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#1
Useing alternat picking. Do u just speed up right hand to go up and down faster? What is hybrid picking ?
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#2
Hybrid picking is when you play with pick and use your middle, ring and pinky finger aswell.
Alternative picking makes fast playing alot more easier. Play slowly to build up your speed.
I also recomend getting Guitar Pro to help you build up speed.
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#3
Speed is a by-product of precision. When you can pick using small precise movements it's easy to speed up.
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#4
People on here will say you can't 'work on' speed - you can. But, only to a certain point. Sure, you might be able to metronome your way from 80bpm to 110bpm, but without working on accuracy and minimal movement you'll hit a plateau you'll likely never get over.

Work on the minimal movements and work with a metronome.
#5
i dont wanna do yngwie fast or paul gilbert. SOme of that stuff sounds dumb fast to me. I mean like hendrix,page,clapton, slash, mustane , metallica stuff like that. I dunno what speed that is. Kind of like symphony of destruction solo fast thas like max i wanna do
My newest cover Rivers Of Babylon sublime style.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J_E7iWLxmiA


My gear:
taylor 310
Fender strat MiM
Cry Baby-GCB-95
Tone port ux2
tascam dp4
80s rock, classic rock, classic metal
#6
It doesn't matter how fast or slow you want to play, the principle is exactly the same.

Practice things at a speed where you can play them accurately and without mistakes, when you're conistently playing it correctly without any trouble then you can look to increase the speed a little and repeat the process.

Focus on playing accurately and keeping control over your hands, if things start flailing around out of control or your hands won't stay in sync then you're going too fast.
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#7
To play fast, you must learn to play slow and precisely

Simple as that.

Focus on accuracy: Speed is a byproduct of that

more or less what seagull said
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#8
Don't forget, you can pick from the wrist or the forearm. Some guitarists find they can play faster by moving the wrist and keeping the forearm still, others find a need to move the whole forearm on faster passages. Do what works for you and what feels right to you.

Also, don't forget anchoring, which is where you rest one or more of your picking hand fingers on the scratchplate of the guitar while you pick; this helps steady the picking hand so you can pick more accurately rather than just having your picking hand 'floating' above the strings.

You will develop speed with time; there is no great mystery to it but it does take time to develop.
#9
Quote by GuitarManNeil
Don't forget, you can pick from the wrist or the forearm. Some guitarists find they can play faster by moving the wrist and keeping the forearm still, others find a need to move the whole forearm on faster passages. Do what works for you and what feels right to you.

Also, don't forget anchoring, which is where you rest one or more of your picking hand fingers on the scratchplate of the guitar while you pick; this helps steady the picking hand so you can pick more accurately rather than just having your picking hand 'floating' above the strings.

You will develop speed with time; there is no great mystery to it but it does take time to develop.

Jesus, you couldn't give out worse advice if you tried.

Those two are both massive no-no's that can lead to people f*ching up their hand and arm.
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#10
Something that nobody specifically mentioned yet is that you need to feel relaxed when you're practicing something slowly. If your hands are tensed up or the way you're holding the pick feels uncomfortable or something when you're playing something at a slow pace, it's only going to be worse when you're going crazy with sixteenths at 220BPM or something. This kind of follows logically from the whole "start at a slow, comfortable tempo where you can play whatever it is perfectly each time" thing, but I think it's important to emphasize that.

And on anchoring, Freepower did a good job of explaining why it's bad technique. If you want to understand why anchoring is a bad idea, read that. If you want to learn how to stop, you should still read it because he talks about that. Otherwise, you'll be fine just not doing it and knowing that it's not a good idea.
#11
How to play fast in two words; play slow.

Sounds stupid but practicing slow is the real deal. Play as slow as needed for you to play it clean, and keep it that way. Eventually you'll be much faster then you were before.
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#12
Practising at slow speeds is the only way to get fast. I ignored that idea for far too long and could have put my time to better use. Speed is a by product of accuracy.
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#13
Quote by steven seagull
It doesn't matter how fast or slow you want to play, the principle is exactly the same.

Practice things at a speed where you can play them accurately and without mistakes, when you're conistently playing it correctly without any trouble then you can look to increase the speed a little and repeat the process.

Focus on playing accurately and keeping control over your hands, if things start flailing around out of control or your hands won't stay in sync then you're going too fast.



