#1
This is getting frustrating.


I've tried to set up three bands with success in none of them. The problem isn't anything to do with the music but the band members themselves.

I tried to weed out the flaky people right before I even tried to play anything with anyone. I explain to anyone I audition that I hate lateness (unless it's for a good reason) and I hate people who waste time. I also refused anyone who took drugs (although I turned a blind eye to weed) and anyone without a certain amount of knowledge.

But it seems that either way, my bands have fallen apart. My first band had a great guitarist who, for some reason, decided to join the RAF without telling anyone. Three months later he tells me he's quitting to go on basic training. Leaving me learning the drums with no band to play in.

My bands have been rock/indie covers bands, so it's not been anything weird.

Anyone got any idea what I might be doing wrong?
#2
like you said its not you its the band members. Maybe try getting older people with more experience that are dedicated.
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#3
dude i have exactly the same problem. this is what i do, keep the people who ARE reliable and just keeping filling in what you need until 100% of your members are reliable. its just trial and error
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#4
You probably don't wanna hear this, but it seems like your making this all about you... just saying. First off, what are you auditioning people for.. why cant you just jam with people?
#5
I hear ya man. Same thing here. So goddamn annoying.

I'm at the point where I feel like I should just give up. I wish people like us could just meet up and start a band lol
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#6
Quote by longneckdude
like you said its not you its the band members. Maybe try getting older people with more experience that are dedicated.



For what I want to play, it's increasingly likely that this will happen.

@pepsi1187: I'm sick of jamming. I want to gig, I want to make money, I want to play with some people who actually have the dedication and the talent to play gig material, not just bedroom players.

I played in a band like this, where most of the members were just that- bedroom players. They were playing in this band just for the hell of it. I on the other hand was playing because I genuinely believed it was a good chance at performance and I treated these tiny little recitals (it was a worship band) as though I was rehearsing with the members of Rush.

It was without doubt the single WORST band I'd been in. No organisation, no real talent, no real style or togetherness.
#7
Quote by pepsi1187
You probably don't wanna hear this, but it seems like your making this all about you... just saying. First off, what are you auditioning people for.. why cant you just jam with people?


Yeah I thought this, I wouldn't hold a formal audition unless you've got a full band together yourself, just jam with people and use that as sort of an unofficial audition, even though you want to take it seriously you have to start somewhere.

Besides this, the rest of your stuff is the kind of common sense stuff you have the right to expect, I would say you should just keep trying to find people, and be willing to play any of the many instruments I know you play, it'll give you more opportunities, I wouldn't have gotten into any of my bands if I'd insisted on playing guitar, but because I play drums, and drummers are much rarer, I've had many more chances to play in bands and enjoyed them.
Last edited by SilentHeaven109 at Jul 10, 2010,
#8
Quote by SilentHeaven109
Yeah I thought this, I wouldn't hold a formal audition unless you've got a full band together yourself, just jam with people and use that as sort of an unofficial audition, even though you want to take it seriously you have to start somewhere.

Besides this, the rest of your stuff is the kind of common sense stuff you have the right to expect, I would say you should just keep trying to find people, and be willing to play any of the many instruments I know you play, it'll give you more opportunities, I wouldn't have gotten into any of my bands if I'd insisted on playing guitar, but because I play drums, and drummers are much rarer, I've had many more chances to play in bands and enjoyed them.



Like I said, I'm sick of jamming. Most of the people I know who would want to jam wouldn't want to be in a gigging band and certainly not for what I want to play.

On the note about auditions: I'm only really auditioning people for my new band because I'm a drummer/bandleader and I need to find people who can work in a band that works like that. This means no egotistic singers/guitarists and a bassist I'm happy to accompany on drums. I need people who, unlike many bands, actually listen to and respect drummers.
#9
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Anyone got any idea what I might be doing wrong?


It may be something to do with this.

Quote by Fassa Albrecht
I also refused anyone who took drugs


Seriously though, just try older people - and people with more previous experience.
Last one on drugs is a queer.
#10
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
I'm sick of jamming. I want to gig, I want to make money, I want to play with some people who actually have the dedication and the talent to play gig material, not just bedroom players.



Okay, so in other words your making it about yourself. What you need to do is appeal to other people's interests, not just your own.

Think of a band like a sports team. Players aren't gonna join your team unless you offer them a good contract. You want people to join YOUR band but what's in it for them?
#11
Quote by SRisley
It may be something to do with this.


