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#1
I love that djenty Periphery sort of distorted tone.

Some other bands that have tones that I like are Animals as Leaders and Sky Eats Airplane.
but I also love cleans that can be warm or clear depending on the musical context.
The obvious answer would be an Axe FX Ultra or an ENGL Invader 100, but I don't have $2000+ to burn on an amps, so I'm looking for some recommendations or direction.

My Price Range is up to $1000 and that is a very firm price range,but keep in mind that I need to also purchase a cab, so the cheaper, the better.

Requirements, Important Information and whatnot:
1. Tube amp with 4 tubes.
2. Multiple channels
3. Awesome distortion and a lot of USABLE gain on tap.
4. Pretty good cleans, generally speaking.
5. Willing to go used

That's all I can think of up to now.


Also, just a brief side question, how are Line 6 PODs?

Thanks!
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Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

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Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
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#2
Have you researched what amps each of those bands use? British or American voicing?
Gibson Les Paul Studio
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Dean Evo
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Ampeg V2
pedals
#3
Peavey Ultra Plus, 3120, Butcher, maybe a Vypyr Tube (they actually sound better than you would expect)
6505+/5150 II
The new 6534+ is said to have better cleans too.
Mesa Rectifier, Rectoverb, Tremoverb
Mesa Mark III (read up on the stripes, they make a big difference in sound) Mark IV
Mesa DC series, F series
Line 6 Vetta (Meshuggah used them, not sure if they still do)

PODs are okay. Line 6 makes better multi-FX, though, like the M9 and M13.
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#5
Quote by Junnage

1. Tube amp with 4 tubes.


Why 4 specifically?

Giving us a wattage indiction of what you want would be a lot better.

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#6
yeah the number of tubes is a really vague, unusable description of what kind of amp you'd want. the number doesn't matter in terms of tone.
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#7
Meshuggah still uses the Line 6 stuff for the bass, but the guitarists are using Axe-Fx now I believe.

Given the OP's price range, a Peavey 5150 might be just what he's looking for in an amp.

As for Line 6, I've been using a GuitarPort for 2+ years now. They're good for the money, but can be real hard to dial in. If you do end up getting one, and what to try getting some djenty tones, go to sevenstring.org and check out their patch library. There are tons of djenty patches there. I think the Bulb guy posts his there as well.
#8
Quote by LaidBack
Have you researched what amps each of those bands use? British or American voicing?


Yes.

Periphery used to use ENGL Invaders (German-Voiced) and now they use Axe FX Ultra rigs. Animals as Leaders...well Tosin Abasi also uses an Axe FX Ultra rig. I think Sky Eats Airplane either uses the 6505+ or some other new amp recently.

Quote by Raijouta
Peavey Ultra Plus, 3120, Butcher, maybe a Vypyr Tube (they actually sound better than you would expect)
6505+/5150 II
The new 6534+ is said to have better cleans too.
Mesa Rectifier, Rectoverb, Tremoverb
Mesa Mark III (read up on the stripes, they make a big difference in sound) Mark IV
Mesa DC series, F series
Line 6 Vetta (Meshuggah used them, not sure if they still do)

PODs are okay. Line 6 makes better multi-FX, though, like the M9 and M13.


Never heard of the Ultra Plus. Didn't like the 3120, Butcher or the Vypyr Tube. I'll look into the 6505+/5150 II, but I've heard less-than-nice things about their cleans. I'll definitely try out the 6534+, which I believe has El34's?

The Mesa Rectifiers are not tight enough. Which mark III stripe? Would the Mark IV have enough gain on tap?

Don't like the DC or F series.

Never tried the Vetta. Will look into them.
Quote by Chrisiphone
Why 4 specifically?

Giving us a wattage indiction of what you want would be a lot better.

No wattage indication relatively speaking... although around 100 watts would be ideal (80-120?). But aside from the fact that I like the headroom from 4 instead of 2, I just like the feel and sound of 4 tubes working hard than 2 working hard. It's a personal thing, and it's possible it could just be in my head.

Quote by htsktim91989
yeah the number of tubes is a really vague, unusable description of what kind of amp you'd want. the number doesn't matter in terms of tone.


See above.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#9
The Ultra Plus was the XXX before the XXX. MatrixClaw has/had one, he liked his alot, even more than an XXX. PM him, maybe.

For the Marks, which stripe depends entirely on your personal preference. You can see what each of them is like here, and then find sound clips at like www.netmusicians.org : http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/dot.html

As for the Mark IV, it should have enough gain on tap, I know they have plenty. About the Rectifiers, have you tried a two-channel model, and were you running it through a Recto cab? The Recto cabs' tremendous bass coupled with the Rectifier's already-huge bass might be exacerbating the looseness you're hearing.

