#1
so i started extreme modding my Epi LP, and im at the painting/finishing point. i have the paint on the neck, and i have like 3 coats of clear coat. its satin clear coat, and there is a tiny sheen which is normal, but it doesnt feel any different. it still feels like raw dry paint. and there are ugly little bubbly lookin things. so what did i do wrong? did i put too much, too little, wrong timing?
open to any suggestions except sanding down and repainting.
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#2
you got orange peel. could be the humidity. if your using a spray can poly then 3 coats is no where near enough. your gunna have to sand down the orange peel parts and spray more
#3
I had a hell of a time trying to clear coat a neck (using a can). If you spray it too thin - Blochy, too thick - Runs. Then the little bubbles would appear.

A better option is to use a professional compressor and get straining cones from a PPG dealer. Some people have also used nylons. This eliminates orange peel.
1. The SG stands for “solid guitar.”
#4
i tend to like brush on poly. not as many coats and goes on thick
#5
Quote by Marrowoflife

A better option is to use a professional compressor and get straining cones from a PPG dealer. Some people have also used nylons. This eliminates orange peel.


Can you explain this amazing fact to me? Exactly how, does straining your paint eliminate Orange peel?
Quote by Cal UK

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#6
Quote by Skeet UK
Can you explain this amazing fact to me? Exactly how, does straining your paint eliminate Orange peel?


Isn't orange peel a result of drying speed and interaction with other solutions? ...not the result of poor consistency.
#7
Quote by -MintSauce-
Isn't orange peel a result of drying speed and interaction with other solutions? ...not the result of poor consistency.


Nope, Apparently it is because you didn't strain your paint

OK, enough of these shenanigans.

Orange peel is UNAVOIDABLE...period. If you are very good at spraying, with an HVLP or LVLP gun and perfect conditions and a correctly thinned final clear...you will still get orangepeel. It might be very minor, whereby buffing is enough to get rid of it...but it will be there. I will point out, that I consider any surface that has not been level sanded, to have orangepeel. As I said, it may be very minor, but if it refracts light, to me, it is orangepeel. If it hasn't been level sanded, it isn't as good as it can be.

It is a dimpling of the paint that is a by product of physics and air pressure.

Paint droplets, don't stick together on the surface and flow out.

This is caused by them drying out (losing solvents) before they get to the surface.
So spraying from too far away...spraying badly...not enough gun pressure...too high a temperature...wrong thinners for the temperature...too long between coats...clear to thick...will all give you orangepeel.


It can be very bad, especially if you try and spray too thick a clear coat (not apply it thick, spray it thick), or too high pressure.

Wetsanding will flatten the peaks down to the troughs and level the surface.

If you mix your own paint (not in a spray can) then straining your paint into your gun IS a VERY good idea.
There are all sorts of bots of crap, clumps and stuff that can get into the paint, so straining it out will improve the finish...but a bit pointless if you are spraying outside coz you will still get crap in your paint.

So. Straining your paint, will NOT eliminate Orangepeel...not even a tiny bit.
Quote by Cal UK

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Last edited by Skeet UK at Jul 7, 2010,
#8
well, im spraying in my garage with the door open, and i have a fan to keep the airflow good. i hate stuffy rooms with stagnant air. >
anyways, im spraying from the distance it tells me to, 6-8 inches...
so do i just have to deal with it?
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#9
Quote by Dr.Tong
well, im spraying in my garage with the door open, and i have a fan to keep the airflow good. i hate stuffy rooms with stagnant air. >
anyways, im spraying from the distance it tells me to, 6-8 inches...
so do i just have to deal with it?


Show us some pics dude.

You will have overspray and orange peel maybe some runs.

You need to wet sand the clear, so that you flatten the finish, then you can buff it up a touch for a satin finish.

Be careful with the fan. You don't want to blow away your paint while you are painting, after painting, turn on the fan and leave the area.
Quote by Cal UK

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Last edited by Skeet UK at Jul 8, 2010,
#10
i dunno how to do pics hahaaha
its already a satin finish, i dont really like gloss
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#11
Quote by Dr.Tong
i dunno how to do pics hahaaha
its already a satin finish, i dont really like gloss


Yes, but when you have wet sanded it to get rid of all the crap that is on it, it will be smooth but matte...so you will need to buff it a touch to get the satin finish.
Quote by Cal UK

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#12
ok so how many coats would you suggest?
now if i do a coat, then i see orangepeel, do i just leave it or wet sand it?
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#13
Quote by Dr.Tong
ok so how many coats would you suggest?
now if i do a coat, then i see orangepeel, do i just leave it or wet sand it?


