#1
You might know the the greek modes. and you might not.

what ways there is to place emphasis on a the bass note for a certian mode ?
(for those who don't know what modes are, just imagine any scale, I want to make a certian note from a scale always present)

in a band, there are many ways. bass playing this note, keyboard playing a related chord.

but how do you keep emphasising it when soloing over a chord progression ?
OR how can you emphasis it when playing a solo with no other instruments ?

I'm really couldn't get that Locrian feeling, that glorious feeling, filled with triumph cause I didn't know how to emphasis the 7th note of the major scale ..

any ideas ?
#2
Quote by obay
You might know the the greek modes. and you might not.

what ways there is to place emphasis on a the bass note for a certian mode ?
(for those who don't know what modes are, just imagine any scale, I want to make a certian note from a scale always present)

in a band, there are many ways. bass playing this note, keyboard playing a related chord.

but how do you keep emphasising it when soloing over a chord progression ?
OR how can you emphasis it when playing a solo with no other instruments ?

I'm really couldn't get that Locrian feeling, that glorious feeling, filled with triumph cause I didn't know how to emphasis the 7th note of the major scale ..

any ideas ?


You can't, the modal sound comes from what you are playing over the backing chords. Also locrian is the most difficult mode to play in and some say no one has ever written a truly locrian piece so I don't think you are thinking of the correct mode.

Edit: Most difficult to write music that sounds decent in I mean.
#3
try playing that note more than the rest make it what you resolve to also helps to start on the note
thats really all the advice i can give im sure someone else here can help you better
#4
Quote by stephen_rettie
You can't, the modal sound comes from what you are playing over the backing chords. Also locrian is the most difficult mode to play in and some say no one has ever written a truly locrian piece so I don't think you are thinking of the correct mode.

Edit: Most difficult to write music that sounds decent in I mean.


/thread
#5
Quote by stephen_rettie
You can't, the modal sound comes from what you are playing over the backing chords. Also locrian is the most difficult mode to play in and some say no one has ever written a truly locrian piece so I don't think you are thinking of the correct mode.


you certainly can play modally without backing. in my opinion, though, it's more difficult to play modally without a backing because you have to not only supply the melody, but you must imply the harmony. if your ears are inexperienced or you don't really know what you're doing, it's extremely easy to slip and land in a tonality.

and TS, playing the locrian mode isn't "emphasizing the 7th note of the major scale". it's about using the 7th note of the relative major scale as your resolution. to emphasize a note and to resolve to it are completely different things.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#6
Quote by AeolianWolf
you certainly can play modally without backing. in my opinion, though, it's more difficult to play modally without a backing because you have to not only supply the melody, but you must imply the harmony. if your ears are inexperienced or you don't really know what you're doing, it's extremely easy to slip and land in a tonality.

and TS, playing the locrian mode isn't "emphasizing the 7th note of the major scale". it's about using the 7th note of the relative major scale as your resolution. to emphasize a note and to resolve to it are completely different things.


My whole understanding of modes just went out the window. I thought that it was what was under the lead that made something modal.
#7
Quote by aCloudConnected
My whole understanding of modes just went out the window. I thought that it was what was under the lead that made something modal.


I am probably going to get corrected again but I think the key is the actual notes. The harmonies are constructed using notes from the mode and extensions are often added to include the specific "color tones", and therefore playing something modal over a modal progression or riff will make it sound appropriately modal more easily. However that doesn't mean that the notes aren't what makes it sound like it is. For example emphasizing the sharp 4 while playing in Lydian can bring forth the Lydian sound, however the chord progressions are usually used to lay the "modal foundation" so to speak. I am pretty sure that's correct.
#8
As AeolianWolf said, modes are more than just emphasizing a note in the major scale. In fact, once you got the backing sorted out to make the piece modal, you have to place special emphasis to the "color note" of the mode, the note that makes it different than it's parallel major/minor scale, such as the #4 in Lydian or the b7 in Mixolydian.

Quote by obay

I'm really couldn't get that Locrian feeling, that glorious feeling, filled with triumph cause I didn't know how to emphasis the 7th note of the major scale ..

any ideas ?


Okay, I know music is subjective, but...

What the hell?
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#9
Quote by obay

but how do you keep emphasising it when soloing over a chord progression ?

....

I'm really couldn't get that Locrian feeling, that glorious feeling, filled with triumph


Finally, someone has written a triumphant locrian piece. Awesome if you could tell us the chord progression that gives us that one :P
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#10
Quote by aCloudConnected
My whole understanding of modes just went out the window. I thought that it was what was under the lead that made something modal.