I have nothing against drugs or people taking them, but I just want them to remain out of what is essentially MY band. Less drama.

I take Rush as examples of what a band should be like, and this means (among other things) no drugs.


Seriously though, just try older people - and people with more previous experience.


Most of the guys who are older and play what I want are outta my league big-time.
#12
Quote by pepsi1187
Okay, so in other words your making it about yourself. What you need to do is appeal to other people's interests, not just your own.

Think of a band like a sports team. Players aren't gonna join your team unless you offer them a good contract. You want people to join YOUR band but what's in it for them?



I'm a member of the band just like anyone else. I might be the bandleader but that doesn't mean I'm on some sort of pedastal or segregated from the rest of the band. I'm equal to anyone else I play with.

Otherwise, what are you getting at? I'm trying to find members for a band who can and want to play Level 42 covers at paid gigs.
#13
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Like I said, I'm sick of jamming. Most of the people I know who would want to jam wouldn't want to be in a gigging band and certainly not for what I want to play.

On the note about auditions: I'm only really auditioning people for my new band because I'm a drummer/bandleader and I need to find people who can work in a band that works like that. This means no egotistic singers/guitarists and a bassist I'm happy to accompany on drums. I need people who, unlike many bands, actually listen to and respect drummers.


I don't mean jam as in "play 20 minute improvisations," I mean just play some covers and try and write something with potential bandmates, rather than some kind of incredibly formal audition where you sit in front of them and judge them.

This, along with the fact that you've named yourself bandleader of a band that doesn't exist yet could be your problem. Most people, including me, would not like the fact that if they join your band, they're instantly below you in terms of importance.
I always follow the GazettE's example with this, after they had gotten all their members and had played together they chose the bandleader.

It seems like you have a very concrete idea of what you want your band to be, which will definitely put people off, you have to be open minded and willing to accommodate other people if you want to succeed in a band, be willing to play more styles and more different instruments, just generally be open to more things.
To be honest, if you're trying to start a prog rock band, led by you with you on drums, with a humble singer and guitarist and your bass playing soulmate where none of them take drugs and all of them get along perfectly with you and all love drummers and are all huge Rush fans, then it's going to be a long wait for you. I'm not saying you won't get that, but you'll have to play with lots of different people before you can get to that.
#14
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
I'm a member of the band just like anyone else. I might be the bandleader but that doesn't mean I'm on some sort of pedastal or segregated from the rest of the band. I'm equal to anyone else I play with.

Otherwise, what are you getting at? I'm trying to find members for a band who can and want to play Level 42 covers at paid gigs.


My point is you sound selfish. Say you asked me to join your band. I would say no just because you haven't given me any type of incentive to join.

Quote by Fassa Albrecht
I have nothing against drugs or people taking them, but I just want them to remain out of what is essentially MY band. Less drama.


First of two things.. Stop thinking that its YOUR band. Unless you're paying the people you play with, nobody will join a band where they have no say in things.

Second.. you're gonna have to get used to drama. Being in a band is essentially a relationship and your mates are your partners. Your gonna have disagreements and fights, but whats important is how you can get past all of that petty bull shit.

How can you expect anyone to take you seriously if you can't take yourself seriously. How far are you willing to go for something you love. Just last night, me and my band mates played at a biker bar.. and our vocalist is black. Our second song in our set, some older dudes went onstage and straight up pulled the microphones out of the box and told us to get the **** out. Now these guys must have thought they were about to run us out of the place, but we ended up damn near fighting these guys... these were leaders of a biker gang. I risked my life for something I love. We could have walked out without saying a word, but we didn't. We stood up for ourselves. People were ADMIRING us for what happened. These old bastards backed off like ****ing dogs.

My point of the story is drama comes with the territory. What's matters is how you handle yourselves when times get tough. Don't be a flake, cause at the end of the day, itll be all worth it.
Last edited by pepsi1187 at Jul 10, 2010,
#15
At first, I thought pepsi was coming off as a 13-year-old who has never been in a band before, but I see where he's going with this. (aside from going to a biker bar and getting into a fight, which just seems ridiculous to me... but wtvr....)

Okay, you know what you want. That's good. You need to get off the "my" band train, though. When I see that, I start packing my gear and heading home. It's not your band. It's not my band. It's OUR band.