This.

The best way to build "accuracy without mistakes" is through practice with a metronome. Start slowly and when you can play that speed smoothly and consistently, then you increase the speed a little
#14
Man, is it 'Aleksi' or someone who's sig is 'Speed is a by-product of SHUT THE FÚCK UP!'

People on here repeating things blindly. Winds me up. It's like UGers just love parrotting slogans. Someone did it to me yesterday, repeating my advice as if it was their own, when they couldn't possibly have had enough time to test the method out for themselves.

Speed is NOT purely a by-product of accuracy. You have to work with a metronome. People on here that go on about it make out like if you practice at 20bpm for a year you'll all of a sudden be able to play at 220....wrong.

Anyway, rant over. Basically, listen to everything the seagull says.
#15
Quote by GilbertsPinky

Speed is NOT purely a by-product of accuracy.

If you aren't playing it accurately then you're playing it too fast. No one aims to be able to play quickly but sloppily. Think about what you are saying.
People on here that go on about it make out like if you practice at 20bpm for a year you'll all of a sudden be able to play at 220....wrong.

Is anyone in this thread even saying that? If you play at 20bpm for a year then you'll find it very easy to move up to 28bpm. That's how it works, and that's what I've heard people say round these parts.
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Last edited by 18th_Angel at Jul 16, 2010,
#16
Quote by 18th_Angel
If you aren't playing it accurately then you're playing it to fast. No one aims to be able to play wuickly but sloppily. Think about what you are saying.

Is anyone in this thread even saying that? If you play at 20bpm for a year then you'll find it very easy to move up to 28bpm. That's how it works, and that's what I've heard people say round these parts.

No, you're not playing it too fast. There is stuff that you can't nail, yet don't have to slow it down in order to be able to nail it. And this is me talking from actual experience, not repeating what i hear on UG, where the blind lead the blind.

Your second part confirms this: 'That's how it works, and that's what I've heard people say round these parts.'

You're clearly one of these people who cannot play fast, have not tried the method for yourself, and are merely repeating what you hear on here. In fact, you just as much admitted it.

Anyway, that's all i will say on the matter. Back to helping people! Woo.
#17
There is stuff that you can't nail, yet don't have to slow it down in order to be able to nail it.
This doesn't even make sense. Did you even read my post? I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. You have made your mind up and you clearly have some irrational vendetta against this practising technique.
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#18
Quote by 18th_Angel
This doesn't even make sense. Did you even read my post? I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. You have made your mind up and you clearly have some irrational vendetta against this practising technique.

No, i don't have anything against it. What i have a problem with is people repeating advice they've clearly not tried for themselves - hence the speed is a by product slogan that about 200 people in this forum like to tell everyone.

And yes it does make sense. For example.

Broken arpeggiated m7b5 chord in 'The Curse of Castle Dragon' - it was a strange combination of fingers that i'd never encountered before, yet i didn't slow it down. I played it at normal speed for a day, and now i can play it flawlessly even though at first it was too fast because of the fingering involved. Get it?! You don't always have to play slow to play fast, that is just something made up by technique junkies.
#19
Quote by GilbertsPinky
No, i don't have anything against it. What i have a problem with is people repeating advice they've clearly not tried for themselves - hence the speed is a by product slogan that about 200 people in this forum like to tell everyone.

And yes it does make sense. For example.

Broken arpeggiated m7b5 chord in 'The Curse of Castle Dragon' - it was a strange combination of fingers that i'd never encountered before, yet i didn't slow it down. I played it at normal speed for a day, and now i can play it flawlessly even though at first it was too fast because of the fingering involved. Get it?! You don't always have to play slow to play fast, that is just something made up by technique junkies.

