Poll: Title
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Always
5 7%
Almost all the time
2 3%
Usually
6 8%
About half the time
9 12%
On occasion
25 34%
Rarely
15 21%
Never
11 15%
Voters: 73.
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#1
As the title says, does the end justify the means? Does doing something you would consider morally wrong, and/or something society would look down upon get justified if it's in the service of a good cause? I mean this generally, but let's give an example anyway, shall we. Let's say you're a cop and you're trying to find a serial killer. You've taken into custody a man whom you have good reason to believe has information on aforementioned murderer, but the man won't talk. Would it be okay to pressure this man verbally, or even beat answers out of him?

I think that it doesn't. There are a few select cases where it would be okay, but 99% of the time there's going to be a way around it. Like they say, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

As always, my apologies if it's been done recently, I will delete it if necessary et cetera et cetera
#2
I rape little kids in the hopes that the laws set in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening become stronger.

You're welcome.
#3
Quote by SeveralSpecies
I rape little kids in the hopes that the laws set in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening become stronger.

You're welcome.

I was ready for the typical Pit response, but not the typical /b/ response. Caught me off guard just like the children
#4
Maybe in extremely specific, very rare cases, but for the most part, no.
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#6
Do the means justify the end?
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#7
Has someone been listening to Slipknot lately?

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#10
Quote by genghisgandhi
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Their song "Before I forget" has that phrase in the lyrics, that's all I could gather
#12
Quote by The Madcap
The consequence of an action makes it immoral, not the action itself.


I don't know about that. Raping a child is immoral whether or not the consequence is getting caught, or getting away scott free.
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#13
Quote by Shirate
I don't know about that. Raping a child is immoral whether or not the consequence is getting caught, or getting away scott free.



...Huh?
#14
On occasions. It depends on the circumstances.

For an incredibly cliche' example, if some one knows the location of a bomb that would kill hundreds of people, I don't think I would have a problem beating the person who knows where it is for the location if it means saving that many lives.
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#15
Quote by Shirate
I don't know about that. Raping a child is immoral whether or not the consequence is getting caught, or getting away scott free.

You're not considering the consequences that the child has to deal with, whether the molester is caught or not.
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With your head upon my chest

Where I will annoy you
With every waking breath
Until you, decide to wake up
#16
Quote by WyvernOmega
Has someone been listening to Slipknot lately?

No, just been thinking about Andrew Ryan a bit too much, plus I recently saw the episode of South Park where the parents try to convince the kids not to do drugs with the future self things.
Quote by deathnote29
On occasions. It depends on the circumstances.

For an incredibly cliche' example, if some one knows the location of a bomb that would kill hundreds of people, I don't think I would have a problem beating the person who knows where it is for the location if it means saving that many lives.

Yeah that's one of those extremely rare cases.
Last edited by cornmancer at Jul 14, 2010,
#17
Quote by The Madcap
The consequence of an action makes it immoral, not the action itself.

That's silly. If that were the case, then people could accidentally be immoral. Or intend to do "evil" things yet turn out morally correct. It's just nonsensical.
#18
Only if you're a commie.
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#19
This question reminds me of utlitarianism- the moral action being the one that provides the 'greatest good for the greatest number of people'. Like in Watchmen, when Ozymandias kills millions to save billions.

Did that end justify the means? No, in my opinion. Utilitarianism can go to hell. The metric of a human being shouldn't be defined in terms of utility. We shouldn't be regarded as mere vessels of utility, we should be considered, each and every one of us, as an individual human being.

/liberal egalitarianism
/John Rawls (Theory of Justice)

Of course, its not easy to generalise anything. But I prescribe to liberal principles of individual justifiability.
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#21
Yup.

Would I kill a man who hid my sandwich machine? Read:Woman

You're damn right I would.

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#22
Very case by case, it all depends on how sharp the contrast.
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#23
Quote by Shirate
I don't know about that. Raping a child is immoral whether or not the consequence is getting caught, or getting away scott free.
Consequence, not punishment. The reason rape is wrong is because of the suffering it causes the victim. Not because it gets you into prison sometimes.
#24
Quote by captaincrunk
That's silly. If that were the case, then people could accidentally be immoral. Or intend to do "evil" things yet turn out morally correct. It's just nonsensical.
Sure, they could accidentally do something wrong, when they had good intentions. Don't see anything crazy about that...
#25
Quote by The Madcap
Sure, they could accidentally do something wrong, when they had good intentions. Don't see anything crazy about that...

Wrong meaning immoral. Therefore accidents are immoral? That's nonsensical. That would mean things could be moral (or immoral) without even having rational agents around. Under your reasoning you could say that the comet that killed the dinosaurs (assuming that's what happened) was immoral.
#26
Yes, if you are faced with a situation that requires a sacrifice that is small to prevent an event that would devastate a lot, do it. If you have to kill 1 person to save a million, do it, they'd have died for a noble cause.
#27
WAR
prime example
soldiers kill other soldiers- for what?
the "end result" temporary freedom, ect ect
so is it ok to kill another human being??
murder is wrong. period.
but is it justified murder?
**ponders***
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#28
I swear we have a thread like this every week... it's just stupid pit monkeys trying to sound intelligent and philosophical.
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#29
Quote by M0lliP0Ps
WAR
prime example
soldiers kill other soldiers- for what?
the "end result" temporary freedom, ect ect
so is it ok to kill another human being??
murder is wrong. period.
but is it justified murder?
**ponders***

It's etc.
Kill me.
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#31
Quote by Jackal58
It's etc.
Kill me.


LOL
NOT the point....
Quote by spanishyanez
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a M0lliP0Ps?


the world may never know!

e-married to KENSAI

如果你可以阅读这个,你是中国人。
#33
Quote by M0lliP0Ps
LOL
NOT the point....

Education is never a bad thing.
Comes from many places.
Replacing "etc" with "ect" is one of my pet peeves. Et Cetera.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

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I can fap to this. Keep going.
#34
Quote by captaincrunk
Wrong meaning immoral. Therefore accidents are immoral?
The action was immoral, the intentions weren't.
Quote by captaincrunk
That would mean things could be moral (or immoral) without even having rational agents around. Under your reasoning you could say that the comet that killed the dinosaurs (assuming that's what happened) was immoral.
When I say "actions", I'm using this definition "an act that one consciously wills and that may be characterized by physical or mental activity"
#35
Quote by The Madcap
The action was immoral, the intentions weren't.When I say "actions", I'm using this definition "an act that one consciously wills and that may be characterized by physical or mental activity"

Hitler thought he was moral.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

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Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

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I can fap to this. Keep going.
#36
Quote by Jackal58
Education is never a bad thing.
Comes from many places.
Replacing "etc" with "ect" is one of my pet peeves. Et Cetera.


hAHa normally i would fix it....
but ill let you look extremely smarter then me
i happen to be very EDUMACATED !!
Quote by spanishyanez
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a M0lliP0Ps?


the world may never know!

e-married to KENSAI

如果你可以阅读这个,你是中国人。
#37
Quote by M0lliP0Ps
hAHa normally i would fix it....
but ill let you look extremely smarter then me
i happen to be very EDUMACATED !!

You indeed are.
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Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

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Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

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I can fap to this. Keep going.
#38
an I.Q. based genocide would fit perfecty in this world, so I say that killing alot of stupid people would justify the need of a better world.
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Nicely put good sir

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#39
Absolutely a case-by-case thing.
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