Auditioning players is fine, but you have to go about it in a way that works for everyone. I think pepsi's point about kinda getting to know one or two people first and deciding that you want to go forward together - starting the core of the band first - is pretty useful. But you don't *have* to do it that way.

That all said... in my 25 years of playing in bands, pretty much the first thing that came into my mind as I read your post was "welcome to the club."

Rock musicians are a notoriously difficult group to work with - punctuality issues, reliability issues, commitment issues, substance abuse issues, ego issues all abound. It's as true now as it was when I started doing this in '85. Now, it isn't fair to paint them all with the same brush, and I have had the pleasure of playing with many exceptions, but man... SO many of them fit at least one of those descriptors. The trick is trying to find some way of sorting those out. When you find the answer to that, please let ME know.

Jamming with older musicians does help. Most of the losers have taken themselves out of the pool by attrition. Eventually they pack up their gear and go home for the last time, which usually happens around the time they either get a full-time job or get married. Good riddance. Nobody wanted you in the first place.

Some of them just refuse to die though. Even in my current project, auditioning guitarists, we had one guy who got lost twice in a row, being 10 minutes late the first time and 45 minutes the second time.... and he had a GPS!! And the second time.... he had friggin' been there before! WTF? Another guy showed up, hadn't learned a single song on the list and just showed up and soloed over all the songs. It's a Green Day tribute, for Christ's sake! And then said, "you guys all seem like good musicians, why are you wasting your time playing Green Day?" WTF?! (that one somehow got through.... another guy in the band brought him out. I screen people pretty well over the phone.)

A couple of things, though, that are HUGE generalizations....

People who have formal training tend to be more reliable and more committed to their instruments.

People who hold down half-way decent full time jobs tend to show up to practice too. If you are reliable enough to complete training for a decent job, and are reliable enough to show up for work reliably.... people tend to transfer that ability to bands.

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#16
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
I might be the bandleader but that doesn't mean I'm on some sort of pedastal or segregated from the rest of the band. I'm equal to anyone else I play with.

Quote by Fassa Albrecht
I have nothing against drugs or people taking them, but I just want them to remain out of what is essentially MY band. Less drama.

...Right.

Quote by Fassa Albrecht
I take Rush as examples of what a band should be like, and this means (among other things) no drugs.

Sometimes I really, really don't like you.
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#17
I really don't see you finding any members because your expectations are too rigid. First of all I don't think you're really going to find many people who are chomping at the bit to play in a level 42 cover band. Second, don't think of it as your band, Larry Mullen JR, initially thought U2 would be called the Larry Mullen Group, you have to open to wherever these members end up taking you.

Also you're the drummer, are you a singer or songwriter? Honestly I'm not going to let some drummer boss me around and express creative direction if they don't even have any material to contribute.

As for the drugs, obviously I'd rather not be around drugs, but if someone can play well, create good stuff, and keep their usage in check enough that its not a problem, then that's good enough for me and I'll hope they can straighten themselves out.
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#18
i agree with the above people, find older people...that's what i've had too do, i'm 16 and im making a band with people much older than me who've had the same problem in the past
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#19
I've had the same problem. My advice is keep recruiting people OR look for a band to join. Go to some friends who have or are looking to start bands. I had some friends over a couple of weeks back, they were in the middle of a videogame and we were all chilling, and I figured it was as good as time as ever to tune my guitar. As soon as I come back down the stairs with my guitar my firends eyes almost popped out. he immediatly asked me if i was intereste in joining a band (Turns out thier drummer, lead AND rythm had quit) and it's taken off from there.

Plussince your a drummer you should have a neasier time. Finding a drummer, especially a good one, is like finding a needle in a haystack. Not a lot of drum kit owners andp layers out there compared to vocals, basists and guitar.
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#20
I've had multiple bands and eventually,they broke off.Now it's me and my drummer buddy and I write rythm and lead guitars,bass and vocals myself,find a bassist and a guitarist to fill in for a gig.The only member I would consider is finding a better vocalist but having thins run by the two of us is just..great,you know,the feeling of something being complete and shit.
#21
I've been trying to form a band for the past year, and I've really had trouble finding a bassist. the first one was either out of town, grounded, or having sex every weekend, and the second took his bass apart without any idea of how to put it back together. I might've found a bassist who'll show up for practice, but that is yet to be seen. So trial and error is a big part of it.

When I asked the rythem guitarist to join, he immediately asked what time practices were. It's a good idea to have a set idea of things like that.