I know the riff you are talking about, I've spent a lot of time working on the curse of castle dragon, it's my favourite Paul Gilbert track. You couldn't play it at first because your hand didn't know it, it wasn't ingrained in your muscle memory - not because it was too fast for you. As you are learning that song you probably already have a decent technique or have been playing for a few years, and that lick isn't particularly hard. Why don't you just try learning a part of the solo to that song and see if it isn't easier to commit to memory playing it at 50 or 60 % speed than it is going at it at full tempo every time?
And I'm pointing out that your logic is wrong. Because you don't need to slow it down to learn it doesn't mean it isn't more efficient to learn it at slower speeds.
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#20
Who cares about being 'efficient' ?! People seem to forget that playing guitar is about being a MUSICIAN. Most of you on here try and turn it into a mechanical exercise. And yes, it was too fast for me, as was the descending run in Am, but i ploughed through that without slowing it down and can now play it. Trust me, it WAS too fast, because i can play using them finger combinations. Any way of explaining that? Oh, and just as a side note - i have terrible finger independence...my pinky and ring fingers also fly off the fretboard quite far. How is it possible that i can play licks that quickly without slowing them down and without working on technique?!
#21
Quote by GilbertsPinky
Who cares about being 'efficient' ?! People seem to forget that playing guitar is about being a MUSICIAN. Most of you on here try and turn it into a mechanical exercise. And yes, it was too fast for me, as was the descending run in Am, but i ploughed through that without slowing it down and can now play it. Trust me, it WAS too fast, because i can play using them finger combinations. Any way of explaining that? Oh, and just as a side note - i have terrible finger independence...my pinky and ring fingers also fly off the fretboard quite far. How is it possible that i can play licks that quickly without slowing them down and without working on technique?!

Now you've just contradicted what you said earlier in the thread. You're arguing for the sake of argument and doing a terrible job of it at that, give it up. If it's too fast for you, you practice it at slower speeds. Everyone says it works BECAUSE IT DOES. This is how I ALWAYS practice and since adopting this method my pace of learning has gone up sharply.
Inhuman evil take down!
#22
Who cares about being 'efficient' ?! People seem to forget that playing guitar is about being a MUSICIAN. Most of you on here try and turn it into a mechanical exercise. And yes, it was too fast for me, as was the descending run in Am, but i ploughed through that without slowing it down and can now play it. Trust me, it WAS too fast, because i can play using them finger combinations. Any way of explaining that? Oh, and just as a side note - i have terrible finger independence...my pinky and ring fingers also fly off the fretboard quite far. How is it possible that i can play licks that quickly without slowing them down and without working on technique?!


Whoa, man. Chill out a bit.

Slow practice is very useful for many things. It's not the only way to do things, but it is the most useful for the most people out of any single method I know. Generally speaking I've found that slow practice has been the most effective portion of my practice and that piling on through only works with learning licks or songs that are roughly within one's capabilities - for correcting unconscious flaws you really need to slow down.

And yes, people here will tend to talk about the mechanics of guitar... it's kind of the point of the forum.

And yes, you can play fast without slowing down. Although it might be handy to nix that flying pinky sometime.
#23
Quote by steven seagull
Jesus, you couldn't give out worse advice if you tried.

Those two are both massive no-no's that can lead to people f*ching up their hand and arm.


You're full of shit mate. There are plenty of pro guitarists who pick from the forearm. I don't recommend it, nor do I advocate it, but lots of players do. It really depends on the individual and how it feels to them.

Before you bash my advice, do your research and you'll find plenty of sources that say you can pick with either the wrist or the forearm, and you'll find plenty of players who move their whole forearm while picking fast.
#24
I find that moving my strumming hand in a tight circle speeds up my playing... just gotta tighten it up once I get going to reduce unwanted attack.

Probably terrible advice, but it works well for me when I need to push it. I also use this technique for galloping, so going between the two is natural.
Last edited by Concat at Jul 16, 2010,
#25
Quote by GuitarManNeil
You're full of shit mate. There are plenty of pro guitarists who pick from the forearm. I don't recommend it, nor do I advocate it, but lots of players do. It really depends on the individual and how it feels to them.

Before you bash my advice, do your research and you'll find plenty of sources that say you can pick with either the wrist or the forearm, and you'll find plenty of players who move their whole forearm while picking fast.

No, you're full of shit.

Just because people do those things doesn't mean they're a good idea. Both those "techniques" introduce unecessary tension and friction which are both bad for not just your playing but your arm in general - that's not an opinion or a personal preference, it's a proven fact. Of course there's always going to be some forearm movement, if it's roch solid again there's going to be tension. However, the majority of the picking action should always come from the wrist.
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Last edited by steven seagull at Jul 16, 2010,
#26
Quote by steven seagull
No, you're full of shit.

