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#1
A while ago, me and a friend got into this debate about the existence of 'time'. You know, the possibility of time travel, slowing or stoping time, whether it even existed, etc.

Basically, my argument was that because there was nothing to actually grasp time, it doesn't exist. I mean, telling time is a man made invention. We created minutes, seconds, weeks, years, it didn't just spring up into order and we were born of that knowledge.

It is also completely impossible, in my opinion, to actually travel back in time, seeing that there is nothing to actually travel back to. After all, it's not like there is some hidden 'force' or anamoly to latch on, and then backtrack from there.

He thought I was completely insane.

Anyway, I was wondering, what does the Pit think?
#2
Time measurement as in hours, minutes, etc. is man made, time is not.
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#3
Times doesn't exist clocks do.
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#4
There is no time, only Zuul.
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#6
Quote by damian_91
Time measurement as in hours, minutes, etc. is man made, time is not.


But how do we know? The only way to know there is 'time' IS by these measurements, and if that's true, then wouldn't 'time' in itself be a man made concept?

I think it's a little early in the morning for me to be debating, so forgive me if my answers come off as a little wierd.
#7
I think basically what you think,Time is made up,and the past is a word referring to something that has happened, and the future a word referring to something that will or could happen,.Not some kind of place or something that you can just travel to.
#8
OK, but serious answer, space and time are linked together: space-time. Our concept of time isn't really how space-time works (well, unless you study space-time and have an idea of how it works, though not even the smartest scientists have a good understanding of the universe).

As for traveling through time, you can only do two things: not travel or travel into the future.
Lord Gold feeds from your orifices and he wants to see you sweat.
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#9
I forget where I read it (Discover magazine probably. Yeah, Im a nerd), but traveling back in time might be possible, but traveling forward isn't. You could only travel back as far as when the time machine was created, though, so it wouldn't be much use to you for a while. However, this would mean that an endless torrent of people would come out of the time machine sometime after it was created, since the world will eventually get seriously ****ed up and people will escape to the only safe place, the past.

Basically, time travel **** with your mind. I try not to think about it, because I always think too deep into it.
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#10
Quote by lordofthefood1
OK, but serious answer, space and time are linked together: space-time. Our concept of time isn't really how space-time works (well, unless you study space-time and have an idea of how it works, though not even the smartest scientists have a good understanding of the universe).

As for traveling through time, you can only do two things: not travel or travel into the future.


Do you mind explaining further please? This sounds interesting.
#12
Is there any science behind the study of time or at least the wonder of it?
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#13
time exists. We have made names and measurements for it. by saying that it is impossible to travel back in time, you are agreeing that it actually exists. if it didn't, there would be free access to anywhere in what we call time.

unless of course, you're one of those that doesn't think anything exists, in which case there is no point in arguing with you as neither side has any ground to stand on in the others mind.

EDIT: traveling to the past is and will always be impossible. seeing into the past/future is more possible, but as far as traveling goes, traveling forward is the only thing that could possibly work.
Last edited by sandyman323 at Jul 17, 2010,
#14
time exists, the name "time" and the measurement of it, is man made.

the sun will set regardless of measurement or name, if humans didnt exist, time would still exist as normal

edit: also, i know you can slow your advance through time, because the closer you get to the speed of light time slows around you and proceeds as normal everywheres else, which means i guess you could sorta travel through time as everyone would be older and different when you return
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Last edited by ghostnineone at Jul 17, 2010,
#15
Time is real. It's measurement is a man made construct.
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#16
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I forget where I read it (Discover magazine probably. Yeah, Im a nerd), but traveling back in time might be possible, but traveling forward isn't. You could only travel back as far as when the time machine was created, though, so it wouldn't be much use to you for a while. However, this would mean that an endless torrent of people would come out of the time machine sometime after it was created, since the world will eventually get seriously ****ed up and people will escape to the only safe place, the past.

Basically, time travel **** with your mind. I try not to think about it, because I always think too deep into it.

No. If you could time travel it would only be in the future but it wouldn't truly be time travel. You would have to be going faster than the speed of light for years because time would slow down for you but time for everyone else would go by normally. You would age very little and when you stop you would be in the future sort of.
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#17
Watch that Stephen Hawking special that was playing on Discovery or Science Channel a few weeks ago. I think it was called 'Into the Cosmos' or something like that. There was one entire episode dedicated to time travel.

