#1
He agreed to have 20 shirts and 10 sweatshirts made for us. The guy doing them wouldn't tell him how much he was going to charge us for making them, he said he'd let us know eventually. (I had no idea any of this was going on by the way...) So a couple weeks go by and now the kid tells the guitar player that they have been made its going to cost us $690. That would make the shirts $15 and the $40 (or however you want to figure the math.) Point is, this kid is telling us what we already know saying "you can sell them at a higher price for a profit."

Obviously we know that. But no one is going to buy a $20 shirt or a $50 sweatshirt from a band they don't even know.

He didn't sign anything, so there will be no legal troubles, but I am contacting this kid (who is 18, same age as us) and telling him we aren't buying.

We have had t-shirts made before, but they were much cheaper than this.

What I want to know is if we are right in doing this? I feel like its kind of a dick move becuase he now has a bunch of shirts with our name and logo on them, but how can he expect people to buy shirts when they don't even know how much they are. Has anyone gotten into something so ridiculously stupid before?
#2
He deserves to get stuck with all those shirts, he's trying to rip you off. Don't feel guilty about it, it's his own fault.
My name is Danny. Call me that.
#3
Quote by asator
He deserves to get stuck with all those shirts, he's trying to rip you off. Don't feel guilty about it, it's his own fault.

This.
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#4
he's probably trying to make a profit out of it too, so just say... look... i'll buy em at this price... if he says no, then just say you keep them... and obviously he'll want something rather than nothing, and he'll start to shit himself, and deal done.

But yeah, dumb kid. He's definatly gotta learn the hard way

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#5
Why did you let him continue with the production without knowing the precise price. If he's good at his work he most definitely knows exactly how much it would cost for a certain number of shirts. You brought the situation on yourselves, haha.
#6
I think it's bad business on his part not to tell you how much you needed to pay. So its his own fault that you're not gonna pay him. You're totally in the right!
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#7
Actually, do this.
Quote by julzius
he's probably trying to make a profit out of it too, so just say... look... i'll buy em at this price... if he says no, then just say you keep them... and obviously he'll want something rather than nothing, and he'll start to shit himself, and deal done.

But yeah, dumb kid. He's definatly gotta learn the hard way

Toodles!



Quote by SeriousMan
Why did you let him continue with the production without knowing the precise price. If he's good at his work he most definitely knows exactly how much it would cost for a certain number of shirts. You brought the situation on yourselves, haha.

Umm, no. Re-read the OP. He said he didn't know how much it would cost, and never told them until it was done. They definitely didn't bring the situation on themselves. It's entirely the kid's fault.
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#8
Quote by asator
Actually, do this.


Umm, no. Re-read the OP. He said he didn't know how much it would cost, and never told them until it was done. They definitely didn't bring the situation on themselves. It's entirely the kid's fault.


That's my point. Getting a person who doesn't "know" how much a precisely defined number of shirts will cost that he will make is stupid. He knew all right, but the point was not telling them till it was made. It's they're fault for not declining him for that unprofessional approach. It's a kid screwing over other kids, quite expectable.
#9
Then he deserves to get screwed over in return, doesn't he?
My name is Danny. Call me that.
#10
Quote by SeriousMan
That's my point. Getting a person who doesn't "know" how much a precisely defined number of shirts will cost that he will make is stupid. He knew all right, but the point was not telling them till it was made. It's they're fault for not declining him for that unprofessional approach. It's a kid screwing over other kids, quite expectable.


exactly, this is why I'm so pissed, I was never told about any of this.

As an update, the kid put this all on his business credit card and owes the bank, and just got his bill a couple days ago. He's demanding we give him the money now. He wants us to write a check for him, I told him none of us had that much money to just hand out in our bank accounts. I am pretty much done dealing with so much drama. I feel really bad as he needs money for college, but said he can't run a business out of his own pocket and expect to come out even. So whatever.
#11
Don't feel bad for him. He's trying to rip you off...