Yes, the 6534+ has EL34s, as well as a reworked clean channel and a bias pot, I think.

Have you checked out Soldano? You might find a Hot Rod 50 or 100 in your price range.

I'd also check out the Jet City Amps JCA100 or JCA50, they're clones of the SLO. Also look into Rivera, you might find a Knucklehead within your price range. Maybe Framus or VHT/Fryette also, you can sometimes find them for near-$1000.
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#10
Quote by Junnage
No wattage indication relatively speaking... although around 100 watts would be ideal (80-120?). But aside from the fact that I like the headroom from 4 instead of 2, I just like the feel and sound of 4 tubes working hard than 2 working hard. It's a personal thing, and it's possible it could just be in my head.

Please don't think of it as 4 versus 2 power tubes.
An amp could have 2 power tubes and only be 15 watts. While an amp that has 2 particular power tubes might be 50 watts, an amp could have 4 different power tubes and be only 30 watts. Even still, an amp could have 4 particular types of power tubes and be close to 200 watts.

One thing notable is that amps that have 100 watts of power often have bigger transformers, simply because they need them. This can, though not necessarily be noticeable to everyone's ears, as having more bottom end and a thicker sound.
That's not to say an identical amp with 50W of power can't sound as big, either.

tl;dr? Measuring an amp's capacity by number of tubes is a silly thing.
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Jul 6, 2010,
#11
Quote by forsaknazrael
Please don't think of it as 4 versus 2 power tubes.
An amp could have 2 power tubes and only be 15 watts. While an amp that has 2 particular power tubes might be 50 watts, an amp could have 4 different power tubes and be only 30 watts. Even still, an amp could have 4 particular types of power tubes and be close to 200 watts.

One thing notable is that amps that have 100 watts of power often have bigger transformers, simply because they need them. This can, though not necessarily be noticeable to everyone's ears, as having more bottom end and a thicker sound.
That's not to say an identical amp with 50W of power can't sound as big, either.

tl;dr? Measuring an amp's capacitor by number of tubes is a silly thing.

I understand what you're saying, but that's not what I meant with wattage. I was saying that while I may be wrong, it's just a personal thing, I just prefer it, so just respect and honor my apparently 'crazy' request while suggesting an amp.

Quote by Raijouta
The Ultra Plus was the XXX before the XXX. MatrixClaw has/had one, he liked his alot, even more than an XXX. PM him, maybe.

For the Marks, which stripe depends entirely on your personal preference. You can see what each of them is like here, and then find sound clips at like www.netmusicians.org : http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/dot.html

As for the Mark IV, it should have enough gain on tap, I know they have plenty. About the Rectifiers, have you tried a two-channel model, and were you running it through a Recto cab? The Recto cabs' tremendous bass coupled with the Rectifier's already-huge bass might be exacerbating the looseness you're hearing.

Yes, the 6534+ has EL34s, as well as a reworked clean channel and a bias pot, I think.

Have you checked out Soldano? You might find a Hot Rod 50 or 100 in your price range.

I'd also check out the Jet City Amps JCA100 or JCA50, they're clones of the SLO. Also look into Rivera, you might find a Knucklehead within your price range. Maybe Framus or VHT/Fryette also, you can sometimes find them for near-$1000.


Okay, will check out the XXX then. I'm now addicted to that website and am looking up all sorts of clips hahaha. And sweet, I will definitely look again at the Mark IV, but I have to find and try one again in stores, which is hard since they are discontinued. And yes, I've tried a two channel and three channel model, but both through the oversized Recto cab.

Good to know, I definitely want to check that 6534+ out! And will check out Soldano and JCA.

I haven't heard the nicest things about Framus, particularly about their cleans. I tried the Rivera Knucklehead and didn't like it. Also, VHT/Fryette wasn't quite the sound I was trying to get either, unfortunately.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
Last edited by Junnage at Jul 6, 2010,
#13
Quote by forsaknazrael
I am explaining to you why higher wattage amps sound and feel different, as it has nothing to do with two tubes working hard verses four of them.
of course headroom factors into it as well. A tube pushed into power amp distortion will sound and feel differently than one that is not.

Okay, I was saying two separate things there.

1. 80-120 watts for my purposes with regards to practicing with a band, gigging, etc.

2. I just like the sound and feel of 4 tubes as opposed to two. I've tried a myriad of amps with different wattages and 4 tubes and with 2 tubes (some with the 2 tube amps having higher wattages). And I don't know why, but it's just a personal thing that all of the amps with 4 tubes just sounded better to you.

