#1
My drummer's mom, Jill, is practically the booking manager for me and my band since she knows a lot of festival organizers in our town and has gotten us almost all of our gigs. A couple of months ago she got us this gig in our local mall and the person that organized that gig offered us another gig for my town's gay pride festival. The problem is, Jill doesn't want us to do this gig because it's a gay pride festival, which in her opinion, is a festival that "promotes sin". I know, she's being a retard conservative about this. The real problem is, this gig is gonna pay us $300 and give us some exposure. I know $300 doesn't sound like a lot, but it's a lot to us. But still, Jill doesn't want us to do it. I think the reason she's acting like this is I guess because her son, who is the drummer and kind of the band's leader is only 16, she thinks she should have final say in everything we do, because to her, we're just kids who don't know what we're doing and she knows everything. She also thinks, because she's the self proclaimed manager of the band, what ever we do if gonna reflect on her, so if we do something bad, she thinks it's gonna make her look bad. And of course, she's one of those kinds of people that cares way too much about what people think of her. She's also incredibly stubborn. And from all of that, I'm guessing she thinks since we're all Christians in the band, we should reflect that on to what we do, and she thinks doing a gay pride festival will make us (and her) look bad. But in reality, saying no this gig because it's a gay pride festival will make us look like intolerant homophobics. Even though me and everyone else in the band are pretty liberal. Me and my drummer were talking about this and he thinks we should just do this gig behind her back because this gig is a great opportunity to us. And also, no one else in the band has any problem with doing a gay pride festival as long as it's paying, which it is.

So what I'm asking is, how can we convince this bitch we kind of call our booking manager to let us do this gig? And if we can't convince her, what are some tips for us trying to this gig secretly?

I know that she has no authority to tell us which gigs we can and cannot do, but she thinks she does. So we need some help here.

tl;dr - Our self-proclaimed manager is forbidding me and my band to play at a gay pride festival because she's a stubborn conservative bitch. Even though the gig is paying us $300, which is the most we've ever been paid. So we need help.
Last edited by DanBLON00 at Jul 11, 2010,
#2
Quote by DanBLON00
My drummer's mom, Jill, is practically the booking manager for me and my band since she knows a lot of festival organizers in our town and has gotten us almost all of our gigs. A couple of months ago she got us this gig in our local mall and the person that organized that gig offered us another gig for my town's gay pride festival. The problem is, Jill doesn't want us to do this gig because it's a gay pride festival, which in her opinion, is a festival that "promotes sin". I know, she's being a retard conservative about this. The real problem is, this gig is gonna pay us $300 and give us some exposure. I know $300 doesn't sound like a lot, but it's a lot to us. But still, Jill doesn't want us to do it. I think the reason she's acting like this is I guess because her son, who is the drummer and kind of the band's leader is only 16, she thinks she should have final say in everything we do, because to her, we're just kids who don't know what we're doing and she knows everything. She also thinks, because she's the self proclaimed manager of the band, what ever we do if gonna reflect on her, so if we do something bad, she thinks it's gonna make her look bad. And of course, she's one of those kinds of people that cares way too much about what people think of her. She's also incredibly stubborn. And from all of that, I'm guessing she thinks since we're all Christians in the band, we should reflect that on to what we do, and she thinks doing a gay pride festival will make us (and her) look bad. But in reality, saying no this gig because it's a gay pride festival will make us look like intolerant homophobics. Even though me and everyone else in the band are pretty liberal. Me and my drummer were talking about this and he thinks we should just do this gig behind her back because this gig is a great opportunity to us. And also, no one else in the band has any problem with doing a gay pride festival as long as it's paying, which it is.

So what I'm asking is, how can we convince this bitch we kind of call our booking manager to let us do this gig? And if we can't convince her, what are some tips for us trying to this gig secretly?

I know that she has no authority to tell us which gigs we can and cannot do, but she thinks she does. So we need some help here.

tl;dr - Our self-proclaimed manager is forbidding me and my band to play at a gay pride festival because she's a stubborn conservative bitch. Even though the gig is paying us $300, which is the most we've ever been paid. So we need help.

She's your drummer's mom, she's not a legal booking agent. I'd say book it behind her back (yourselves, if you're smart enough, or get someone else's parent to do it) because there's not really any point in trying to change her beliefs like that.

I write songs.
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#3
Fire her? No matter what the manager thinks, it's the band's responsibility to ultimately decide where to play. When you're up and coming, any publicity is good publicity, as long as you play well to an audience that will appreciate your style of music, and could lead to more gigs.

Note: I am not an expert. Those are just my two cents.
#4
Play the gig...

She is not only a psycho homophobic bitch..she is picking and choosing her christian values. By leaving out the whole love everybody thing...

How would she feel if you guys didn't want to do a womens rights festival ore something like that.

