#1
So I've been looking into one of these and for the price seems solid. I like that its got 2 channels, an fx loop, and built in reverb but I've read that there are some realiability issues. I know the footswitch is basically made out of extremely cheap plastic but are there really any other issues? Have any of you experienced anything?
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#2
Bugeras in general aren't well built, but in that price range it's not unusual. They had some really bad problems with the early versions of their original models, but those seem to have gone away. As far as the footswitch goes, sure it looks cheap, but it's just a switch in a box. There's not a lot to break, and even if it does a new switch is $5.

Try one before you buy it - I didn't like how the V22 was voiced at all. It's very one-dimensional and fizzy.
#3
The footswitches are pretty sturdy plastic encased in metal. Haven't heard of one breaking so far.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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#4
well let me put some things to rest right now.

i disagree with most thing that have been said. ive been playing one about 2-5 hours a day for about 1 month now. SOLID AMP for the price. there are only 2 amps in the world that offer that kind of bang for your buck: v22, and the jet city 20 watt combo. i went with bugera cause my local store had it and i want 2 channels.

fairly solid build. sure not top of the line but remember what it is and what your paying. everything in teh back is CLEAN and well laid out. simple.

everything works well, no issues. foot switch is solid metal cased and the actual switches (more like buttons) are plastic. basically, there are two plastic pads that depress into a metal case. so if you press to far, you hit metal...not plastic. i see now way it could break unless your hitting it with a sledge hammer, or you somehow crack the pastic peice with a screw driver or something.

ive been stomping on it hours a night for a month and there is no wear. and its cheap to replace from bugera.

for the price paid it sounds GREAT. easily comprable to cheaper fender amps like an old fender champ 25 watt and even a hot rod. i know because my roommate owns both, and in some ways the v22 sounds better, some worse.

i definitely like the dirty channel better than any sound i can get out of my boss pedal if that tells you anything. in the future i plan on putting an eminence speaker and JJ tubes. then it will shine.

stock tubes probably arent the greatest, so you know right off the bad the amp can sound better. and tubes are cheap.

basically for thier size, specs, and price the v22 and jet city are teh best amps on the market brand new. ive done my shopping. its a fact. pick one.
#5
Thanks a lot for all your help guys. I plan on going to the store soon and see what I like best
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#6
I own a bugera V22 and I'm extremely pleased with it- no signs of problems with the build or anything for that matter and I've owned one about 7 months or something like that

Quote by Roc8995
Try one before you buy it - I didn't like how the V22 was voiced at all. It's very one-dimensional and fizzy.


I can definietly see how you would think this of the overdrive channel, if you have the gain over 7. This amp is not a high gain amp, and if you really need a high gain sound, then you will end up getting quite a fizzy sound after about "7" on the gain. However, this amp is not built for that sort of stuff, and aslong as you keep the gain moderate (less than 7), then the overdrive channel is superb! Another thing to add is the awesomeness of the clean channel- extremely good at taking pedals! I put a ehx big muff pedal through it I think it compliments the amp so well; it has such a big, crunchy and thick none-"one dimensional" sound for such a good priced amp that I play in my 2piece band (guitar and drums) with ease!
#7
No, I don't play with high gain. I tried it at every gain setting but most of my time on the OD channel was spent with the gain between 3 and 5. I just didn't like it. I didn't get to use it with pedals, so I'm sure that helps - a muff would probably be a great choice, considering the low end on this thing - but I promise I did a lot of testing before coming to those conclusions. Sorry.
Do you use it with an extension cab? I can see that helping.
#8
All the statements are pretty accurate in here. If you go used on the V22, the older models had a switching issue which involved an under powered regulator freaking out at the first sign of heat and kicking back to the clean channel. To my knowledge this problem has been remedied but if not, most techs can replace the part easily. Fwiw, I've never had this issue but have read a lot about it.

Secondly, the stock tubes seem to have a track record of tube rattle. I know my V55 has it and I've learned to live with it until I've got the cash to get them swapped. Other then that, I really like it. Sounds fantastic, well beyond what the price tag would imply
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#9
Quote by Roc8995
No, I don't play with high gain. I tried it at every gain setting but most of my time on the OD channel was spent with the gain between 3 and 5. I just didn't like it. I didn't get to use it with pedals, so I'm sure that helps - a muff would probably be a great choice, considering the low end on this thing - but I promise I did a lot of testing before coming to those conclusions. Sorry.
Do you use it with an extension cab? I can see that helping.

You used the combo? The speaker is pretty much crap.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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#10
It only comes in a combo. The V55 comes in a head, but that's a rather different amp.
#11
Quote by Roc8995
It only comes in a combo. The V55 comes in a head, but that's a rather different amp.