You can sit here and argue that it shouldn't matter and that it doesn't matter, but frankly I don't care. I explained that I might be wrong and it's just a personal thing, so once again, just please respect and honor that request if you are actually going to suggest an amp.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#14
Ooh, I just thought of some more high gain amps. What about the Peters Chimera? Not sure if it's in/out of your price range. Also check out Splawn, you can find a used Quickrod for ~$1K.

Also check out Mako and Baron (particularly the K88). Have you considered Randall, by the way? There's the Randall RM stuff, and I think some of the modules would be right up your alley, particularly the Salvation mods stuff. You can hear all of the modules here: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=909142&content=music
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#15
Quote by Junnage
Okay, I was saying two separate things there.

1. 80-120 watts for my purposes with regards to practicing with a band, gigging, etc.

2. I just like the sound and feel of 4 tubes as opposed to two. I've tried a myriad of amps with different wattages and 4 tubes and with 2 tubes (some with the 2 tube amps having higher wattages). And I don't know why, but it's just a personal thing that all of the amps with 4 tubes just sounded better to you.

You can sit here and argue that it shouldn't matter and that it doesn't matter, but frankly I don't care. I explained that I might be wrong and it's just a personal thing, so once again, just please respect and honor that request if you are actually going to suggest an amp.

Really? So if you find an awesome amp but it doesn't have the right amount of tubes you're just gonna pass ?
#16
Quote by Junnage
No wattage indication relatively speaking... although around 100 watts would be ideal (80-120?). But aside from the fact that I like the headroom from 4 instead of 2, I just like the feel and sound of 4 tubes working hard than 2 working hard. It's a personal thing, and it's possible it could just be in my head.

Its entirely in your head, because you obviously don't know much about tube amps or the role tubes play in them. What you are trying to say is you want a 100 watt amp. The number and type of tubes in the power amp decides the wattage of the amp, so you can't have a 2 tubes running at 100 watts then 4 of the same tubes also at 100 watts. Also you are completely forgetting the preamp...

Basically the headroom and what-not you talk about is wattage, not number of tubes. Forget about the tubes thing for now.

Edit: If you're 'crazy' requirement were at least acknowledging the pre amp I might 'honor' it, but since you obviously don't know half as much as what you are trying to make us think you do I can't help but try to inform you. A high gain amp with 4 power tubes will likely have at least 7 tubes total. So again, if your 'personal opinion' were based on some concrete fact I'd ignore it, but since its based on a complete misconception I can't.
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Last edited by tubetime86 at Jul 7, 2010,
#17
Quote by Raijouta
Ooh, I just thought of some more high gain amps. What about the Peters Chimera? Not sure if it's in/out of your price range. Also check out Splawn, you can find a used Quickrod for ~$1K.

Also check out Mako and Baron (particularly the K88). Have you considered Randall, by the way? There's the Randall RM stuff, and I think some of the modules would be right up your alley, particularly the Salvation mods stuff. You can hear all of the modules here: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=909142&content=music

Thanks for your help so far.

Would I be able to find any of those amps in a store?

Also, I have been looking at some random stuff. Some other people recommended me the V2 and the T2. How would they fare?

Quote by tubetime86
Its entirely in your head, because you obviously don't know much about tube amps or the role tubes play in them. What you are trying to say is you want a 100 watt amp. The number and type of tubes in the power amp decides the wattage of the amp, so you can't have a 2 tubes running at 100 watts then 4 of the same tubes also at 100 watts. Also you are completely forgetting the preamp...

Basically the headroom and what-not you talk about is wattage, not number of tubes. Forget about the tubes thing for now.

Edit: If you're 'crazy' requirement were at least acknowledging the pre amp I might 'honor' it, but since you obviously don't know half as much as what you are trying to make us think you do I can't help but try to inform you. A high gain amp with 4 power tubes will likely have at least 7 tubes total. So again, if your 'personal opinion' were based on some concrete fact I'd ignore it, but since its based on a complete misconception I can't.


Once again I said "You can sit here and argue that it shouldn't matter and that it doesn't matter, but frankly I don't care. I explained that I might be wrong and it's just a personal thing, so once again, just please respect and honor that request if you are actually going to suggest an amp."

You can post in my thread about how I "obviously don't know half as much as what trying to make [you] think do." And I don't completely disagree with you. I know that I don't know much about the inner workings and guts of the tube amp. I mean, I have a general idea of what is what, but not so much an idea of what everything does and how different parts affect stuff. What I know about amps is what I've absorbed by playing through a whole lot of them.