You know how you can play Major or Minor keys without a backing track and have it sound Major or Minor by emphasizing the M/m3, nat/b6, and the nat/b7?

Same thing with modes. You just have to emphasize the color tones more often than you would in Major or Minor because they're not as harmonically (implied or not) stable as the Major/Minor scales and will want to move back to one of those if you're not careful.
#11
Quote by AlanHB
Finally, someone has written a triumphant locrian piece. Awesome if you could tell us the chord progression that gives us that one :P


I've seen Frank Gambale's Mode no Mystery. and in the end he plays a song formed on three modes and the intro was Locrian and the feeling was obvious.
but he had a backing track.

so if you allow me to ask here.
What are those "color" notes for each of the modes. can anyone list them here??
many thanks
#12
Quote by DiminishedFifth
You know how you can play Major or Minor keys without a backing track and have it sound Major or Minor by emphasizing the M/m3, nat/b6, and the nat/b7?

Same thing with modes. You just have to emphasize the color tones more often than you would in Major or Minor because they're not as harmonically (implied or not) stable as the Major/Minor scales and will want to move back to one of those if you're not careful.


That makes sense. I guess I've just never really thought that major and minor are essentially modes too.
#13
Quote by obay
I've seen Frank Gambale's Mode no Mystery. and in the end he plays a song formed on three modes and the intro was Locrian and the feeling was obvious.
but he had a backing track.

Link? You have me skeptical ;]

so if you allow me to ask here.
What are those "color" notes for each of the modes. can anyone list them here??
many thanks

The "color notes" of a mode/scale are the notes that differentiate it from other scales/modes. For example, the color notes of the Minor Scale are the m3 and m7 and m6. No other scale/mode has all of these notes in them (assuming everything else is naturaled).

You can figure out the color notes of the other scales/modes now.
Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Jul 8, 2010,
#14
Quote by obay
I've seen Frank Gambale's Mode no Mystery. and in the end he plays a song formed on three modes and the intro was Locrian and the feeling was obvious.
but he had a backing track.



Yes, the intro was Locrian, but it then when on to something else, then something else again and then resolved.

So although the song had a distinct Locrian tonality or sound for a while, it didn't resolve there.

Edit: YYZ by Rush has an intro that can be said to be Locrian, but it doesn't make the song Locrian...does it? No.
Last edited by MapOfYourHead at Jul 8, 2010,
#16
Quote by Sean0913
its a min7b5


Haha, it does beg the question whether a single chord could be defined as a "progression" considering it, you know, doesn't progress.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#17
Quote by obay
so if you allow me to ask here.
What are those "color" notes for each of the modes. can anyone list them here??
many thanks

Well, to get the mode from the parent scale you'd alter them as such:

(Alterations to the major scale)

Lydian - #4
Mixolydian - b7

Dorian - Natural minor with a #6
Aeolian - Natural minor
Phrygian - Natural minor with a b2

Locrian - Natural minor with b2 and b5

And those are the color tones that are unique to each mode.

That's one way to get them. If I have to on the fly, I'll alter the scale like that until I work out what key signature it shares the notes with and then improvise using those (keeping the resolution at the proper place of course).
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Who's going to stop you? The music police?
Last edited by FacetOfChaos at Jul 9, 2010,
#18
Quote by Obay
so if you allow me to ask here.
What are those "color" notes for each of the modes. can anyone list them here??
many thanks


Diminished Fifth answered this pretty well, they are the notes in each mode that the other modes don't have.

Here are all the intervals for each of the modes:


Ionian:           1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
Dorian:           1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - b7
Phrygian:         1 - b2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7
Lydian:           1 - 2 - 3 - #4 - 5 - 6 - 7 
Mixolydian:       1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - b7
Aeolian:          1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7
Locrian:          1 - b2 - b3 - 4 - b5 - b6 - b7


Notice how each mode has different sharps and flats that make it modal, the color notes are all the sharps and flats that make it different from the Ionian, or Major Scale. You need to emphasize these notes to get each modes "color".

Also, you need to make sure you're resolving on the root note, not necessarily emphasising it, although you can. You know you're resolving on the right note when it only sound finnished ending on that note, and if you don't it sounds unstable.

Hope that helped
Quote by leg end

"Roses are red,
Violets are bitchin'
Goddammit woman,
get back in the kitchen"
#19
it did help, thanks for everyone.
I can see it clearly better now.
thanks
#20
Quote by AeolianWolf
you certainly can play modally without backing.
Exactly.

In fact modal music was based off of solely a single melodic line far before harmony was even considered.

Now, it's going to be very difficult to imply locrian without a vamp or pedal tone, but in most cases the melody can very easily determine modality.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea