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#1
But Sam's Club is gonna start offering loans to small businesses.

Sauce be here.

I'm not sure how much this will mean to the non-American Pit crowd, so here's an explanation: You probably know what Walmart is, but it's a big grocery and department store known for its suspect employment practices and driving local businesses out of business with cheap goods. Sam's Club is basically the Wal-Mart for small organizations and businesses. You buy things in bulk. If you go to Walmart for light bulbs at home, you go to Sam's for twenty light bulbs at the office, for example.

Now Sam's will start offering loans of up to $25k to small businesses. There's more on it here if you want to try to read between the lines of a press release.

Discuss. Good? Bad? Indifferent? The evil octopus of Sam Walton's Empire stretching its tentacles to take over something else until you wake up in the Apartment Department, eat at the Deli, and watch movies in Entertainment?

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#3
My main question: Will there loans be granted on a higher or lower scale then a traditional bank? Will they be more lenient then a traditional bank regarding credit score and teh such.

I shop there, I add to the conglomerate monster, I don't have an option, I live in the sticks... It is what it is, a necessary evil.
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
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#4
Not surprised, just another way for them to lure in money.
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#5
Walmart is bad. BLAH!!!

Honestly, Walmart/Sam's Club is just following the model of Capitalism. I don't see the problem. Yeah, Sam's Club is offering loans. So?...If it's legal for them to basically act as a bank, why not?
#6
Who the fuck wants to borrow yuan?
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#7
Quote by GoodCharloteSux
My main question: Will there loans be granted on a higher or lower scale then a traditional bank? Will they be more lenient then a traditional bank regarding credit score and teh such.

I shop there, I add to the conglomerate monster, I don't have an option, I live in the sticks... It is what it is, a necessary evil.

Quote by from the press release
The Sam's Club small business loan pilot will focus on serving Main Street minority, women and Veteran owned small business owners as well as micro-entrepreneurs under the SBA's Premier Outreach Express products such as Community Express, Patriot Express and Export Express loans.

"Access to capital is a major pain point for our members and the small business Main Street community. We believe this pilot program is a step in the right direction to help fuel small business growth and create jobs to stimulate our economy. It's also simple to apply and costs less, which is consistent with our goal to help our members make smart choices and provide superior value," said Catherine Corley, vice president, Membership at Sam's Club.

It never really says, but that's as close as it gets.
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Walmart is bad. BLAH!!!

Honestly, Walmart/Sam's Club is just following the model of Capitalism. I don't see the problem. Yeah, Sam's Club is offering loans. So?...If it's legal for them to basically act as a bank, why not?

This thread is sort of asking the same question I have a lot of knee-jerk reactions to Sam Walton's Empire, but I couldn't really justify this one, so here I am.

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#8
There's a supermarket chain in America called Sam's Club?

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#9
Quote by Smokey Amp
There's a supermarket chain in America called Sam's Club?


Yeah, you have to get a membership card with your picture on and everything It's pretty silly, but if you need to stock a concession stand, that's your place to buy boxes of candy bars.

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#10
Quote by Smokey Amp
There's a supermarket chain in America called Sam's Club?


Yeah, sorta like a wholesale store.
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#11
Quote by SteveHouse
Yeah, you have to get a membership card with your picture on and everything It's pretty silly, but if you need to stock a concession stand, that's your place to buy boxes of candy bars.


What's wrong with that?!

There was one similar here in Norway (YES, SCARY SOCIALIST NORWAY) even. Called smart club, but a membership wasn't nescessary, but you'd save a lot of money using it though.
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#12
Interesting because I'm kind of torn if they do specialize in the lower class.

On one side it brings hope: IT gives people a second and can possibly give small towns in rural areas a chance to boost their economical situation and provide more jobs. It also puts the squeeze on a lot of banks who have become more stringent because of the glaring recession.

Knowing how these companies though: They'll try to confuse the crap out of these people, boost interest rates and take advantage of the lower class who try to bank on a dollar and a dream.
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
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#14
Quote by GoodCharloteSux
Interesting because I'm kind of torn if they do specialize in the lower class.