I never tried to come off as if I was a Gear Guru, but if I did (and obviously offended you), then I'm sorry. But that's besides the point, since your comment still remains quite rude and almost obnoxious. And generally speaking, when you're trying to make your point, it's good to not write/type/talk with a condescending tone.

The reason I posted this thread was to get recommendations of an amp(s) to perhaps check out and not to be treated like an ignorant child who talks like he knows what he's talking about, put down like I am somehow inferior, or to be given grief about the fact that I'm a quirky human being and not 100% right.

I guess this goes back to that old saying: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

I put this out there to any other people posting in this thread, do not bring this up again or I will frankly ignore your suggestions and report your post.


To those that have honored my request and have posted suggestions, I thank you all so far!
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#18
You probably won't find any of the Salvation modules in stores, but the stock Randall modules are pretty good at what they try to be, and are far more available than any of the custom module makers. As for Peters, Mako, Baron and Splawn, they're all boutique builders, so maybe you won't find them...

I know kylendm has a Baron K88 and a Randall RM100M, maybe check out his clips and threads, shoot him a PM or two.

I have no idea about the Randall amps outside of the RM series, really.

Have you checked out the Ampeg VH140c/SS140c, or the Crate GX130c or GT3500H? Very tight and articulate amps, and you can find them for dirt cheap. They're all in the same family of high gain, high quality solid state amps.
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Last edited by Raijouta at Jul 7, 2010,
#19
Check out the Randall RT series. Those are just within your price range and sound pretty good. Should be able to get a good dejent sound with proper EQing

The V2 and T2 amps are pretty good too from what I've herd though I'm not very familiar with them.
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#20
Quote by Junnage
Okay, I was saying two separate things there.

1. 80-120 watts for my purposes with regards to practicing with a band, gigging, etc.

2. I just like the sound and feel of 4 tubes as opposed to two. I've tried a myriad of amps with different wattages and 4 tubes and with 2 tubes (some with the 2 tube amps having higher wattages). And I don't know why, but it's just a personal thing that all of the amps with 4 tubes just sounded better to you.

You can sit here and argue that it shouldn't matter and that it doesn't matter, but frankly I don't care. I explained that I might be wrong and it's just a personal thing, so once again, just please respect and honor that request if you are actually going to suggest an amp.

I have addressed WHY you prefer those kind of amps, and explained WHY it doesn't necessarily have something to do with those factors YOU are looking at.

You are simply not reading my posts.

You like the sound of higher wattage amps because you like the clean headroom, and because bigger amps often have bigger transformers and a larger power filtering section. This CAN (but not necessarily be the only reason why...) create an extended low end and a deeper sound. It has nothing to do with the number of power tubes - There are 30 watt amps with 4 power tubes.

I am simply trying to correct your understanding of why you prefer these amps, I DO NOT CARE if you like them or not.


Please try and read posts thoroughly. Doing so and making the effort to understand the information we have put forth is just as much of a sign of respect for us, as the kind of respect you are asking for.
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Jul 7, 2010,
#21
Quote by Raijouta
You probably won't find any of the Salvation modules in stores, but the stock Randall modules are pretty good at what they try to be, and are far more available than any of the custom module makers. As for Peters, Mako, Baron and Splawn, they're all boutique builders, so maybe you won't find them...

I know kylendm has a Baron K88 and a Randall RM100M, maybe check out his clips and threads, shoot him a PM or two.

I have no idea about the Randall amps outside of the RM series, really.

Have you checked out the Ampeg VH140c/SS140c, or the Crate GX130c or GT3500H? Very tight and articulate amps, and you can find them for dirt cheap. They're all in the same family of high gain, high quality solid state amps.

Thanks for the heads up. I will look into those too haha. I figured that Baron, Splawn, Peters and Mako were boutique builders haha. I was hoping maybe you knew a dealer or two.

Quote by justinb904
Check out the Randall RT series. Those are just within your price range and sound pretty good. Should be able to get a good dejent sound with proper EQing

The V2 and T2 amps are pretty good too from what I've herd though I'm not very familiar with them.


Awesome. Will check them out as well. I haven't seen a lot of these Randalls in local stores, so I'm currently looking for a place to try them.

Quote by forsaknazrael
I have addressed WHY you prefer those kind of amps, and explained WHY it doesn't necessarily have something to do with those factors YOU are looking at.

You are simply not reading my posts.