I've been pretty limited in who I can ask by the genre of the band I'm trying to make (melodic death metal), but I've managed to find people. We've had three bassists, two rythem guitarists, and no practices.

I've talked to some other people, and they've had pretty much the same problem: people aren't dedicated.

Basically, all you can do is try different people until you find people who will work for you.
#22
Quote by Phoenix Reborn
I've had the same problem. My advice is keep recruiting people OR look for a band to join.


You want to know how long I lasted when I joined an existing band as a bassist? I'll tell you- 6 hours. I got kicked out after two practices for some rubbish reason, and I have the feeling that the reason they gave wasn't the real reason for my sacking.


Go to some friends who have or are looking to start bands. I had some friends over a couple of weeks back, they were in the middle of a videogame and we were all chilling, and I figured it was as good as time as ever to tune my guitar. As soon as I come back down the stairs with my guitar my firends eyes almost popped out. he immediatly asked me if i was intereste in joining a band (Turns out thier drummer, lead AND rythm had quit) and it's taken off from there.


Most of my friends aren't musicians and the handful that are are either just starting out or plain crap.


Plussince your a drummer you should have a neasier time. Finding a drummer, especially a good one, is like finding a needle in a haystack. Not a lot of drum kit owners andp layers out there compared to vocals, basists and guitar.


True, true...


@slaptasticdave: I'm not being too rigid at all. The Level 42 thing is really a best-case scenario thing- it's what I'd ideally like to do, but probably isn't going to be the case. Even if I could just find some guys willing to play some jazz-funk, anything LIKE L42, then I would be happy to settle to that.

I want people to know exactly what I'm looking for and what I can and want to do as a bassist/drummer/keyboardist/violinist etc. My first band broke up because we weren't getting gigs due to our patchy and vague set-lists.
#23
A lot of people don't realize how hard it is to be in a band.
The idea sounds awesome to everyone , but once things get real , they find it's not for them and start to flake out. That's been my experience anyway.
Everyone wants to be a "rock star" and play shows and have fun...but the stuff that isn't fun... hours and hours and hours of practice on nights you want to do other things , promoting and hours on myspace , money you have to spend on the band , and seeing the same 4-5 dudes everyday can wear down a lot of people.
It can be a grind and you have to find someone with the same drive that you have... not always easy no matter how good they are at what they play or how cool they are away from music.
#24
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
You want to know how long I lasted when I joined an existing band as a bassist? I'll tell you- 6 hours. I got kicked out after two practices for some rubbish reason, and I have the feeling that the reason they gave wasn't the real reason for my sacking.

@slaptasticdave: I'm not being too rigid at all. The Level 42 thing is really a best-case scenario thing- it's what I'd ideally like to do, but probably isn't going to be the case. Even if I could just find some guys willing to play some jazz-funk, anything LIKE L42, then I would be happy to settle to that.

I want people to know exactly what I'm looking for and what I can and want to do as a bassist/drummer/keyboardist/violinist etc.


1st bit: That's to be expected in most cases, you'll have to go through LOTS of bands before you find one that actually works out.

2nd bit: You are being too rigid. If you're having trouble finding people that are willing to play that style, then you're probably going to have to be more flexible. My ideal band would be a JRock influenced rock/metal band, but since not that many people around here would want to play that style I've had to be willing to play more styles, I've played in everything from pop-punk bands to thrash bands, and trust me, playing in a band that isn't your preferred style is much better than not playing a band at all.

3rd bit: It's all well and good showing off your ability, but the first part of that sentence will put people off immensely, especially if you're joining an existing band, you have to be willing to accommodate other peoples tastes! Don't you think we would all like to have our bands play exactly the style of music that we want? Of course we would but it obviously can't work that way, and if you're not willing to be flexible then I'm really not surprised you haven't been able to find a band, that's what you're doing wrong.

Be more flexible, trust me, I promise you'll have much more luck. Next time you're talking to some about joining the band, ask about their influences and what kind of band they are at the moment and try to adapt to that, rather than telling them about your influences and trying to make them into the kind of band you want to be, I promise you you'll have much more success.
#25
I totally disagree with being in a band that doesn't play what you like. I can understand if he had ridiculously specific tastes, but why be in a band that produces music that you don't like and can't be proud of? There should atleast be some sort of compromise to make something great, if they can't do that then why not leave? You all have no chemistry at that point. . And from their prospective they probably think you're just messing up their vibe and not contributing shit. Just a vacant shell playing an instrument. Who wants to be that?