Play the show! Just don't tell her about it cause she will probably try to pull the drummer from the show.

A fan is a fan weather they are gay or what ever...
#5
Quote by Cowless
Fire her? No matter what the manager thinks, it's the band's responsibility to ultimately decide where to play. When you're up and coming, any publicity is good publicity, as long as you play well to an audience that will appreciate your style of music, and could lead to more gigs.

Note: I am not an expert. Those are just my two cents.



This.

Also, if people at the gay pride parade notice a band filled with Christians going against their conservative 'manager's wishes, it may look good too. I'd play the gig behind my parent's back for $300. You may get recognized, don't worry about where you're playing.

Billy Talent stole milk cartons from local stores for weeks so they could have a makeshift stage so people noticed them. Look where they are now... Rock Band of the year in Canada.
#6
the most important thing i took from the title of this thread was "self-proclaimed." If you want to play the gig, play it. The most she can really do is get mad.
#7
dont do it in her back because she might go to the gay festival and see you

my advice would be to play and look kinda male-ish because yeah, it would give you exposure but you might be known as the gay-pride band (maybe this is why jill doesnt want you to play)

EDIT: and to convince that bitch, well tell her to not be so conservative in the freaking 21st century, that you aint gonna go there to get other men's phone number, that you are there just for the exposure (or the money if you are a sold out, lololololol)

by the way, just wondering, what genre do you play?
Last edited by actaderock at Jul 12, 2010,
#8
Quote by actaderock
by the way, just wondering, what genre do you play?

We kind of like a mix alternative rock and indie with a little bit of punk and metal thrown in.
#9
You're turning your back on someone who has booked almost all of your gigs just because of this one gig?
Chances are that if she finds out that you played the gig (which is quite likely, her being your manager and all) she (and maybe even your drummer) might not care too much bout the band anymore.
Also, while you may not be "intolerant homophobics" some of your fans might be and may turn on you if you go playing at some gay pride festival.

I would just skip this gig if I was you.
You'll Never Walk Alone!
#10
If she was "just" your booking manager and refused to book you a paying gig that you wanted to play, then I would agree with the "dump her" advice.

But she isn't.

First, doing it behind her back is plain stupid. You're doing this for exposure, but this lady who is connected to all sorts of events isn't going to find out? Come on. Either you will get exposure, and she will find out. Or you won't get exposure and she might not find out. Either way, it's a screw up.

Second, she is your drummer's mom. From her perspective, though she might not be able to forbid the band from playing, she *may* prevent your drummer from playing. Have fun with that.

As far as whether some of your potential fans are intolerant homophobes who might not like you if you play the pride festival.... you know, you can't please everybody. You'll probably find that more people will appreciate you being forward and modern in your ideals than you will people who go around looking for redneck glory.

My advice.... suck it up. Otherwise, you'll find yourself looking for a new drummer too. Unless that doesn't represent a problem for you guys, then all bets are off. Do what you want.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#11
This is complicated. Firstly, I will say that if any band I liked refused to do a gig they were offered at a gay pride gig on moral grounds (theirs or anyone they allow to manage/promote them), I would stop supporting them in any way, and spread the information that they did so. Don't underestimate the extent to which people can be angered by such decisions.

If she was a 'normal' employee, I'd recommend you told her that 'you organise this, or you're fired'. Doesn't matter how good she is - she should not be deciding which gigs are 'appropriate' for you to do, only which ones are profitable.

However, you do have a major problem, in that you're all quite young and the drummer is still presumably dependent on her. If you do tell her where she can shove her Bible, she might well refuse to help the band any more, and as Axemanchris suggests, might prevent the drummer playing.

I recommend talking to her, point out that you're not (presumably) a band seeking to advertise yourselves by reference to your religion, and that as a result doing this gig will only do you harm in the eyes of the sort of people...that, really, you shouldn't want as fans. If it upsets her, she doesn't have to do any of the booking, she doesn't have to attend the show, or approve. But you think it's fine to do the gig, and it's not her band, it's yours.
#12
In you position, I'd be keen as anything to do this gig.

Just a practical question - Seeing as your drummer is 16, is he relying on his parents to drive his drum kit to the show?
#13
Quote by jimejames
Just a practical question - Seeing as your drummer is 16, is he relying on his parents to drive his drum kit to the show?

Not exactly, he has a drivers license, but not a car. Both me and my guitarist have our own cars, but we only have enough room for our stuff in them. So my drummer most of the time just needs his mom's van for his drums. But we might be doing this gig sometime in August which means my brother will be home from working at a summer camp, and in that case, we could just borrow his van. I could fit my stuff and his drums in that so we won't need his mom.