Just because people do those things doesn't mean they're a good idea. Both those "techniques" introduce unecessary tension and friction which are both bad for not just your playing but your arm in general - that's not an opinion or a personal preference, it's a proven fact. Of course there's always going to be some forearm movement, if it's roch solid again there's going to be tension. However, the majority of the picking action should always come from the wrist.


If you'd read both my replies PROPERLY, you'd have noticed I said that I DON'T advocate picking from the forearm. But lots of guitarists DO pick from the forearm, and lots of tuition material discusses picking from the forearm, this is FACT and NOT something I made up, so don't say I'm full of shit when I'm simply laying down the facts.

I do agree that picking from the forearm introduces unnecessary tension, however it does work for some and it highly depends on what the individual prefers.

You can pick from the wrist OR the forearm. I prefer wrist. As the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat....
Last edited by GuitarManNeil at Jul 16, 2010,
#27
Quote by GuitarManNeil
If you'd read both my replies PROPERLY, you'd have noticed I said that I DON'T advocate picking from the forearm. But lots of guitarists DO pick from the forearm, and lots of tuition material discusses picking from the forearm, this is FACT and NOT something I made up, so don't say I'm full of shit when I'm simply laying down the facts.

I do agree that picking from the forearm introduces unnecessary tension, however it does work for some and it highly depends on what the individual prefers.

You can pick from the wrist OR the forearm. I prefer wrist. As the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat....

Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be. Suggesting the use of a technique you know is poor is just going to confuse people. It is a fact that many guitarists and instructors use/suggest anchoring or picking from the elbow and it is possible to achieve good results using those techniques, however, it is NOT an efficient way to play and CAN lead to injury. It is far better to pick from the wrist and not to anchor.

As for the whole speed issue: slow down, practise with a metronome and work on keeping your motions small, economical and relaxed.
Speed is a by-product of shut the fuck up.
#28
He's just getting picky about "proper technique." I would never suggest someone try picking using their forearm... but if some beast of a shredder uses his forearm to put me to shame, I'm not gonna get all high and mighty that he's not using proper technique.

I mean, not all guitarists hold their pick the same either. You see some pretty talented people do some weird stuff. Some people hold pens/pencils pretty damn funny too, but their penmanship is immaculate.
#29
Quote by Concat
He's just getting picky about "proper technique." I would never suggest someone try picking using their forearm... but if some beast of a shredder uses his forearm to put me to shame, I'm not gonna get all high and mighty that he's not using proper technique.

I mean, not all guitarists hold their pick the same either. You see some pretty talented people do some weird stuff. Some people hold pens/pencils pretty damn funny too, but their penmanship is immaculate.


Exactly man. I'm sick of people preaching their 'perfect technique' stuff. The concept of 'perfect technique' presupposes that there's a 'one size fits all' way to play the guitar, which is simply not true.

I'll tell you a fact that will enlighten a few people: MOST GUITAR HEROES BREAK THE RULES OF 'PERFECT TECHNIQUE' AND INSTEAD DO WHAT WORKS FOR THEM. This is what makes them unique.

Everyone from Hendrix to Van Halen to Brian May broke the rules of 'perfect technique' and found what worked best for them.

Anyway, people can pick how they like; if it's 'unorthodox' or not 'perfect technique' but works well for them then who cares what a book says.
#30
Quote by GuitarManNeil
Exactly man. I'm sick of people preaching their 'perfect technique' stuff. The concept of 'perfect technique' presupposes that there's a 'one size fits all' way to play the guitar, which is simply not true.

I'll tell you a fact that will enlighten a few people: MOST GUITAR HEROES BREAK THE RULES OF 'PERFECT TECHNIQUE' AND INSTEAD DO WHAT WORKS FOR THEM. This is what makes them unique.

Everyone from Hendrix to Van Halen to Brian May broke the rules of 'perfect technique' and found what worked best for them.

Anyway, people can pick how they like; if it's 'unorthodox' or not 'perfect technique' but works well for them then who cares what a book says.


Been following this, but have to post now.

I agree that nuances in someone's playing style help define them, however it is entirely possible that they ARE "doing it wrong", from a purely technical standpoint. There is no sense fighting tension when you could eliminate it before it begins, this is not subjective; after all this is the technique forum.