Keep in mind, I've never been in a band myself ( which probably discredits my opinion ) but how could you put time and effort into playing music that you don't even like? **** that. At least try to find someone who would think your tastes could add to the band, not completely piss them away. That isn't even an ideal situation. And from the perspective of the band, they shouldn't have to play your style if they don't want to either, but again, I'm thinking in ideals where people could like a compromise.

For example, Stephen Carpenter of deftones likes really heavy metal like Meshuggah, Chino Moreno always liked sture like the Cure, Duran Duran and Depesche Mode and was never introduced to heavy music before joining the band. Thus: the deftones' sound. Carpenter still complains that the band isn't as heavy as he would like it to be, lol, but man I love it that way.
Last edited by Toniofalcon at Jul 14, 2010,
#26
How are you finding members?

In my experience, when audition people "cold" - ie, complete strangers who you get in touch with from ads on websites and in music shops - you have to go through an enormous amount of no-hopers and timewasters. As many as half of them won't even end up showing up to the audition. Of the ones that do, often you'll end up wishing they didn't. It can take months and months to find the right person, and along the way you'll find go through a lot of people who you think will work out, but for some reason it doesn't.

From talking to other musicians who have got a band together, they've gone through the same thing.

Take heart from the fact that it's not just you. Also, once you start to get out there and gig, and network with other gigging musicians, when the time comes to find new members it gets to be a lot easier because you'll be able to audition/jam with people who aren't complete strangers.
#27
Quote by Toniofalcon
I totally disagree with being in a band that doesn't play what you like. I can understand if he had ridiculously specific tastes, but why be in a band that produces music that you don't like and can't be proud of? There should atleast be some sort of compromise to make something great, if they can't do that then why not leave? You all have no chemistry at that point. . And from their prospective they probably think you're just messing up their vibe and not contributing shit. Just a vacant shell playing an instrument. Who wants to be that?

Keep in mind, I've never been in a band myself ( which probably discredits my opinion ) but how could you put time and effort into playing music that you don't even like? **** that. At least try to find someone who would think your tastes could add to the band, not completely piss them away. That isn't even an ideal situation. And from the perspective of the band, they shouldn't have to play your style if they don't want to either, but again, I'm thinking in ideals where people could like a compromise.

For example, Stephen Carpenter of deftones likes really heavy metal like Meshuggah, Chino Moreno always liked sture like the Cure, Duran Duran and Depesche Mode and was never introduced to heavy music before joining the band. Thus: the deftones' sound. Carpenter still complains that the band isn't as heavy as he would like it to be, lol, but man I love it that way.


1st bit: There definitely should, but in this case Fassa doesn't seem to be able to compromise any further than "jazz/funk," when in reality she'll probably have to compromise a lot more than that, and I know from the Forced Listening thread for example that she has wide tastes, which gives her a lot more options if she's willing to play one of these many other styles rather than just one.
Obviously your "vacant shell" point is correct, but if that was actually the case, the member in question would just leave or be thrown out.

2nd bit: What you're saying does make sense in writing, but you'll find that once you start playing in bands that sometimes you will have to play something you're not keen on, in my view playing a style that isn't your favourite is still much more fun than not playing at all.

3rd bit: Again, it's a good idea on paper, but a few things to keep in mind.
Mixing any two styles doesn't always work, like my old drummer suggested we mix heavy metal, which I like, and indie, which he likes. I then proceeded to make a "heavy metal indie" song, cleverly titled "Heavy Metal Indie." I can send it to you if you want but I can promise it's not pretty
Also, Deftones are professional musicians, therefore they can make the mixture of styles work because they know what they're doing, amateurs attempting to mix styles usually ends up sounding like a bit of a mess.

Of course it's important to play something you enjoy, but it'll never be exactly what you want it to be, or very rarely anyway.
#28
Quote by Toniofalcon
I totally disagree with being in a band that doesn't play what you like. I can understand if he had ridiculously specific tastes, but why be in a band that produces music that you don't like and can't be proud of? There should atleast be some sort of compromise to make something great, if they can't do that then why not leave? You all have no chemistry at that point. . And from their prospective they probably think you're just messing up their vibe and not contributing shit. Just a vacant shell playing an instrument. Who wants to be that?