You like the sound of higher wattage amps because you like the clean headroom, and because bigger amps often have bigger transformers and a larger power filtering section. This CAN (but not necessarily be the only reason why...) create an extended low end and a deeper sound. It has nothing to do with the number of power tubes - There are 30 watt amps with 4 power tubes.

I am simply trying to correct your understanding of why you prefer these amps, I DO NOT CARE if you like them or not.


Please try and read posts thoroughly. Doing so and making the effort to understand the information we have put forth is just as much of a sign of respect for us, as the kind of respect you are asking for.

I know you have and I have read your posts carefully and learned quite a bit from there. And as I stated in one of my previous posts, I have played 30 watt amps with 4 power tubes and liked it better than some 2 tube 60 watt amps, etc. I appreciate your effort to correct my understanding and respect you for it.

Sorry, I was a little angry and annoyed after reading your post and while writing my post. I was out of line when I wrote that I didn't care about what you had to say. My deepest apologies.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
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Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#22
Quote by Junnage
Thanks for the heads up. I will look into those too haha. I figured that Baron, Splawn, Peters and Mako were boutique builders haha. I was hoping maybe you knew a dealer or two.


Splawn has a few dealers. They usually don't stay in stock long though. Baron and Peters are direct only and IIRC Mako is only making a preamp right now until they redo the whole line. You'd have to take a chance with them all but the Peters, Mako and Baron are all extremely popular for downtuned metal.
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Gibson R0 Prototype
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#23
don't forget that there were probably more differences between the two amps than the number of tubes. I would assume that there were plenty.
Again, just trying to point out that the number of tubes is not necessarily the defining characteristic of an amp.


My favorite budget-ish amp for modern metal is a Peavey JSX. Gets plenty "djenty", as you put it.
#24
there are 60 watt amps with only 2 jubbalytootablies? haha. when I first read the ts I was like only 4 toobs? that's not enuf. but I was too busy laying smackdowns to respond. Good thing john took care of it. he's a lot nicer then I am.

Here's the information bomb.


Requirements, Important Information and whatnot:
1. Tube amp with 4 tubes.
2. Multiple channels
3. Awesome distortion and a lot of USABLE gain on tap.
4. Pretty good cleans, generally speaking.
5. Willing to go used

I understand that 1000 is a firm limit but keep in mind that oftentimes things are priced like 999.99 then you gotta add tax or whatever. If you have some flexibility 1000-1200 is the sweet spot. you don't have to budget more then 300 for a 412 or a 212. If your not picky you will get a cab for that price. It's most likely going to be a marshall lead, a mesa rectifier 412 or a avatar 212.

You are in kind of a pickle with your budget though...

I've never played any peaveys or the evh 5150 so I can't comment on them. People say the cleans aren't great but the distortion is so keep that in mind when you are testing.

I see that you didn't like the k-tre or the vht/fryette. Which vht/fryette did you try? Did you like the cleans on the k-tre?

I'm on a big vht/fryette kick right now. If you tried the cl or the clx I can see that not working for what you want. I think the deliverance has a ton of gain on tap. Used deliverance heads are going for 800-1000 right now. used.

The mark iv will have the gain you need. Used heads are selling for 1000-1300. used

You'd probably be more interested in the splawn nitro then any of the others. 1100-1600 used.

How many channels do you need? do you need an fx loop? well I just looked and if you need separate cleans I'm guessing yes.

Engl powerballs and fireballs are in your price range.

I'm going to admit that I really have no clue what djenty means. but it's like chugga chugga?

I really like soldano amps. A used hot rod avenger xl+ is right in your price range. the 50w at least, the 100w is a bit more.

The new jca100 or 50w are also in your price range. They can do chuggachugga. They aren't like the most famous chugga chugga amps ever made but they can do it.

I'm surprised you didn't like the k-tre though. Shadows Fall uses them all over a couple of their albums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbe3eQmp3mQ

is there no djent here?
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#25
Quote by mmolteratx
Splawn has a few dealers. They usually don't stay in stock long though. Baron and Peters are direct only and IIRC Mako is only making a preamp right now until they redo the whole line. You'd have to take a chance with them all but the Peters, Mako and Baron are all extremely popular for downtuned metal.

Hmm, although this might not be the smartest decision, I'm probably not going to get the Peters, Mako or Baron because I have no way of trying it and I can't always trust demos and videos and stuff. I will still check out Splawn though. Are there any others than the Quickrod or Nitro that you would recommend?

Quote by forsaknazrael
don't forget that there were probably more differences between the two amps than the number of tubes. I would assume that there were plenty.
Again, just trying to point out that the number of tubes is not necessarily the defining characteristic of an amp.


