "f g a b... etc"

But thanks anyway!
Fender MIM CP 50s
Fender vibro champ XD
Last edited by andreasthn at Jul 6, 2010,
#5
The notes in a Pentatonic scale are just the "safest" notes from the equivalent Major/Natural Minor so they will often sound perfectly fine.
404: Sig not found.
#6
Quote by andreasthn
Yeah im fully aware of that. I know the minor pentatonic and i know that B isnt in the Am pentatonic scale. That why i was wondering why it "sometimes" sounds good to play it, since it isnt in the scale. Thats the bottom of my entire question.
Dont ask me why i wrote "second", but i wrote it withing the quotation marks to kinda push the fact that it isnt the second note in the scale but the "second" note if counting like "f g a b... etc"

But thanks anyway!


The A minor pentatonic scale is derived from the A minor scale.

A minor A B C D E F G
A minor pentatonic A C D E G

The 2nd and 6th note of the minor are removed because, in laymans terms, those are the notes more likely to sound 'bad'.

Notes sound 'good' or 'bad' based on their relation to the notes around them so if you can learn a bit about the relationship between notes you should start to understand. When playing in A minor pentatonic you'll, usually, be playing over an A minor progression so you can choose to use those omitted notes and still be in key.
#7
Quote by andreasthn
Yeah im fully aware of that. I know the minor pentatonic and i know that B isnt in the Am pentatonic scale. That why i was wondering why it "sometimes" sounds good to play it, since it isnt in the scale.


I answered that part too...it's coming from the major or minor scale, depending on the key of the song.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#8
Quote by Myshadow46_2
The A minor pentatonic scale is derived from the A minor scale.

A minor A B C D E F G
A minor pentatonic A C D E G

The 2nd and 6th note of the minor are removed because, in laymans terms, those are the notes more likely to sound 'bad'.

Notes sound 'good' or 'bad' based on their relation to the notes around them so if you can learn a bit about the relationship between notes you should start to understand. When playing in A minor pentatonic you'll, usually, be playing over an A minor progression so you can choose to use those omitted notes and still be in key.

This.

It sounds good because, while it's not part of the A Minor Pent. it is part of the A Minor scale. Which is the parent scale to the A Minor pent.

While the long paragraph is correct, I'd like to change the bolded. What s/he's saying is correct, it's that whether or not the note choice sounds good lies a lot more in what chords are being played rather than the notes around whatever note you're on. Let's use A Minor as an example:

Am - Dm - E

A simple A Minor progression, i - iv - V. I can guarantee you that the B will sound better in the E chord as opposed to the D Minor and the A Minor. To understand this look at the notes of each chord:

A C E
D F A
E G# B

Notice how the E chord has a B already in it? It's a chord tone, and a very important one for that matter. That's why the B would sound best in the E chord. Cause it's already there and has no notes to clash with.

If you played a "B" over the other two chords it'll clash with the A's (and, depending on context, change your second chord!). It might not sound bad depending on the register (octave) it's played in or the speed it's played or even the timbre and tone of the guitar/piano/etc. playing the note. Or you just might like the sound of the clash between the B and A (hell, I just arranged a song that had the melody start on A# over a B chord)!
#9
When Rory Gallagher, or anyone else, plays the B note over an A minor chord, they are basically playing an extension to that chord. In the case of B of Am you would be playing the ninth degree, relative to the Am scale.

You might also notice if you're learning some Rory, that he's partial to using a C# over Em or F# over Am etc. This, again, is an extension to the chord, but in this case it's a note not actually in the parent natural minor scale, instead it is an accidental taken from the Dorian scale for the purpose of giving a Dorian flavour.

But don't confuse it with playing modally or anything, because you're not. You are simply using accidentals that can be said to be taken from other scales for the purpose of getting a certain sound.

Quote by DiminishedFifth
(and, depending on context, change your second chord!)


If you mean that the note will change the chord to another of the same root, I'll agree with you. But if mean mean that the chord will change to a completly different one with different harmonic function, I won't.

If the changes where written as something and you solo over them, any note you play will be relative to that chord. The actual harmonic function of that chord doesn't change dispite the "wrong" or weird notes you are playing over it. But I suppose that's my way of looking at it.
Last edited by MapOfYourHead at Jul 6, 2010,
#10
Quote by MapOfYourHead
If you mean that the note will change the chord to another of the same root, I'll agree with you.