Normally I would suggest 3 coats at a time. Spray it, leave it 10 mins or so so it is still tacky then spray another coat, then do that again. Then let it dry fully, wet sand it to about P800 then another 3 coats as before, then wet sand it and either do 3 more coats or buff it up.
Quote by Cal UK

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#14
ok groovy, thanks a lot dude, you saved my guitars neck
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#15
Quote by Skeet UK
Can you explain this amazing fact to me? Exactly how, does straining your paint eliminate Orange peel?


Well - I was recalling the last time that I painted a car and straining the paint was a great help so I was trying to pass that along. I think you are probably correct that this will not help with orange peel, but **** you and your pompous tone when I was only trying to be nice, asshole.

There was a small device which came with the compressor (bolting on to the hose before the gun) which I distinctly remember the guy at the rental shop saying it would help with orange peel.

Later Asshole Central
1. The SG stands for “solid guitar.”
#16
Quote by Skeet UK
Normally I would suggest 3 coats at a time. Spray it, leave it 10 mins or so so it is still tacky then spray another coat, then do that again. Then let it dry fully, wet sand it to about P800 then another 3 coats as before, then wet sand it and either do 3 more coats or buff it up.


P800, is that the grit of the sand paper or some degree to which i sand?
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#17
While I'm not so sure what the P stands for, it is the grit of sandpaper.

And marrowoflife, try not to be so butthurt, he did go a little over the top, although especially on this forum, it is never good to give out wrong information as it can cause a lot of damage and waste. While it may not have been as serious in this context, there are some places where it can be very bad.


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#18
hey hey heyyy nooowww everybody, theres no need to fight! as long as the information isnt so incorrect that it would destroy my project, its all good. i dont even have a paint strainer! i dont even know what paint straining is! hahaha, so really theres nothin to be fightin bout!
saaall guuud! 8)
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#19
Quote by MonkeyLink07
While I'm not so sure what the P stands for, it is the grit of sandpaper.

And marrowoflife, try not to be so butthurt, he did go a little over the top, although especially on this forum, it is never good to give out wrong information as it can cause a lot of damage and waste. While it may not have been as serious in this context, there are some places where it can be very bad.

They use different sandpaper grit numbers in Europe and the States, so P is the european stuff. I think P800 is about the equivalent of 500 grit in North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper#Grit_sizes
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#20
Quote by Marrowoflife
Well - I was recalling the last time that I painted a car and straining the paint was a great help so I was trying to pass that along. I think you are probably correct that this will not help with orange peel, but **** you and your pompous tone when I was only trying to be nice, asshole.

There was a small device which came with the compressor (bolting on to the hose before the gun) which I distinctly remember the guy at the rental shop saying it would help with orange peel.

Later Asshole Central


Yep, straining paint is a very good idea, so well done for passing that on.

If you do not wish to be on the receiving end of my sarcastic tongue, then do not post something with supreme confidence (which is what you did), when actually...you aren't too sure and don't really understand the concept of what you are talking about.

You have to remember, that people will read what you have written, do it and then be disappointed. If you said, "I think/heard this can help with orange peel, but I am not sure", then no problem.

The device attached to the compressor will likely be a water trap. When a compressor does it's thing, it creates water in the tank and hose line. This water, will screw up a paint finish big time if it gets to your gun. Hence a water trap, will trap condensed water. What it doesn't do, is trap water vapour. Unless the air runs through a dryer, it usually has huge amounts of water vapour in it. Also bad.
Further more; big compressors are not usually Oil Free, which means that there will be Oil in the air as well. Very bad.
For spraying, you want clean dry air which means that it should ideally pass through a water trap, then air filter, then coalescer (oil trap) then a desiccant dryer.

Quote by Baconfish
They use different sandpaper grit numbers in Europe and the States, so P is the european stuff. I think P800 is about the equivalent of 500 grit in North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper#Grit_sizes


That's right. Over here it is FEPA grade paper which are prefixed "P" and in the USA etc, they more commonly use CAMI grade paper.
You can get P graded paper in teh USA though, if you want it.