My favorite budget-ish amp for modern metal is a Peavey JSX. Gets plenty "djenty", as you put it.


I see what you were trying to say. Don't worry haha.

I'll look into the Peavey JSX. Haven't had much experience with it as a metal amp in mind.

Quote by AcousticMirror
there are 60 watt amps with only 2 jubbalytootablies? haha. when I first read the ts I was like only 4 toobs? that's not enuf. but I was too busy laying smackdowns to respond. Good thing john took care of it. he's a lot nicer then I am.

Here's the information bomb.


Requirements, Important Information and whatnot:
1. Tube amp with 4 tubes.
2. Multiple channels
3. Awesome distortion and a lot of USABLE gain on tap.
4. Pretty good cleans, generally speaking.
5. Willing to go used

I understand that 1000 is a firm limit but keep in mind that oftentimes things are priced like 999.99 then you gotta add tax or whatever. If you have some flexibility 1000-1200 is the sweet spot. you don't have to budget more then 300 for a 412 or a 212. If your not picky you will get a cab for that price. It's most likely going to be a marshall lead, a mesa rectifier 412 or a avatar 212.

You are in kind of a pickle with your budget though...

I've never played any peaveys or the evh 5150 so I can't comment on them. People say the cleans aren't great but the distortion is so keep that in mind when you are testing.

I see that you didn't like the k-tre or the vht/fryette. Which vht/fryette did you try? Did you like the cleans on the k-tre?

I'm on a big vht/fryette kick right now. If you tried the cl or the clx I can see that not working for what you want. I think the deliverance has a ton of gain on tap. Used deliverance heads are going for 800-1000 right now. used.

The mark iv will have the gain you need. Used heads are selling for 1000-1300. used

You'd probably be more interested in the splawn nitro then any of the others. 1100-1600 used.

How many channels do you need? do you need an fx loop? well I just looked and if you need separate cleans I'm guessing yes.

Engl powerballs and fireballs are in your price range.

I'm going to admit that I really have no clue what djenty means. but it's like chugga chugga?

I really like soldano amps. A used hot rod avenger xl+ is right in your price range. the 50w at least, the 100w is a bit more.

The new jca100 or 50w are also in your price range. They can do chuggachugga. They aren't like the most famous chugga chugga amps ever made but they can do it.

I'm surprised you didn't like the k-tre though. Shadows Fall uses them all over a couple of their albums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbe3eQmp3mQ

is there no djent here?


Haha I've considered tax and stuff like that. That's why I put the budget at $1000. I have tax and shipping in mind with that price. And with the cabs, I'm pretty set on a Fryette Fatbottom 2x12.
VHT/Fryette-wise...oh man I forgot which amp of theirs I tried. It was either the Deliverance 120 or the 100CL.

With regards to the Ktre, what I remember is that it was a little bit too...trying to think of a word to describe it. I guess it was a little bit too bright for my tastes. While I do like a clear clean sound so I can hear every note in a chord, this clean sound was just a little bit too...I guess spanky?

I will have to try the Mark IV again as I can trying it out with a different sound and context in mind. Hopefully I can find one around used that I could try.

I love the ENGL Powerball II that I tried recently. It was actually exactly the kind of distortion that I was going for with most of the clean tones I wanted as well. The only problem with that is that it's new so I haven't seen any used and new, it's twice my budget, lol.

ENGL Fireball...didn't have a chance to try that one I think. Would you suggest the 60 or the 100?

"Djent: The onomatopoeia of a heavily palm muted distorted guitar chord which is usually played as but not limited to a 4 string double octave powerchord, and as a result sounds much more metallic and sonically present than a "chug" "chugga" or "djun" per se, and which is basically how Periphery would describe its palm muted guitar sound."

A good example if the first riff in the song "Insomnia" by Periphery.

With regards to # of channels, at least 2. The more, the better I guess? I don't know anything about FX Loops and stuff like that, but I've been told to have one just to case.

I'll check out the Soldano and JCA's, but I haven't found any local dealers unfortunately.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#26
I haven't tried the fireball but I tried the powerball and I liked it.
You're talking about the first few chords in that song?

hmm the deliverance might be too thick for that sound except in the dimed gain1/gain 2 setting.
i feel like the sig/x could do it.
I feel like an avenger could go it.
the powerball as well.