Also, everybody's bound to call you out anyway, so I'll start. Hendrix, Van Halen and Brian May are not the most technically proficient guitarists.
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#31
Quote by GuitarManNeil
Exactly man. I'm sick of people preaching their 'perfect technique' stuff. The concept of 'perfect technique' presupposes that there's a 'one size fits all' way to play the guitar, which is simply not true.

One size does fit all, our muscles, tendons and the like all work the same way and we're in proportion... Unless you have some kind of deformity, you're the same as everyone else in this respect.

I'll tell you a fact that will enlighten a few people: MOST GUITAR HEROES BREAK THE RULES OF 'PERFECT TECHNIQUE' AND INSTEAD DO WHAT WORKS FOR THEM. This is what makes them unique.

They do break the rules, that's not necessarily what makes them "unique". Simply put, they didn't know any better. People don't get famous for having great technique, they get famous for the music they produce, no matter which way you look at it, your argument is null.

Anyway, people can pick how they like; if it's 'unorthodox' or not 'perfect technique' but works well for them then who cares what a book says.

Most of the people posting here have a problem, thus what they're doing isn't working for them. Perfect technique is something that's going to work for everybody and it's a lot easier and less physically demanding to use perfect technique.
Speed is a by-product of shut the fuck up.
#32
Quote by Aleksi

They do break the rules, that's not necessarily what makes them "unique". Simply put, they didn't know any better. People don't get famous for having great technique, they get famous for the music they produce, no matter which way you look at it, your argument is null.

I agree with you on every part of your post, aside from this. Rusty Cooley, Francisco Fareri, Ron Jarzombek and Tiego Della Vega come to mind. I wouldn't have known of them unless they had been hailed as having major chops. Some good music in there though.
Same comes to mind with certain drummers, but unfortunately I can't recall names at the moment.
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#33
I'll tell you a fact that will enlighten a few people: MOST GUITAR HEROES BREAK THE RULES OF 'PERFECT TECHNIQUE' AND INSTEAD DO WHAT WORKS FOR THEM. This is what makes them unique.

Everyone from Hendrix to Van Halen to Brian May broke the rules of 'perfect technique' and found what worked best for them.




I don't think any of those guys would like to be defined by their technique - it's like complimenting a chef on his saucepans or something.

If something works for someone - it creates a good sound, doesn't harm your playing in the long term - then it works for a reason. There are not many "rules" to having perfect technique, but I wouldn't say that any of those guys broke those rules.

Regardless, perfect technique in one context is terrible technique in another. Trying to play classical style on an amplified electric guitar through a high gain amp just does not work. There is no one standard for "perfect".

Mark and Neil, a word of advice, starting with "You're full of shit" will never lead anywhere constructive.

Speed is NOT purely a by-product of accuracy. You have to work with a metronome. People on here that go on about it make out like if you practice at 20bpm for a year you'll all of a sudden be able to play at 220....wrong.


I think if you had just capitalised "purely" instead of "not" things might not have got so heated - you can't be a complete player from slow practice any more than you can build a top quality chair with just one tool. It's an important tool (a saw maybe), but you're definitely right about it not being the only tool.

One size does fit all, our muscles, tendons and the like all work the same way and we're in proportion... Unless you have some kind of deformity, you're the same as everyone else in this respect.


That's really not the case, there's a significant degree of variation. There's a bell curve kinda thing going on, but if you deal with enough people you gain an appreciation for some of the tricky things weird hands have to deal with.

Anyway, do try and keep it somewhat civil or there will be official warnings. That is all.
#34
Quote by GuitarManNeil


Also, don't forget anchoring, which is where you rest one or more of your picking hand fingers on the scratchplate of the guitar while you pick; this helps steady the picking hand so you can pick more accurately rather than just having your picking hand 'floating' above the strings.


Have to disagree on this for sure.
#35
Quote by Freepower
That's really not the case, there's a significant degree of variation. There's a bell curve kinda thing going on, but if you deal with enough people you gain an appreciation for some of the tricky things weird hands have to deal with.

Could you provide an example?
Please bear in mind, I'm not talking about things such as hand size reducing your potential stretch or limitations in flexibility. What I was referring to was the way in which muscles work, the positions they work best in, ways to efficiently apply force ect.