If you head over the the Ultimate Painting Thread, I have just posted a long ass jobbie on painting something. Might help you OP.
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Last edited by Skeet UK at Jul 13, 2010,
#21
ok so i talked to my grandpa today (dont underestimate him, he's had his fair share of garage work with sculpting beach wood) and he said the orangepeel was caused by oil (from fingers n stuff) that i didnt wash away. so he agrees with the 3 coats, 10 min apart, wet sand 800 grit (he says 800 US rather than 500) but he says i should sand the existing finish with the wet 800, then clean it with like varnish thinner i think he said, and then wet cloth wipes, let it dry for a few hours to be sure, THEN do the 3 coats, 10 min apart etc.
how does that sound?
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#22
sounds good. when you are letting it dry for the few hours make sure you have it in a room where it wont get dirty or dusty. and right before you paint it wipe it with a clean dry cloth just to remove any dust that built up on it in the mean time
#23
ok, thanks man
im doing this in the garage so thats a pretty dusty and dirty place, would somewhere like the living room be better or like a bathroom? i say bathroom because my parents' bathroom is friggen spotless.
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#24
Quote by Dr.Tong
ok so i talked to my grandpa today (dont underestimate him, he's had his fair share of garage work with sculpting beach wood) and he said the orangepeel was caused by oil (from fingers n stuff) that i didnt wash away. so he agrees with the 3 coats, 10 min apart, wet sand 800 grit (he says 800 US rather than 500) but he says i should sand the existing finish with the wet 800, then clean it with like varnish thinner i think he said, and then wet cloth wipes, let it dry for a few hours to be sure, THEN do the 3 coats, 10 min apart etc.
how does that sound?


Grandparents are a great source of info as they have seen and done a lot...not too sure what carving drift wood has to do with painting though.

Let me assure you, that my information comes from learning from people who do paint jobs costing 10's of thousands of dollars/pounds. As such, my information is second to none, but I do not take credit for the techniques, I am simply passing it on.

Orange peel is caused by what I said it is caused by.

Oil from your fingers and other contaminants will cause you problems, but if they are there, it does not matter how much paint you put on it, the paint won't stick...period.
Which is why, ideally you don't get any contaminants there in the first place and any that are there, are removed without adding to the problem.

The 10 mins apart is a guide. Time is not relevant, only when the paint is ready for another coat...is relevant, which is why I told you how to tell when it is ready.

800 CAMI grade is the equivalent of P1500. Do not do this. You are not sanding the primer or first levels of clear smooth. You are removing dust and orangepeel and KEYING the surface for the next coat to stick to.
If the surface is too smooth, the paint won't stick, which is why I told you to use P600-800 and P320 for the wood and first coat of primer.

How are you going to wipe down your sanded primer or sanded clear coats with Lacquer Thinner, without screwing up what you have painted? And White Spirit leaves a residue (contaminant).

Water won't remove the contaminants.

Letting it dry for a few hours "to be sure" is not the way to do it.

Whatever primer you use, needs to cure fully. The HOK needs to flash (dry) as described...this should take minutes, not hours. The clear coat needs to flash between coats as described and then cure for 24 hours.

So overall, it sounds like you will do it, however you feel like doing it, so probably the best thing would be grab some rattle cans and do it in the garden.

I assume you don't mean spray in the bathroom or house at all? That will make you unpopular fairly quickly.

If you want to keep dust down, spray the area with water.
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Last edited by Skeet UK at Jul 14, 2010,
#25
I found when clear coating my bass it looked blotchy and I think it was because I did the coats to lightly because the parts I did thicker looked good apart from the runs so I tried sanding it down and spraying it thick while the guitar is lying down to help prevent runs. this looked like it was going to work but then I forgot about it and started sanding other things and got dust all through it so I cant tell your how it turned out.
#26
well my grandpa finishes all of these sculptures with various oils/varnishes/finishes etc.
well i bought 2 sheets of 600 grit (i dunno whether its P but i bought it Canada cuz thats where i live) wet sandpaper, i thought that should be ok, i mean im not sanding down to the wood again, i just want to rough up the existing coats of finish and try to minimize or get rid of the orangepeel.

so Street UK, with what i have, and what i plan to do, either correct me, or praise me
you said in the garden so basically i could just put it on the grass (with some protection) and spray?
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#27
Quote by Dr.Tong
well my grandpa finishes all of these sculptures with various oils/varnishes/finishes etc.
well i bought 2 sheets of 600 grit (i dunno whether its P but i bought it Canada cuz thats where i live) wet sandpaper, i thought that should be ok, i mean im not sanding down to the wood again, i just want to rough up the existing coats of finish and try to minimize or get rid of the orangepeel.

so Street UK, with what i have, and what i plan to do, either correct me, or praise me
you said in the garden so basically i could just put it on the grass (with some protection) and spray?


Skeet UK

If it doesn't say P600 on the back, then it will be CAMI 600 which is P1000 and a bit too fine for spraying over. I would get some 400 if I were you, and some 800- and some 1000 all CAMI grade.

Use the 400 first, and between clear coats, then use the 800 and 1000 on your final clear coat.

Hang it, don't lay it down.
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