Never played a fireball. Rokket has. maybe he will chime in.

this is my buddy's band. http://www.myspace.com/dnmvnm
He plays a soldano avenger with the gain at 3 and the master at 7-8 for his live shows. So that tone he's got is about a third of how saturated and gainy the avenger can get.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
Last edited by AcousticMirror at Jul 8, 2010,
#27
What about the Marshall JCM 900 SL-X, the JCM 800KK (lacks a clean channel, unfortunately) or even the JVM? I know the JVM has some bad press, but Satriani seems to do just fine with one.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
What the hell is a G&L.



Quote by Flux'D
Gay & Lesbian I think, the box smelled funny
Greg what did you send me??
#29
I dunno if the jvm I tried was broken or not but I dimed the gain and my first thought was is this it?
to be fair though I also thought that for the 15 minutes I was jangling around with the powerball. Except the powerball sounded good.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#30
When I played a Road King, Roadster and Triple Rec, I thought the same thing.

I now know I was doing it wrong, so I'mma play 'em again tomorrow and see what happens...

Also Satch seems to get a bunch of gain out of his JVMs.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
What the hell is a G&L.



Quote by Flux'D
Gay & Lesbian I think, the box smelled funny
Greg what did you send me??
#31
I remember not being ever thinking "woah that's so much gain" until I played my first avenger.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#32
Quote by AcousticMirror
I haven't tried the fireball but I tried the powerball and I liked it.
You're talking about the first few chords in that song?

hmm the deliverance might be too thick for that sound except in the dimed gain1/gain 2 setting.
i feel like the sig/x could do it.
I feel like an avenger could go it.
the powerball as well.

Never played a fireball. Rokket has. maybe he will chime in.

this is my buddy's band. http://www.myspace.com/dnmvnm
He plays a soldano avenger with the gain at 3 and the master at 7-8 for his live shows. So that tone he's got is about a third of how saturated and gainy the avenger can get.

Yeah, like the first few chords in the song. I will look into the Sig/X and the Avenger. Isn't the Sig/X the one with KT88's?

The Powerball as in the first one (either version) or the Powerball II?

Hopefully Rokket will chime in.

Interesting stuff you're buddy's band is playing. My only problem with the Avenger is that according to the website, it's a single channel amp.

Quote by Raijouta
What about the Marshall JCM 900 SL-X, the JCM 800KK (lacks a clean channel, unfortunately) or even the JVM? I know the JVM has some bad press, but Satriani seems to do just fine with one.


Hmm, never really thought about the JCM 900 SL-X. I remember that the distortion was pretty cool with the Beast part of the JCM 800KK, but it's lack of a clean channel made me sad haha. I tried the JVM a couple of times and got some good tones, but not the ones I was really going for. I'll try it again though.

Quote by forsaknazrael
Yeah, the JSX is more versatile than metal, but it's got plenty of gain on tap, and can easily be coaxed into a heavy voicing. It's my go to metal amp for trying out guitars at Guitar Center.


Sweet! Any ideas for settings to try?
Quote by AcousticMirror
I dunno if the jvm I tried was broken or not but I dimed the gain and my first thought was is this it?
to be fair though I also thought that for the 15 minutes I was jangling around with the powerball. Except the powerball sounded good.

I'm pretty sure that's part of what I thought with the JVM, actually haha. The Powerball II blew me away with its gain though. Adjusting the Clean/Crunch gain is a bit difficult, though. Luckily for me, I didn't really use the Crunch channel.

Quote by Raijouta
When I played a Road King, Roadster and Triple Rec, I thought the same thing.

I now know I was doing it wrong, so I'mma play 'em again tomorrow and see what happens...

Also Satch seems to get a bunch of gain out of his JVMs.


What were you doing wrong with the Road King, Roadster and Triple Rec?

And yeah. Is Satch using a boost of some sort?

Quote by AcousticMirror
I remember not being ever thinking "woah that's so much gain" until I played my first avenger.


Must find a local Soldano dealer.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
Last edited by Junnage at Jul 8, 2010,
#33
How about a used Mark III? They go for under $1000 used. What you need for djenty tones is very tight aggressive high gain, and a boost in front will also do good to further tighten up and give it that "djenty" feel. I'm thinking a boosted Mesa Mark (III) would be awesome for this.

John Petrucci got a fairly djenty tone on their song for the God of War soundtrack with his Mark (IV or V), should give you an idea of the general Mark tone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMJYWdL5YBc
#34
I dunno what I was doing it wrong, I just know I was. I couldn't get more gain than blues/classic-rock levels.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
What the hell is a G&L.



Quote by Flux'D
Gay & Lesbian I think, the box smelled funny
Greg what did you send me??
#36
Quote by Ignite
How about a used Mark III? They go for under $1000 used. What you need for djenty tones is very tight aggressive high gain, and a boost in front will also do good to further tighten up and give it that "djenty" feel. I'm thinking a boosted Mesa Mark (III) would be awesome for this.