Yeah, your opinion is irrelevant. I've been triyng to from a band for about a year now, and I like death/heavy metal, but I'm willing to play anything from Queen to Carnifax, simply for the sheer joy of being in a band.
#29
You probably at least still like those songs. By the way, I'm not saying everyone should have Mustaine-like control over a band, I'm saying why play when it's not something you like?
#30
Quote by Toniofalcon
You probably at least still like those songs. By the way, I'm not saying everyone should have Mustaine-like control over a band, I'm saying why play when it's not something you like?



some people are grateful just to be IN a band.. does it not make sense to just play for the sake of playing.

and for the sake of growing as a musician and working as a unit with your band if you ever decide to join one... you gotta get used to doing things you might not want to do. People won't like working with you if you make it about you.. Don't ever be a diva.

You might hate dance music.. but I'll tell anybody this, and you can thank me later... if you ever get a chance to perform, play some dance songs. I mean.. even if your into hardcore heavy metal.. you can still incorporate some kind of dance rhythm somewhere. You might not like the idea, but dance music is an instant win at shows.

I feel you though, it's totally normal to be skeptic about things, but that doesn't mean you cant like an idea afterwards.. you know?
#31
I get what you're saying and I still disagree. Music is a creative outlet for me, and I can't contribute creatively to a band I don't want in. That's just how I see it. Some people can come in and sit in and play songs that they don't like, just to play, but for me it has to be some sort of creative thing. Maybe you're right? It sounds incredibly discouraging, as you're talking to me as if it's impossible to find a band to play anything close to what I like so I might as well join one that I have no interest in. Yeah, that's an exaggeration of what you said, but isn't it possible to find members that have some chemistry? I mean, shit. I'm not being a diva, I don't think my ideas are the best in the world or anything. But I'd like to be with some band members with which I can at least create something I like, I'd prefer everyone add their own thing to it, but if it isn't something I like then why be in a band? Am I a ****ing idiot for saying this? Also, if I have no creative input in a band, who's the asshole(s) that does? Do these rules apply to him, too?

I think some musicians are better suited for that, some aren't. Some prefer to be in the background and even enjoy it because of the lack of pressure, some embrace that pressure just for the creative outlet. I just couldn't be a session musician, where I feel is the kind of direction you're going to with this. That's a respectable, reasonable job, but I couldn't do it.


Also, I completely disagree with the sentiment in the " dance song " statement too. I don't like extreme heavy metal and I prefer more rhythmic stuff ( deftones, Korn, nirvana ), but I believe you take the fun out of music when it becomes this calculated thing. " Lets make a dance song they'll like it", I'm not making music for the people to hate it, but it's just, what the ****? I know it sounds amateurish to keep references other bands but for a while Weezer played their exact same record in clubs but people turned their noses up at it because it wasn't grunge. Soon enough many of those songs became hits. Could a band at least take a chance?
#32
Truly, when you've been trying to form a band for almost a year and people just aren't putting in any effort, you get a little less selective.

I get what you're saying about wanting to like what you're playing. The goal, then, is to like many kinds of music, and appreciate the talent that goes into each piece.

If your band writes original songs, you can have everyone contribute. That's my goal with a band - write original songs, get money, not just be a cover band.
#33
Quote by Toniofalcon
I get what you're saying and I still disagree. Music is a creative outlet for me, and I can't contribute creatively to a band I don't want in. That's just how I see it. Some people can come in and sit in and play songs that they don't like, just to play, but for me it has to be some sort of creative thing. Maybe you're right? It sounds incredibly discouraging, as you're talking to me as if it's impossible to find a band to play anything close to what I like so I might as well join one that I have no interest in. Yeah, that's an exaggeration of what you said, but isn't it possible to find members that have some chemistry? I mean, shit. I'm not being a diva, I don't think my ideas are the best in the world or anything. But I'd like to be with some band members with which I can at least create something I like, I'd prefer everyone add their own thing to it, but if it isn't something I like then why be in a band? Am I a ****ing idiot for saying this? Also, if I have no creative input in a band, who's the asshole(s) that does? Do these rules apply to him, too?

I think some musicians are better suited for that, some aren't. Some prefer to be in the background and even enjoy it because of the lack of pressure, some embrace that pressure just for the creative outlet. I just couldn't be a session musician, where I feel is the kind of direction you're going to with this. That's a respectable, reasonable job, but I couldn't do it.