Ah, right. Must've confused them. Either way though, the speaker is crap.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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#12
Yes, I'll certainly agree with that. Bugera should start stocking Warehouse speakers in their cabs. Their no-name house speakers are really quite bad. A lot of their amps go from decent to rather good with a proper cab, which is a shame considering the price.
#13
considering the price? you mean cinsidering they are the cheapest tube amps actually worth money??

i mean you cant put celestions in them. the speakers would be worth as much as the rest of the amp.

and yeah, the v55 uses 6l6, not sl84s. so probably sounds different
#14
Yeah, considering the price. For another $25 they could throw a proper speaker in there from the factory and be something that people would buy not because they're cheap, but because they sound good.
That's the problem with Bugera, they have a great base product but they cut just enough corners, so I have to call them "good amps for the price" instead of "great amps." It allows more people to afford a tube amp, but they're never going to lose the cheap imitation amp image if they don't make some changes.
#15
Quote by ikey_
considering the price? you mean cinsidering they are the cheapest tube amps actually worth money??

i mean you cant put celestions in them. the speakers would be worth as much as the rest of the amp.

and yeah, the v55 uses 6l6, not sl84s. so probably sounds different

Plenty of good budget speakers around. Don't need to put a Celestion in there.

@Roc: so get one of the heads.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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#16
Don't you tempt me, you bastard. I'll end up with three of them that I'll pull apart and replace half the parts on, and it will be a terrible disease.
#17
Quote by Roc8995
Don't you tempt me, you bastard. I'll end up with three of them that I'll pull apart and replace half the parts on, and it will be a terrible disease.

Hey, you could be the first UGer to get the upcoming Magician!

(Good luck soldering inside that, I bet it'll be like a Mesa except not as tidy.)
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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#18
Aren't those hand-wired though? I know my hands are bigger than the 12 year old Malaysian orphan who wired it, but at least it won't be the ribbon cable and super cramped PCB that Mesas have. What Mark is it a clone of? A Mark II isn't nearly as packed as a IV or a V. I imagine they're shooting for a II or III with some of the newer features tossed in.
#19
well everything is a imitation amp unless you drop about 1000. cause to be original, you need a top quality product....well atleast a quality and innotive one. that in the world of tube amps = money.

every amp i can think of that is "cheaper" is imitating the sound of something else. pretty much everything bugera makes is imitating something else. samewith a lot of other " cheaper" brands amps.

but in their defense you buy as is, or just throw a eminence in there for like 80 and some new tubes (say like 20) and for 450 you have an amp that pretty much outperforms anything under about 800 new
#20
Quote by Roc8995
Aren't those hand-wired though? I know my hands are bigger than the 12 year old Malaysian orphan who wired it, but at least it won't be the ribbon cable and super cramped PCB that Mesas have. What Mark is it a clone of? A Mark II isn't nearly as packed as a IV or a V. I imagine they're shooting for a II or III with some of the newer features tossed in.

Feature-wise, it's going to be pretty much a Mark IV + some extra stuff. So inside it'll probably be Mark IV cramped + some extra crampiness.

Have you ever seen the inside of a Bugera?
Here are some gutshots: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/BeerChurch/blog/51182/
It's a bit cramped, but it's pretty doable if you're familiar with electronics. I'm not sure about the quality of the PCB though.

@ikey_: Nothing wrong with imitating, IMO.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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Last edited by Kanthras at Jul 16, 2010,
#21
Seen the inside? Yeah, a few times, when I was fixing them for people
The PCB itself is fine, but their component and fastener choice is often really bad. The upside is, if you mod them early, they're fine amps and shouldn't break. The downside is that if you don't, you get to pay me extra to fix it.
#22
Quote by Roc8995
Seen the inside? Yeah, a few times, when I was fixing them for people
The PCB itself is fine, but their component and fastener choice is often really bad. The upside is, if you mod them early, they're fine amps and shouldn't break. The downside is that if you don't, you get to pay me extra to fix it.

Don't count on it, my soldering skillz are sufficiently awesome, if the PCB is as fine as you claim it is (I tend to lift traces with crappy PCBs).
What do you mean with fastener choice though? Choice of that sticky goop found in all Chinese electronics?
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

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#23
Using plastic clips on high-current/voltage wires to avoid having to use good solder, for example.

I didn't mean you'd break it, I meant that if 'you' (anyone) left the amp stock, something will eventually go wrong with the things I usually replace right away, and it costs more to diagnose a problem that's already happened than it does to replace 3 parts so it won't break.
#24
Quote by Roc8995
Using plastic clips on high-current/voltage wires to avoid having to use good solder, for example.

I didn't mean you'd break it, I meant that if 'you' (anyone) left the amp stock, something will eventually go wrong with the things I usually replace right away, and it costs more to diagnose a problem that's already happened than it does to replace 3 parts so it won't break.
Ah, like the infamous transformer clip issue...
Recently BeerChurch had the big 10w resistor fail because some wires were stretched over it, applying pressure to the solder while it got hot from the resistor.

Any chance you can let me in on which other components are prone to failure?
Or is that a trade secret?
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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#25
Quote by Roc8995
Using plastic clips on high-current/voltage wires to avoid having to use good solder, for example.

I didn't mean you'd break it, I meant that if 'you' (anyone) left the amp stock, something will eventually go wrong with the things I usually replace right away, and it costs more to diagnose a problem that's already happened than it does to replace 3 parts so it won't break.