John Petrucci got a fairly djenty tone on their song for the God of War soundtrack with his Mark (IV or V), should give you an idea of the general Mark tone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMJYWdL5YBc


I actually love that tone...but that's probably partly because John Petrucci is an amazing guitarist hahahaha.

Quote by Raijouta
I dunno what I was doing it wrong, I just know I was. I couldn't get more gain than blues/classic-rock levels.


Haha that's definitely not right hahaha. Are you sure you were tweaking the gain for the right channels...and were using the right channels? I literally got BTBAM-butt****loadofgain, so I can't believe you only got blues/classic-rock levels. Hmm.
Quote by forsaknazrael
Ah, I used to have a pic of our settings. Not anymore.




In that case, any general guidelines (i.e. boost the mids)?
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#37
Bump.

Did not like the 5150/6505 or the 5150 ii/6505+. While the lead sound was good, it was WAY too much of a one-trick pony to me.

No luck finding any Peavey XXXs, Soldanos, JCA's, Mark III's, Mark IV's, etc.


Any other suggestions?
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#39
Quote by forsaknazrael
Gosh, that's a lot of amps off the table.

nothing on your craigslist? You could pretend to buy, just to try em out.


The fact of it is that it's harder and harder to find what you like in local stores.

I know unfortunately =(.

I'm hoping that a Recto + Boost and Noise Suppressor will be good, I mean especially considering that Jake from Periphery used to use that sort of set-up.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#40
Quote by Junnage
I know you have and I have read your posts carefully and learned quite a bit from there. And as I stated in one of my previous posts, I have played 30 watt amps with 4 power tubes and liked it better than some 2 tube 60 watt amps, etc. I appreciate your effort to correct my understanding and respect you for it.

Sorry, I was a little angry and annoyed after reading your post and while writing my post. I was out of line when I wrote that I didn't care about what you had to say. My deepest apologies.

sorry, i haven't read all the posts too thoroughly, but here are some things you should look for.

the two tube, four tube thing is okay. but electrically it is ridiculous. the amp gurus on this forum would probably flame you for it. when you're talking to musicians that like tube amps, you're just the same as everybody else.


the things that will influence tone, headroom, etc... is unlimited. theres so many things that can govern your tone, response from the amp... it's pretty insane. here are some that you might want to know about the power amp section:


1) number of tubes WILL initially govern the power output. if an amp has a multiple of two output tubes, it's probably in push pull, which will have less THD (total harmonic distortion) compared to single ended, and it'll generate more power (more than twice of the single ended), and much more efficient. an output section rated 50w will be CLEAN until 50w, then it will start distorting. same with 100w, you're not going to saturate the signal until you reach 100w output. theres a huge thread in GG&A right now that's got a heating discussion about this. this is talking about headroom. the number of tubes wouldn't affect the tone THAT much though. usually:
EL84 output tubes:
1 tube ~ 5w (this is single ended) valve jr and other little 5watt amps.
2 tubes ~ 15~18w Vox AC15, Marshall 18w, Fender Blues jr, etc.
4 tubes ~ 30~36w Vox AC30, peavey classic 30, etc.

EL34 output tubes:
1 tube ~ 10w (this is single ended) windsor studio is this config i think? my amp build is.
2 tubes ~ 40~50w JCM800s and other "hot rod" marshalls had these
4 tubes ~ 80~100w 100w versions of the above amps use this config.

you get the idea.


2) the TYPE of output tubes used will govern the power output, and the tone/affect it has on the output section. most people who's somewhat educated will believe that EL34s have looser bass response, more mid attack, crunchy breakup. opposed to that, 6L6s to have tighter bass response, less focused mids, and smooth breakup. you might want to look at these details more.


so ya, these kind of information might enlighten you with more detailed, correct amp choices that's RIGHT for YOU. whenever I ask questions about which amplifiers to buy, i only see people's response as a direction, guideline, or just options to what you can look at. it's their taste, not yours. but who's buying it? you. so yah. look into some more details. you can get a lot of information from these forums. some people are dicks, but some try to help you too! (i'm not trying to be the dick. but if i seem like it, sorry)

and of course, even with the number of output tubes, and the type of output tubes you like, it might sound RADICALLY different. it's definitely possible to have a smooth, scooped mids, smooth breakup from an EL34 output section. it's only a guideline. there's not much set theory. although, it's hard to get 50w from a single EL34 output section. just FYI.

good luck
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


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