Edit: Also note that I'm discounting medical conditions.
Speed is a by-product of shut the fuck up.
Last edited by Aleksi at Jul 16, 2010,
#36
Well, flexibility and available stretch makes a pretty large difference, discount them and you've only really got proportion to talk about.

If you have large hands, or a longer thumb than average, having the thumb over the neck will be less of a hindrance in stretchier runs.

If you have larger hands then a slightly angled hand with the fingers pointing more towards the bridge than parallel to the frets can give an impressive amount of reach and apply significant force.

If you have stiffer hands it can be worth changing the angle of the hand in various chords, and neutral pick positions are going to be much more useful (Gilbert not Benson style holding).

Also just a host of little things.
#37
Quote by Freepower
Well, flexibility and available stretch makes a pretty large difference, discount them and you've only really got proportion to talk about.

If you have large hands, or a longer thumb than average, having the thumb over the neck will be less of a hindrance in stretchier runs.

If you have larger hands then a slightly angled hand with the fingers pointing more towards the bridge than parallel to the frets can give an impressive amount of reach and apply significant force.

If you have stiffer hands it can be worth changing the angle of the hand in various chords, and neutral pick positions are going to be much more useful (Gilbert not Benson style holding).

Also just a host of little things.

Yes, I was aware of those, however, I don't count them as things that alter perfect technique. Certain things such as large hands, large available stretch and good flexibility can make it easier to get away with poorer technique, but they will still find optimum usage when perfect technique is applied.
Speed is a by-product of shut the fuck up.
#38
Quote by Freepower

That's really not the case, there's a significant degree of variation. There's a bell curve kinda thing going on, but if you deal with enough people you gain an appreciation for some of the tricky things weird hands have to deal with.


+1

We're absolutely NOT "in proportion". Everyone is proportioned slightly differently. Yes, the muscles and tendons work in the same way, but they are different shapes and sizes for each individual.

There is "perfect technique", which is really designed for the "perfect hand" playing the "perfect guitar". There's hardly anyone with "perfect hands", more likely they'll be some variation on that- making some aspects of "perfect technique" easier, and others harder. Also you have to consider that each person uses their hands for different things (different jobs etc) so the muscles will be built up slightly differently for each person.

When you're teaching someone, you're really trying to get them as close to "perfect technique" as they can go- because this it the most efficient way to play.

As for the pro's using less than perfect technique, you have to remember that this "perfect" technique is what you practice to be able to achieve. Live situations are never perfect, again you can only get as close as possible. There's also the thing of when you get in to the music you're thinking of that: THE MUSIC; you're not thinking about your technique so much.

The idea is that you practice with the aim to get perfect technique (and hopefully, you get there!). Then, when you get up on stage, you just play- you're not thinking about technique. The two things eventually come pretty close, but you're never going to be in the same situation live on stage that you are in a studio/bedroom/wherever you practice- you'll never have to deal with the same conditions.

You need to work on becoming comfortable with "perfect technique" (or as close as possible), so that in "real life" you don't have to think about it.

In conclusion, "perfect technique" is really an ideal- a target to aim for. I'm not saying it's impossible to achieve (it's not, this is what you should all be focusing on). There is ALOT of variation that can happen from person to person, or situation to situation.

That doesn't change what's good technique.

Also, this is a technique forum, so it makes sense that we talk about "perfect" or "good" technique here, and how to achieve it.

[/rant]
#39
Don't worry about speed, worry about control. Then speed will naturally follow.

Also hybrid picking is a country thing, it has such a different sound to it...
#40
Quote by Aleksi
Yes, I was aware of those, however, I don't count them as things that alter perfect technique. Certain things such as large hands, large available stretch and good flexibility can make it easier to get away with poorer technique, but they will still find optimum usage when perfect technique is applied.


It doesn't just make it easier to get away with bad technique - it changes the optimum approach. If you have large hands, certain kinds of stretches are best achieved with a different hand angle. Look at Allan Holdsworth and Shawn Lane - Shawn has small hands and uses conventional stretch (coming evenly from the index and little side of the hand) whereas Allan angles his hand forwards and more stretch comes from the index.

Imho, that's the better way to get stretch for 4nps if you have big hands, which I've certainly found to be the case among my pupils and in my personal experimentation.

ED: and obviously a big +1 to chainsaw!
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