Also, I completely disagree with the sentiment in the " dance song " statement too. I don't like extreme heavy metal and I prefer more rhythmic stuff ( deftones, Korn, nirvana ), but I believe you take the fun out of music when it becomes this calculated thing. " Lets make a dance song they'll like it", I'm not making music for the people to hate it, but it's just, what the ****? I know it sounds amateurish to keep references other bands but for a while Weezer played their exact same record in clubs but people turned their noses up at it because it wasn't grunge. Soon enough many of those songs became hits. Could a band at least take a chance?


I know it seems a bit dickheadish to pick apart everything you've said but I like discussing this stuff and I'm bored

1st bit: This is obviously a good point, you have to like the music you're playing, if you're writing music you have to enjoy the style you're making, even if it's just to write quality music in that style. For example, I've been asked to join a post-hardcore band, I enjoy their music but I'm not a fan of the style in general and therefore wouldn't be able to write music in that style, whereas it's all they listen to and have produced fantastic music.
I would never suggest joining a band whose style you hate, this is why having wide tastes makes it much easier to find a band.

2nd bit: It's not impossible to find members you get along, some bands get lucky, Nightmare have had the same lineup since they started with the exception of one drummer, but in most cases you'll have to go through lots of people you don't get along with before you find someone you do.
Also, in a lot of cases, people appreciate the experience of playing in a band and improving their skills a lot more than they care about playing the exact style of music they like, and of course it will be necessary to compromise on style if you like obscure musical styles.

3rd bit: For the thrill and fun of being in a band. Just look at Take That in the 90's. Only one member of the band wrote the songs and sang lead vocals, but the other members enjoyed the experience so it wasn't a big deal. This is also an example of how, sometimes, it's actually best for one person to have creative control, as sometimes one member is just better than the rest of the band, and I'd happily admit that if it was the case in my band.
You're not an idiot, you have some good points, just a tiny bit naive on some points

4th bit: There's nothing wrong with being a session musician, but that's a distinctly different career path to playing in a band, which is obviously what you'd like to do. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have creative input, I would simply suggest continually improving your skills for this, there's not much worse in a band than a member wanting to contribute but just being musically unable to write anything good

5th bit: Although I personally would love to be in a massively famous band, I'd want to do it with music I like myself, and I wouldn't just write music that I didn't like just to become popular, as cheesy as it sounds you should write music for yourself, if others like it, that's a bonus

But yeah, I agree with above, after you've spent ages trawling through Join My Band and listening to awful samples of singers who think they're amazing, and turning up to rehearsals where no-one has learnt the songs and the people are just generally useless, you'll get a lot less selective about style
Last edited by SilentHeaven109 at Jul 19, 2010,
#34
I know that finding bandmembers is a really difficult task, but it's kind of a snowball effect, once you meet that great bass player, that bass player will know a guitar player, that guitar player might know a good drummer and singer etc. Once you kind of get in the scene a lot of possibilities open up, and the more people you get to know the more even show up. It's just hard to get "into" the scene and it might take a long time, but I suggest for now, just letting go for most of your demands for the time being, and just playing in whatever bands you can and from there you'll progress. Eventually once you know some people you might start a band of your own doing what you like.

Good luck!


Also:
Quote by SilentHeaven109

3rd bit: Again, it's a good idea on paper, but a few things to keep in mind.
Mixing any two styles doesn't always work, like my old drummer suggested we mix heavy metal, which I like, and indie, which he likes. I then proceeded to make a "heavy metal indie" song, cleverly titled "Heavy Metal Indie." I can send it to you if you want but I can promise it's not pretty
Also, Deftones are professional musicians, therefore they can make the mixture of styles work because they know what they're doing, amateurs attempting to mix styles usually ends up sounding like a bit of a mess.

Of course it's important to play something you enjoy, but it'll never be exactly what you want it to be, or very rarely anyway.

I think in music you should never look at things that way. You should never think of bands being better just because they are "professional", these bands started out just like everyone other band did, and they are still just a bunch of guys together making music, just as we all can. Perhaps they worked harder or had more luck, but if you work as hard you can reach everything they have reached.
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Last edited by pinguinpanic at Jul 22, 2010,
#35
Quote by pinguinpanic
I think in music you should never look at things that way. You should never think of bands being better just because they are "professional", these bands started out just like everyone other band did, and they are still just a bunch of guys together making music, just as we all can. Perhaps they worked harder or had more luck, but if you work as hard you can reach everything they have reached.