And now for everyone, here's an update of what's going on. I talked to Jill today about the gig, and she said that "there's no way her son is gonna play at a gay pride festival". So really, it's not the band she has a problem with playing there, it's her son, the drummer. I told her that it's paying us $300 and it's the most we've every been paid, but she still didn't care. I even told her that she's being homophobic and she just kept saying that "homosexuals are immoral sinners and that us as Christians shouldn't be supporting them". She even set up this scenario: "What if there was this festival that was supporting abortion and everyone was getting abortions there, would you still play there?". I didn't want to tell her that I had no problem with abortions, and that a festival like that would never happen and it had absolutely nothing to do with a pay pride festival, but that would just make her more mad. I also wanted to tell her that her own son had no problem with playing there but that would just get her mad at him and he would get mad at me for getting her mad at him. So as you see, there's no reasoning with this woman, she's a homophobic conservative that's forcing her beliefs on her son, who's actually pretty liberal, but I guess she doesn't know that. She even said "I don't care if you find another drummer, I'm not letting my son play for immoral sinners.". So I guess we might have to do this gig secretly, but like everyone above said; she's gonna find out eventually and maybe stop booking us gigs or even worse pull her son out of the band, which would suck because me and him were the founders of the band and he writes and sings a majority of the songs. So we can't afford losing him. I really don't want to pass this gig up, but we might have to because our drummer's bitch of mom. I guess we're just gonna wait and see what happens over time, she might change her mind.
#14
Quote by DanBLON00
Not exactly, he has a drivers license, but not a car. Both me and my guitarist have our own cars, but we only have enough room for our stuff in them. So my drummer most of the time just needs his mom's van for his drums. But we might be doing this gig sometime in August which means my brother will be home from working at a summer camp, and in that case, we could just borrow his van. I could fit my stuff and his drums in that so we won't need his mom.

And now for everyone, here's an update of what's going on. I talked to Jill today about the gig, and she said that "there's no way her son is gonna play at a gay pride festival". So really, it's not the band she has a problem with playing there, it's her son, the drummer. I told her that it's paying us $300 and it's the most we've every been paid, but she still didn't care. I even told her that she's being homophobic and she just kept saying that "homosexuals are immoral sinners and that us as Christians shouldn't be supporting them". She even set up this scenario: "What if there was this festival that was supporting abortion and everyone was getting abortions there, would you still play there?". I didn't want to tell her that I had no problem with abortions, and that a festival like that would never happen and it had absolutely nothing to do with a pay pride festival, but that would just make her more mad. I also wanted to tell her that her own son had no problem with playing there but that would just get her mad at him and he would get mad at me for getting her mad at him. So as you see, there's no reasoning with this woman, she's a homophobic conservative that's forcing her beliefs on her son, who's actually pretty liberal, but I guess she doesn't know that. She even said "I don't care if you find another drummer, I'm not letting my son play for immoral sinners.". So I guess we might have to do this gig secretly, but like everyone above said; she's gonna find out eventually and maybe stop booking us gigs or even worse pull her son out of the band, which would suck because me and him were the founders of the band and he writes and sings a majority of the songs. So we can't afford losing him. I really don't want to pass this gig up, but we might have to because our drummer's bitch of mom. I guess we're just gonna wait and see what happens over time, she might change her mind.


1st bolded bit: I thought she may have at least had some kind of reasonable point to make until I read this.

2nd bolded bit: Complete logic fail, are people going to be having gay sex at this festival?

3rd bolded bit: Good band managers help and support the band, that's their job. If she doesn't care about the band losing members, not getting exposure and not gaining money then she's one God awful "band manager."

As you said, this is a fantastic opportunity for you. I'm guessing there will be quite a large crowd there and losing a £200, to me, gig because of something ridiculous like this would really piss me off.

As much as you'd like to, you can't just tell his mum to f*ck off. Since the drummer hasn't told his mother he disagrees with her, she probably thinks he supports her messed up view of the world, and he's the one who's going to have to set her straight, probably a bad choice of words given the situation but I hope you understand

Firstly, fire her as your "band manager," she clearly doesn't have the bands best interests in mind.
Secondly, tell the drummer to just man up and tell his mum that he doesn't have the same views as her and that he really wants to play the festival.
If this doesn't work, play the festival anyway, this is a great opportunity that you shouldn't miss. The first paragraph seems like a solid plan, and you could always hire a van for the day if you absolutely needed to.
#15
Just play it. Conservatives are uncultured, hypocritical, intolerant, braindead filth.

I've never met the conservative type who isn't a braindead, narrowminded moron.

Ironically, they are no different from the pharisees Jesus criticised, i.e, forcing their beliefs on people, making a big thing about being seen to do good things, taking laws too far and too literally
Last edited by Cerelil at Jul 12, 2010,
#16
Quote by Cerelil
Just play it. Conservatives are uncultured, hypocritical, intolerant, braindead filth.

I've never met the conservative type who isn't a braindead, narrowminded moron.