Make him an offer.
My name is Danny. Call me that.
#12
Actually you've got an ok position here. You can offer him some humorously low price, which he will most like accept seeing as the shirts he made are of an unpopular band. Who will buy them for such a price anyhow? The only thing you need here is a merciless attitude while confronting him.
#13
I think we may be missing some information. This guy had the shirts made for you, did he just take care of the business end or did he do graphics work and such too? Because that factors in.

Having had shirts made, if they're one color, one sided prints, then $9-12 for a T shirt and $25-30 for a hoody is about what you would expect to pay. If you can't hammer anything out, have him show you a receipt and paying his cost may be the best way to go.

Also, for anyone to commit to buying something without knowing how much it's costing, that's not a smart move. Having numbers beforehand is good.
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#14
In the absence of a market price, I'd opt for offering him the market value for whatever. I'll just use a popular website to rack prices against.

So lets say there's 20 shirts with your band logo on, go $10 a shirt? So there's $200

Then 10 sweatshirts, about $20 each? Another $200.

I'm giving quotes based on basic clothes and designs. Unless there's anything special about these specific shirts/hoodies, I wouldn't expect to pay too much more/less.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#15
He's seriously ripping you off big time. I don't know about hoodies but I bought our band shirts for 4 euro (5$) each. It's his own fault just make him either sell them for a reasonable price or let him keep his shirts.
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#16
Wow....

First, you should never have agreed to let him do it without you knowing what it would cost. If he didn't know how much it would cost, he should have found out and then let you know so you could decide to go ahead or not. To not know numbers, assume it's okay to go ahead and make the shirts, and then give you a price is bad business.

I agree that it is HIS business. He needs to learn how to run it. Bands book bad gigs. Restaurants find they need to overhaul their menus. Stores discover that they'd do a lot better if they moved to another location. All businesses have growing pains and this sounds like his.

I agree to offer him a fair price. Get a quote from someone else as to how much *they* would charge for such an order and of similar quality. Offer him that.

We sold our band shirts for $15. The shirts themselves broke down to something like $8/shirt plus setup and printing per order of 20 shirts came out to a total cost of about $10/shirt based on buying an order of 20.

Now, whereas $8/shirt might sound a bit expensive, when you compare them to the $4/shirt ones, ours were really MUCH better. Ours were Gildan shirts, 100% cotton, 10 oz weight. By comparison, the $4 shirts were a "no-name" brand with poor stitching and poor collars, etc. They were cotton/polyester and were so thin you could practically spit through them... like 4oz weight. They just screamed "cheap!" We were willing to spend twice as much per shirt to get something that we wouldn't be embarrassed to sell, and that people won't pick up, look at, and put down.

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#17
Quote by asator
Don't feel bad for him. He's trying to rip you off...

Make him an offer.


Exactly what I did. I told him we'd buy for $300 or he gets nothing. He said no at first but he gave in. I'm probably going to end up giving him another hundred if they are quality shirts, not cheap prints that will rub off in the wash, though.

Quote by asator
I think we may be missing some information. This guy had the shirts made for you, did he just take care of the business end or did he do graphics work and such too? Because that factors in.

Having had shirts made, if they're one color, one sided prints, then $9-12 for a T shirt and $25-30 for a hoody is about what you would expect to pay. If you can't hammer anything out, have him show you a receipt and paying his cost may be the best way to go.

Also, for anyone to commit to buying something without knowing how much it's costing, that's not a smart move. Having numbers beforehand is good.


He buys shirts and prints them at his house. We supplied artwork for him, it was a black, white and gray design. I don't know much about shirt printing but I'm pretty sure gray counts as a "color" so it would probably cost more, yes.

And yes, like I said, I had no idea this was happening, I wouldn't have even bothered had I known there was not even an estimate being given to us. I've told my guitar player to let everyone else know when he orders stuff like this.

Quote by asator
Wow....

First, you should never have agreed to let him do it without you knowing what it would cost. If he didn't know how much it would cost, he should have found out and then let you know so you could decide to go ahead or not. To not know numbers, assume it's okay to go ahead and make the shirts, and then give you a price is bad business.