This is what I meant. Cause if you add a B to a Dm chord, it becomes a Bdim7 chord.

EDIT: It'll still function the same as the Dm chord cause they're both function as subdominants.
Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Jul 6, 2010,
#14
Quote by DiminishedFifth
This is what I meant. Cause if you add a B to a Dm chord, it becomes a Bm7b5 (half-diminished) chord.
Fixed.

Although, with D as the root it would then be a Dm6.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#16
Quote by food1010
Fixed.

Although, with D as the root it would then be a Dm6.

Bdim7 is exactly that. We just said the same thing in two different ways ;]
Bdim + 7 = B D F A

Though... I should have put half-diminished. I can see where you would think B Diminished Seven though.
#17
Quote by andreasthn
There is one thing ive been wonderin about.
Lets start of by saying i dont know any theory at all, ive been playing for 3 years but just recently try to learn some of this theoretical stuff. I know the pentatonic major/minor and the blues scale but other than that, nothing.

However, my homeboy rory gallagher uses this note alot. In the minor pentatonic A scale, its the "B". Like, "one full note from the keynote" or however i should explain it. Why does it sound good?
In my experience, i have alot more use of this note than the "blue note" that almost never use.
In Am its B, in Gm its A and so on.

Why can i use it (sometimes)? Do i "change" the key or anything?

Thanks


It's the 9th. (not actually derived from minor pentatonic.... but from natural minor)

Why does it sound good ??..... cause we think it sounds good....... and if you want a theoretical explanation....... it functions as a chord tone.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 6, 2010,
#18
Quote by DiminishedFifth
A simple A Minor progression, i - iv - V. I can guarantee you that the B will sound more consonant in the E chord as opposed to the D Minor and the A Minor. To understand this look at the notes of each chord


FTFY.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#19
Quote by MapOfYourHead

If you mean that the note will change the chord to another of the same root, I'll agree with you.



That would depend entirely on what that 'extension' of the chord was doing. Just because you play a B over a Am chord doesn't mean it's Amadd9.

Quote by food1010
Fixed.

Although, with D as the root it would then be a Dm6.


Again, that could depend, it would most likely just be Bm7b5 in first inversion.
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Jul 6, 2010,
#20
Quote by GuitarMunky
It's the 9th. (not actually derived from minor pentatonic.... but from natural minor)

Why does it sound good ??..... cause we think it sounds good....... and if you want a theoretical explanation....... it functions as a chord tone.


agree....there are other pentatonic "chord scales"

in your example of a 9th chord...lets says C9...tones 1 2 3 5 b7/ C D E G Bb work very well against the chord itself and integrated with other traditional pent scales

the 2nd/9th tone adds a fresh flavor and a different movement to the ear..used economically it can give life to stagnant riffs

used symmetrically in minor thirds it opens options for interesting solo ventures that need not resolve to obvious points - but keep moving forward

play well

wolf
#21
Quote by griffRG7321
That would depend entirely on what that 'extension' of the chord was doing. Just because you play a B over a Am chord doesn't mean it's Amadd9.

.



What else could it be?
shred is gaudy music
#22
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Bdim7 is exactly that. We just said the same thing in two different ways ;]
Bdim + 7 = B D F A

Though... I should have put half-diminished. I can see where you would think B Diminished Seven though.
A dim7 chord is 1 b3 b5 bb7. "dim7" does not mean the same thing as "m7b5" or "ø."
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#23
Quote by food1010
A dim7 chord is 1 b3 b5 bb7. "dim7" does not mean the same thing as "m7b5" or "ø."

I know.

The way I intended it to be read was Bdim(7) (Kind of like an B7 with how the 7 implies a m7). I did write it after a 5 hour rest, so it could be one of those "sounds better in the head" things.
Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Jul 6, 2010,
#24
Quote by GuitarMunky
What else could it be?


Depending on what else he was playing it could be a passing note, appoggiatura, suspension, etc etc.
#25
Quote by griffRG7321
Depending on what else he was playing it could be a passing note, appoggiatura, suspension, etc etc.


Well assuming it's functioning as a chord tone. (otherwise why even discuss its function?)
shred is gaudy music