Ironically, they are no different from the pharisees Jesus criticised, i.e, forcing their beliefs on people, making a big thing about being seen to do good things, taking laws too far and too literally


i have never met a liberal who isn't a braindead, narrowminded moron
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#17
rainbow jumpsuits. just a thought.
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#19
^let's keep politics out of it, please. There is a thread for that in the pit.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#20
I agree with the suggestion above - firing her is probably going to prove necessary, if not now then at some point later. You cannot, cannot, cannot have a band employee who thinks they can control where the band plays and why they play. What happens if you're offered a spot at a festival and she refuses to let you 'because there's so much drug use'? Or if you want to go on a mini-tour, and she demands to come along as a chaperone?

If she wants something different for the band than you do, her opinion needs to take a back seat, and it doesn't sound like that will happen. I recommend you do it as a band - it's important she realises that her son agrees, but equally that he's not having to do it on his own.
#21
Honestly your drummers got to say that he wants to do the gig. If she can't accept that then fine, she can stop organising stuff for you.

The final line is it seems that one persons discriminatory beliefs are preventing the rest of you from doing what you want; even worse, this person isn't actually in the band. If you weigh it out like that it should be an easy decision.
#22
Use the bible against her then.

Tell her as a human, she has absolutely no right to judge people, and she should let them do what they want, as God will ultimately judge them.

And forcing someone not to "sin" doesn't make them a good person, as "good" involves making the right choice between good and evil.
#23
Actually, you could use the bible against her. Prohibitions against sexuality come from the book of Leviticus, specifically:
18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

11:1-23
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

So basically, if she isn't keeping kosher, she's got no right to preach against homosexuals. Hell, if she doesn't own slaves, she's got no right to preach. Does she make wine sacrifices every Friday night? Slaughter a goat and a lamb on Yom Kippur? Does she believe in sea monsters? All the same book.
Here's a few more passages she might find interesting from the same book.
#24
yeah i don't think that arguing the point with the mother will probably actually help

deeply held personal beliefs are rarely swayed by a barrage of criticism sourced from the internet

one thing that OP has to keep in mind is that if his drummer is 16, he is probably dependent on his family for food and accomodation. if his mother decides she doesn't want him playing in a band that does gay pride events, then it might well become untenable for him to stay in the band. i agree that it's irrational and unfair of her, but that doesn't mean it isn't the situation that OP has to deal with all the same
#25
agreed entirely

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#26
It's a really interesting situation that's going on here, but if you have to give up the drummer, then it's not worth taking the gig - it'll probably sound like crap anyhow.

I find it quite odd how this homosexual issue keeps on appearing in the bandleading forum. One can take the bible (or any piece of literature) and interpret it in any way they wish.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#27
The key issue with the prohibition on homosexuality isn't that it's mentioned in Leviticus - although that certainly helps - but that it's the only one of those forbidden activities to be repeated in the New Testament, albeit not by Jesus (by St. Paul).

Arguing against her is very unlikely to succeed, and I don't think it's worth even trying.
#28
... and arguing about homosexuality or the bible is not really the point of this thread...

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#29
... and arguing about homosexuality or the bible is not really the point of this thread...

CT


Apologies, was just trying to emphasise the probable futility of getting into an argument with her.

TS - whether or not you keep her involved with booking gigs - and I'll repeat that I think you should not do so - you need to make sure she realises that you have the deciding vote over what the band does. These issues are likely to occur again, and she should not believe that she has veto power.
#30
No worries... just trying to keep the thread on track.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#31
Quote by koslack
Actually, you could use the bible against her. Prohibitions against sexuality come from the book of Leviticus, specifically:
18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

11:1-23
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

So basically, if she isn't keeping kosher, she's got no right to preach against homosexuals. Hell, if she doesn't own slaves, she's got no right to preach. Does she make wine sacrifices every Friday night? Slaughter a goat and a lamb on Yom Kippur? Does she believe in sea monsters? All the same book.
Here's a few more passages she might find interesting from the same book.



However, Kosher isn't observed by Christians for this reason: The web of laws the Jews had were replaced by Jesus' new covenant, based on love and and forgiveness etc, Christianity is the only religion that works by being saved by eternal forgiveness, other ones are "you get judged on deeds etc"

You can use that against her too. Theres a quote I love "I am a christian, and I can do anything", because, christians CAN lol. Fundamental, sexually repressed power craving catholics just dont like people to think that way.
#33
Tell her that you're not particularly supporting the gays or doing it for the cause (which you aren't) and that you just want the exposure and the money. Stress this to her. Let her know it's strictly a business issue whether she supports gays or not. Do it in kind of a " who gives a shit about those fagz" kind of manner (.because you really don't care ) . Be frank " are you gonna let those fags blow us out of our best gig??!! ".
#34
I think it ends in "the only religion thread" over in the pit.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.