I agree that it is HIS business. He needs to learn how to run it. Bands book bad gigs. Restaurants find they need to overhaul their menus. Stores discover that they'd do a lot better if they moved to another location. All businesses have growing pains and this sounds like his.

I agree to offer him a fair price. Get a quote from someone else as to how much *they* would charge for such an order and of similar quality. Offer him that.

We sold our band shirts for $15. The shirts themselves broke down to something like $8/shirt plus setup and printing per order of 20 shirts came out to a total cost of about $10/shirt based on buying an order of 20.

Now, whereas $8/shirt might sound a bit expensive, when you compare them to the $4/shirt ones, ours were really MUCH better. Ours were Gildan shirts, 100% cotton, 10 oz weight. By comparison, the $4 shirts were a "no-name" brand with poor stitching and poor collars, etc. They were cotton/polyester and were so thin you could practically spit through them... like 4oz weight. They just screamed "cheap!" We were willing to spend twice as much per shirt to get something that we wouldn't be embarrassed to sell, and that people won't pick up, look at, and put down.

CT


Like I said I had no idea what was going on. As for a fair price, I kind of want to teach him a lesson not to do something like this again. I don't know if he has ripped other bands off by doing this, but we aren't stupid (well the guitar player who agreed to buy the shirts might be but I love him anyway ;D)

As for price of shirts thanks for your suggestions. I think $8 is a fair price for shirts, since your talking about quality material. Its not worth it to spend money on shirts that have the logo washing off after going through the washer once.
#18
While I think you made the right move, I have to point out I can't take credit for those much longer, more detailed posts. They were Mephysteaux and axemanchris's doing
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#19
My view is that if you agreed to have him make them without setting the price first, you have an ethical obligation to pay his asking price. If he tried to take the initiative and make them without an agreement in place, then it's his screw-up and he should be left holding the bag. Always be bound by your word, but never by someone else's.
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#20
Quote by punktherock001
I don't know much about shirt printing but I'm pretty sure gray counts as a "color" so it would probably cost more, yes.


only if it was a screen print, if it was digital then the colours don't change anything. i worked in a printing shop, in australian prices you would be looking at around $10 a shirt for those quantities. hoodies would obviously be more. keep in mind though, this was a PROFESSIONAL printing shop, our work included government and big business designs. i have also ordered shirts from a company that regularly makes shirts for international touring bands (the big ones) and i got them for the exact same price. mind you this was screen printing, but where i worked most orders of digital prints were the same price as screen prints.

for screen printing, the inks required for good quality prints are put through big industrial dryers, because they won't dry otherwise. i doubt he has one of them in his house, so it's very unlikely you're getting decent quality from home printing. it's good to support the little guys, but you wouldn't be paying hundreds of dollars more than a professional job for it.

and if he used iron ons, say you'll buy them for the wholesale price of the clothing pre-print.
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#21
Quote by BasementCat
My view is that if you agreed to have him make them without setting the price first, you have an ethical obligation to pay his asking price.


Thank god the law doesn't support this view. What if he asked for $5,000?
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#22
Quote by mcjosh
Quote by asator
He deserves to get stuck with all those shirts, he's trying to rip you off. Don't feel guilty about it, it's his own fault.
This.
This.
#23
He's trying to con you here, that's an insane price.

Ask for a full breakdown of how he arrived at that figure (receipts for materials and so) and if he can't provide a sensible explanation of costs, don't acknowledge him any further.

Though you are a fool for not checking first, when you provide a service you should always give the customer at least an approximate estimate of the cost before starting. If he failed to do that, it's his problem.
#24
What i find hilarious is how many of you are telling him he shouldn't have agreed to pay for the shirts when he has very clearly stated he had no idea the shirts were being done...

I like the full breakdown of costs idea
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#25
Legally, no, owe him nothing.

Always get quotes; stickers, buttons, cds, ect., in writing

Also, I grew up kinda in your area. PM me if you'd like a list of merch vendors my friends and I used to go through. People with website with clearly defined pricing and turn around times.

Keep us posted and good luck!!