On one side it brings hope: IT gives people a second and can possibly give small towns in rural areas a chance to boost their economical situation and provide more jobs. It also puts the squeeze on a lot of banks who have become more stringent because of the glaring recession.

Knowing how these companies though: They'll try to confuse the crap out of these people, boost interest rates and take advantage of the lower class who try to bank on a dollar and a dream.

That's what I'm afraid of. Here's hoping their Attorney Army can't fight off regulation.

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#15
Quote by SteveHouse
Yeah, you have to get a membership card with your picture on and everything It's pretty silly, but if you need to stock a concession stand, that's your place to buy boxes of candy bars.



Sounds like a great idea, so long as membership is provided in some fair way ie - not having paid extortionate prices for but proving your a business large enough to require it.

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#16
Quote by metallicafan616
Sounds like a great idea, so long as membership is provided in some fair way ie - not having paid extortionate prices for but proving your a business large enough to require it.

Nah, you just pay a fee.
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/pagedetails/content.jsp?pageName=aboutSams

It's not anything a business that needs it couldn't afford though.

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#17
Quote by SteveHouse
That's what I'm afraid of. Here's hoping their Attorney Army can't fight off regulation.

You mean these guys?
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#18
Walmart isn't evil at all.

Give me some arguments, I'm ready to show you that you either overestimate them or underestimate everyone else.

Quote by metallicafan616
Sounds like a great idea, so long as membership is provided in some fair way ie - not having paid extortionate prices for but proving your a business large enough to require it.

People like you and I can shop there. My mom does, and she gets frozen foods and stuff there.
Last edited by captaincrunk at Jul 6, 2010,
#19
Quote by captaincrunk
Walmart isn't evil at all.

Give me some arguments, I'm ready to show you that you either overestimate them or underestimate everyone else.


Whilst I'm really not informed on the situation regarding wallmart I thought they had a pretty poor record as far as abiding by laws governing fair competition went. I'm quite willing to accept this might just be thrown around by the anti-Wallmart lot with no reason if it's not the case however.
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#20
Quote by captaincrunk
Walmart isn't evil at all.

Give me some arguments, I'm ready to show you that you either overestimate them or underestimate everyone else.

Nah, not ITT, and not with Woman's experience there so fresh. It'd be both off-topic and anecdotal evidence 100%.
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#21
Quote by leeb rocks
Whilst I'm really not informed on the situation regarding wallmart I thought they had a pretty poor record as far as abiding by laws governing fair competition went. I'm quite willing to accept this might just be thrown around by the anti-Wallmart lot with no reason if it's not the case however.

Penn and Teller did a show on it. People lobby against them, and create hype, because they don't like them. And that's fine, but some small towns have banned wal-marts. Those counties/towns then lost all business to walmart because walmart would just build one in the next city over, who was welcoming, and only a few miles away, well worth the travel for the selection they offer.

Not all of walmart is the superstores. They have purely grocery stores, mostly auto stores, and generally each store is pretty well customized to the area, they do their research. They win because they find out what you want, ship it to their store, and put it on the shelves at a low price.

Their employment practices are for another post, if someone brings it up.

EDIT: I like this loaning they're going to do. Takes a bit of strain off the banks so they can spend more money on important things like hedge funds.
Last edited by captaincrunk at Jul 6, 2010,
#22
Quote by captaincrunk
Walmart isn't evil at all.

Give me some arguments, I'm ready to show you that you either overestimate them or underestimate everyone else.


People like you and I can shop there. My mom does, and she gets frozen foods and stuff there.

I wouldn't call them evil but I don't like them and I don't shop there. Most certainly won't bank there.
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#24
Quote by sglover34479
Sam's Club:

*gives money to small business*

*drive small business under*

*recalls loan*


Small business:

*closed, in debt*



This, times 1000. Yeah, they'll give the business a loan so that when Wal-Mart begins to drive them under, they have absolutely no chance at recovering while Wal-Mart rakes in any of the profits they do make.