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#26
yeah that would be a good one to know....especially usingit as much as i do. i mean, of course tube amps get hot. and with combos all teh vibration etc. of course tube amps get hot, it guess it depends how well they are ventilated. i do know if you touch the face of my v22 after im playing, it is quite warm to the touch despite it being open back.
#27
I think the V22 is a great amp for the money.

I have had mine for 6-7 months now and play everyday for at least 3 hours and I have yet to have any problems.

About the gain. Stock tubes and gain on 7 is about the limit. But once I replaced the stock 12ax7's with JJ's I could then turn the gain up to 10 if i wanted without it sounding like crap.

I love the voicing on this amp. Vintage. Then I throw a tube screamer and 10 band in the mix and you get a very good thrash metal type of sound. Then I got my 4x12 cab and it now can get really great low end chug.

So I think it is a great amp for blues or rock, but it can do some metal with a few pedals and an extension cab.

A tube swap did make a very big difference, and I highly recommend everyone swap the tubes for some JJ's or something. I originally swapped in some Sovteks, but it didn't make too big a diff. The JJ's made the gain a little smoother sounding and the amp is now a lot quieter. I plan on doing the EL84's next to see if it also impacts the tone and usable gain, like the preamp tubes did.
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#28
Quote by ikey_
yeah that would be a good one to know....especially usingit as much as i do. i mean, of course tube amps get hot. and with combos all teh vibration etc. of course tube amps get hot, it guess it depends how well they are ventilated. i do know if you touch the face of my v22 after im playing, it is quite warm to the touch despite it being open back.

I've heard (sauce: Axe-man69) some of the V22s have a switch regulator overheating problem (for the footswitch). Might be something to look out for.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#29
Quote by Kanthras
Ah, like the infamous transformer clip issue...
Recently BeerChurch had the big 10w resistor fail because some wires were stretched over it, applying pressure to the solder while it got hot from the resistor.

Any chance you can let me in on which other components are prone to failure?
Or is that a trade secret?

That's not the reason it failed. The reason it failed is because they used a cheap resistor that didn't dissipate enough heat, and they use cheap solder, which melted a lower temperature than it should. The wires caused the failure, but it should never get to that point. If you can push a resistor and cause it to come loose, the push is not the problem.

I don't have a list of likely components to fail, unfortunately, but the most obvious weak points are those clips, the bigger resistors, and the solder joints on the filter caps and power supply resistors. The caps themselves are probably fine, I've only seen one fail, but the joints are not good. Going through and reflowing all or most of the connections on the board is a good idea, and costs nothing. Next time I have one on the bench I'll make a better list of upgrades.
#30
i agree after 7 it gets slightly more satruated bot not big tonal difference. gain should almost never need to be on 10 on almost any amp anyways.

i always hear JJ's aparently they are the tubes to get. however, nobody sells them. where can i buy JJs?

what makes a bigger difference? switching the 12ax7s or the el 84s?

which fail first? 12ax7 or el84s?
#31
Quote by Roc8995
I don't have a list of likely components to fail, unfortunately, but the most obvious weak points are those clips, the bigger resistors, and the solder joints on the filter caps and power supply resistors. The caps themselves are probably fine, I've only seen one fail, but the joints are not good. Going through and reflowing all or most of the connections on the board is a good idea, and costs nothing.
Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to do some reflowing next time I open up my Booger.
Next time I have one on the bench I'll make a better list of upgrades.

That would be awesome. If you get around to doing that, you should pm Bloodshed. I'm sure he would add the list to the first page of the Bugera Thread.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#32
Quote by ikey_
i agree after 7 it gets slightly more satruated bot not big tonal difference. gain should almost never need to be on 10 on almost any amp anyways.

i always hear JJ's aparently they are the tubes to get. however, nobody sells them. where can i buy JJs?

what makes a bigger difference? switching the 12ax7s or the el 84s?

which fail first? 12ax7 or el84s?

www.eurotubes.com sells JJ tubes.. and I would say that the EL84s would probably fail first, but who knows.
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#33
and if your buying a 350 dollar tube amp....come on people you have to know that its not top of the line.

i understand components are cheaper. they must be. do you really think a lexus will ever be what a high end BMW is or jump more.....say a bently etc? tere MUST be differences despite what adds say. and similar to cars, (in general) like music the asian stuff is cheaper for a reason.

sure toyotas drive forever...but no asian car (with exception of the maybach and some super cars) is going to be like a bently, rolls, aston martin etc.

ad most people buying soemthing like a v22, will probably buy something better later on anyways. as long as my v22 doesnt break in the next few year im happy. but in 5-8 years if it craps out....screw it. by then then i will have a FAR better setup, and teh v22 ont be worth much anyways.

on another note, jammed with some fellas yesturday. i was even playing next to a 300w ampeg bass rig with 8x10 cab. the V22 could be heard fine. you have to go minimum of 666 on the volumes...maybe up to about 7. thats about 7 on the master and about 6 on the channels is how i had it. about 6-7 on presence (i like attack, and it helps with the hearing too).

so you have to push it a bit, but it can easily be heard in a band scenario. if not...mic it. and, tube amps sound good driven hard anyways so you know it will sound its best rather than a huge amp barely working.
Last edited by ikey_ at Jul 18, 2010,