Firstly, the bit above the part you quoted ties into this, and what you quoted doesn't seem so wrong when you include that. Of course I'm saying that successful or famous will not always equal good, I was talking about bands being good at mixing styles, not just being good in general, and in this case they are skilled musicians who can make their mixture of styles work, whereas most bands, especially young band who are just starting out, who try to fuse 2 random arbitrary styles will not sound good.

Please don't just quote something out of context and twist the meaning, I agree with what you've written but you completely missed my point
#36
Quote by pinguinpanic

I think in music you should never look at things that way. You should never think of bands being better just because they are "professional", these bands started out just like everyone other band did, and they are still just a bunch of guys together making music, just as we all can. Perhaps they worked harder or had more luck, but if you work as hard you can reach everything they have reached.

They're a bunch of guys who are a lot better at making music and a lot more creative than most bands. Most bands suck, honestly. By most bands I'm not meaning just signed ones, I mean unsigned, independent, etc. Those of the majority of bands. There's a lot of luck involved, but many bands just suck or are uncreative and would never be successful on that alone. Be honest. Indie =/= good...to a certain extent there's a reason why the people on top are on top. They're as successful as they are because they beat out the zillions of other bands who tried to have there spot, even though they ( the deftones) aren't on top

It's almost silly to assume that you are better at someone at something that they have made millions and have obtained critical success doing. It's like if you were a writer, you could say you're better than JK Rowling, but looking at it realistically do you really think you could achieve as much success or critical acclaim as her?

My point is that I see no problem with seeing professional musicians that way, as they get paid to do something that so many do and that so many have tried to do that have failed. I am not saying that they are gods or anything like that, but it makes perfect sense to hold them in high acclaim.
#37
Quote by Toniofalcon
They're a bunch of guys who are a lot better at making music and a lot more creative than most bands. Most bands suck, honestly. By most bands I'm not meaning just signed ones, I mean unsigned, independent, etc. Those of the majority of bands. There's a lot of luck involved, but many bands just suck or are uncreative and would never be successful on that alone. Be honest. Indie =/= good...to a certain extent there's a reason why the people on top are on top. They're as successful as they are because they beat out the zillions of other bands who tried to have there spot, even though they ( the deftones) aren't on top

It's almost silly to assume that you are better at someone at something that they have made millions and have obtained critical success doing. It's like if you were a writer, you could say you're better than JK Rowling, but looking at it realistically do you really think you could achieve as much success or critical acclaim as her?

My point is that I see no problem with seeing professional musicians that way, as they get paid to do something that so many do and that so many have tried to do that have failed. I am not saying that they are gods or anything like that, but it makes perfect sense to hold them in high acclaim.


This makes a lot of sense, to me at least. I've always seen music as similar to poker, in that those who aren't successful don't blame their own shortcomings but attack the talents of those who are successful.

OK, I'll accept that some successful artists don't deserve to be as big as they are, but in a lot of cases artists are successful because they are just better, whether that's more original, better at songwriting or playing their instruments, than the vast majority.

Quote by Toniofalcon
Most bands suck, honestly.


Sigged.
#38
I just saw a video of a -core band with a screamer and a bassist that sings in autotune that coordinates dance moves and it has traumatized me and made me feel like an ass for that above statement. If that band becomes even remotely successful, I'll eat my drawers. It was just something about that video that really struck me, just overly polished slow motion video seemingly manufactured shit. I love watching old Korn videos where we get to see a white man in addidas suits, with dreads play bagpipes and ultimately sing nursery rhymes....in 94. Korn was such an authentic original band at that time.

Anyway, even after seeing that I still do believe that the very successful in this music business are the best. Many 1 hit wonders have come and go, but there is talent especially in sustaining a career for such a long time. It's hard to get a record deal, it's even harder to become established enough to sustain a 10+ year career with critical and monetary acclaim.
#39
I have the same problem, trying to find a band, but I do think the OP is being a wee bit rigid. I mean I'd like to be in a metal or industrial band, but I'm open to other styles, seeing as I like a lot of other types of music. However, being from a small town where every decent drummer and bassist is taken doesn't help. Even joining the RockSoc at uni has gotten me nowhere yet. :/
I would rather be flawed and wise, than perfect and blind.