Wal-Mart is a shit grocery store, several other small chains that simply sell groceries thrive around here. Remke's, ftw...
#25
Quote by captaincrunk
Penn and Teller did a show on it. People lobby against them, and create hype, because they don't like them. And that's fine, but some small towns have banned wal-marts. Those counties/towns then lost all business to walmart because walmart would just build one in the next city over, who was welcoming, and only a few miles away, well worth the travel for the selection they offer.

Not all of walmart is the superstores. They have purely grocery stores, mostly auto stores, and generally each store is pretty well customized to the area, they do their research. They win because they find out what you want, ship it to their store, and put it on the shelves at a low price.

Their employment practices are for another post, if someone brings it up.

EDIT: I like this loaning they're going to do. Takes a bit of strain off the banks so they can spend more money on important things like hedge funds.




Can't say I particularly like them putting smaller business's out of business but that hardly constitutes poor practice and a lot of these small stores would do the same given the chance.
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#26
Quote by CrossBack7
This, times 1000. Yeah, they'll give the business a loan so that when Wal-Mart begins to drive them under, they have absolutely no chance at recovering while Wal-Mart rakes in any of the profits they do make.

That's terrible business sense, are you mad? "Here, let's loan them money just in time to drive them out of business so they can't pay it back!" Why would Wal-Mart be interested in losing that much money?

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#27
Quote by CrossBack7
This, times 1000. Yeah, they'll give the business a loan so that when Wal-Mart begins to drive them under, they have absolutely no chance at recovering while Wal-Mart rakes in any of the profits they do make.

Wal-Mart is a shit grocery store, several other small chains that simply sell groceries thrive around here. Remke's, ftw...

You're a ****ing idiot. You're stupid enough to think that for Wal-Mart to be successful, everyone else must fail. That's simply not the case, as you've clearly seen in your hometown. There are still many family owned grocery stores in my town as well.

And wonderful business plan you have there. Drive them into bankruptcy which would likely clear the debt.

Surely it would be easier to deny them the loan and simply buy their store? And if they wanted to do that they already would have.
#28
Quote by captaincrunk
Penn and Teller did a show on it. People lobby against them, and create hype, because they don't like them. And that's fine, but some small towns have banned wal-marts. Those counties/towns then lost all business to walmart because walmart would just build one in the next city over, who was welcoming, and only a few miles away, well worth the travel for the selection they offer.

Not all of walmart is the superstores. They have purely grocery stores, mostly auto stores, and generally each store is pretty well customized to the area, they do their research. They win because they find out what you want, ship it to their store, and put it on the shelves at a low price.

Their employment practices are for another post, if someone brings it up.

EDIT: I like this loaning they're going to do. Takes a bit of strain off the banks so they can spend more money on important things like hedge funds.


Ridiculous, if these people cared so much about their local businesses, why can't they use them instead of Walmart? Thus shutting the shop down. Instead of abandoning their old favourites, and then crying when they disappear. The mere presence of a big chain supermarket doesn't kill off a family business, people do when they shop there.
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#29
Quote by freddaahh
Ridiculous, if these people cared so much about their local businesses, why can't they use them instead of Walmart? Thus shutting the shop down. Instead of abandoning their old favourites, and then crying when they disappear. The mere presence of a big chain supermarket doesn't kill off a family business, people do when they shop there.

Well, I should have gone into more detail. Walmart offers a lot, but there's still a certain market for specialty stores. Most of the small businesses in the towns that accept Wal-Mart are well off, whereas people leave their area to go to Wal-Mart, and visit that cities small shops too.

If they hadn't made it illegal for there to be a Wal-Mart they would have had a better chance, but sadly cooler heads rarely prevail in this sort of thing.
#30
Quote by captaincrunk
Well, I should have gone into more detail. Walmart offers a lot, but there's still a certain market for specialty stores. Most of the small businesses in the towns that accept Wal-Mart are well off, whereas people leave their area to go to Wal-Mart, and visit that cities small shops too.

If they hadn't made it illegal for there to be a Wal-Mart they would have had a better chance, but sadly cooler heads rarely prevail in this sort of thing.


The emotion really should be balanced out with rationale here. For example, I prefer small, independent bookshops as opposed to Waterstone's - an emotional decision - but I realise that to keep these shops alive I must buy from them, rather than complain about Waterstone's. It's so simple, and people shouldn't act as if they are entirely enslaved by large chains. Price is an issue though, I do find it cruel how large chains will drop prices lower than small businesses can afford to, so my argument falters there.
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#31
Quote by captaincrunk
You're a ****ing idiot. You're stupid enough to think that for Wal-Mart to be successful, everyone else must fail. That's simply not the case, as you've clearly seen in your hometown. There are still many family owned grocery stores in my town as well.

And wonderful business plan you have there. Drive them into bankruptcy which would likely clear the debt.

Surely it would be easier to deny them the loan and simply buy their store? And if they wanted to do that they already would have.


You don't have to drive them into bankruptcy, you simply force them to mortgage thier buisness. Think about the housing crisis and how the banks now own thousands of homes. Walmart would just have to do the same thing. Buisnesses wouldn't even have to be in debt to Walmart as Walmart could just buy the debt on the secondary mortgage market from Fannie Mae of Freddie Mac. With the bad oversight we have right now, this has the potential of being a dangerous trend.
#32
Quote by freddaahh
The emotion really should be balanced out with rationale here. For example, I prefer small, independent bookshops as opposed to Waterstone's - an emotional decision - but I realise that to keep these shops alive I must buy from them, rather than complain about Waterstone's. It's so simple, and people shouldn't act as if they are entirely enslaved by large chains. Price is an issue though, I do find it cruel how large chains will drop prices lower than small businesses can afford to, so my argument falters there.

I don't think that's really cruel. If there are two small businesses next to each other with similar atmospheres and one lowers it's price by 5% I'd start shopping there instead, most likely.
#33
Wal-Mart is doing buisness. They won't try to scam people, it's bad for buisness. If you want to open, let's say, an psychology clinic, you are in no way a threat to them, but you need an office, to pay a receptionist, computers, furniture, phone line, internet... If you need capital, it's pretty good.

If you vary your loans, you won't pay as much interest than taking a 60 000$ loan in a single financial institution.
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#34
Quote by dylanfromearth
You don't have to drive them into bankruptcy, you simply force them to mortgage thier buisness. Think about the housing crisis and how the banks now own thousands of homes. Walmart would just have to do the same thing. Buisnesses wouldn't even have to be in debt to Walmart as Walmart could just buy the debt on the secondary mortgage market from Fannie Mae of Freddie Mac. With the bad oversight we have right now, this has the potential of being a dangerous trend.

Wal-Mart could do that without even loaning them money in the first place, silly. And again, it would be a horrible plan and Wal-mart isn't known for acting on horrible plans.
#35
We don't take kindly to their kind 'round here.

Walmart tried to open up shop in Queens and the community board drove 'em out. Although who opened in their place? Home ****ing Depot.

That whole area is full of big chains but something about "Walmart" is just viscerally offensive. My guess is the greeters.
#36
Quote by captaincrunk
Wal-Mart could do that without even loaning them money in the first place, silly. And again, it would be a horrible plan and Wal-mart isn't known for acting on horrible plans.


They could if they didn't want the debt in the form of a collateralized debt obligation. Or even if they wanted to insure the debt themselves and sell it to other unwitting banks. You can't just say it's a horrible plan, especially when the market just experienced an unparalleled time of liquidity and exotic investments.
#37
Quote by dylanfromearth
They could if they didn't want the debt in the form of a collateralized debt obligation. Or even if they wanted to insure the debt themselves and sell it to other unwitting banks. You can't just say it's a horrible plan, especially when the market just experienced an unparalleled time of liquidity and exotic investments.

If they want to acquire property, this is a bad idea. If they want to "drive people out of business", there's better, more efficient ways.
#38
There is a lot of money to be made in credit derivatives. But if that is their end game they could've certainly used better timing.
#39
Wal-Marts been struggling. They have brought back hundreds of brands that they recently weeded out, and were even selling Coke(the drink, not the good kind) at a loss.
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#40
I am all for Wal-Mart, but ever since my dad lost his job and we opened up a restaurant (two now ) we try to shop at local places more, just because we know the struggle of being the smaller power. We do that with zero resentment for the big stuff though.
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