Basically, Hawking debunked the possibility of time travel to the past when he brought up the concept of infinite feedback, or paradoxes.
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#18
Well particle such as photons don't experience time, so strictly speaking they could go back and forward in what we would call time and them just a different location in the same moment.

I shall get back to you at around noon-ish today after some sleep for details.

Quote by cloudjessie42
Watch that Stephen Hawking special that was playing on Discovery or Science Channel a few weeks ago. I think it was called 'Into the Cosmos' or something like that. There was one entire episode dedicated to time travel.

Basically, Hawking debunked the possibility of time travel to the past when he brought up the concept of infinite feedback, or paradoxes.


Yeah but the Many Worlds interpretation gets rid of the paradoxical nature of time travel, so you never know.

Again, more details at noon-ish if you want.
Last edited by br33dlove at Jul 17, 2010,
#19
Travel to the past is impossibal. travel to the future though is possibal and we know how to do it. An object traveling the speed (or near it) can travel forward in time. i forget how but my physics teacher explained it. just google it i guess
#20
Because things that are not can't be! Then nothing wouldn't be. You can't have nothing is and everything isn't!


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#21
Quote by lordofthefood1
There is no time, only Zuul.



And TS, no I don't think time travel is possible, because time is man made. I like the theory of the butterfly effect though. I don't completely understand it, as with most things in the field of physics, but what I comprehend sounds plausible and very possible.
#22
Quote by smartalec007
I forget where I read it (Discover magazine probably. Yeah, Im a nerd), but traveling back in time might be possible, but traveling forward isn't. You could only travel back as far as when the time machine was created, though, so it wouldn't be much use to you for a while. However, this would mean that an endless torrent of people would come out of the time machine sometime after it was created, since the world will eventually get seriously ****ed up and people will escape to the only safe place, the past.

Basically, time travel **** with your mind. I try not to think about it, because I always think too deep into it.


Aren't you traveling forward through time all now?

Also TS time is relative, that is why when people speak of time travel, they usually reference it to another time in their life. Humans relate to time through terms they've made, such as hours, days, years and so on.

It is possible to view things back in time though, for example, the light from distance galaxies now reaching Earth, the photons were emitted a hundreds of years ago.

EDIT: Also because time is relative, you could 'time travel' per se by traveling near the speed of light. How you do that with the mass you have is another problem.
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Last edited by rock.freak667 at Jul 17, 2010,
#23
Time is the greatest lie ever been told. It does not exist, we just believe it does.

Now decide: Am I speaking of time or the wintersun album Time?
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#24
Quote by rock.freak667
Aren't you traveling forward through time all now?

Also TS time is relative, that is why when people speak of time travel, they usually reference it to another time in their life. Humans relate to time through terms they've made, such as hours, days, years and so on.

It is possible to view things back in time though, for example, the light from distance galaxies now reaching Earth, the photons were emitted a hundreds of years ago.

EDIT: Also because time is relative, you could 'time travel' per se by traveling near the speed of light. How you do that with the mass you have is another problem.

Leaping forward might be a better way to describe it.
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#25
Quote by rock.freak667
Aren't you traveling forward through time all now?

Also TS time is relative, that is why when people speak of time travel, they usually reference it to another time in their life. Humans relate to time through terms they've made, such as hours, days, years and so on.

It is possible to view things back in time though, for example, the light from distance galaxies now reaching Earth, the photons were emitted millions/billions of years ago.


fixd :P

and i think they mean traveling forward by any significant amount
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#26
im very surprised at the lack of science enthusiasts thoroughly explaining this matter. only one who seems to know what

You could only travel back as far as when the time machine was created, though, so it wouldn't be much use to you for a while

this, however, is true.

time does exist regardless of our existence or system of measurement. the most important thing to understand about it is that it is RELATIVE, it is not absolute. so as a matter of fact there is no such thing as now, past present and future all coexist. it was sort of a trade off that einstein carried out when he was writing his special relativity paper. either time had to be absolute, or the speed of light, and obviously he chose the speed of light.
#27
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Time is the greatest lie ever been told. It does not exist, we just believe it does.

Now decide: Am I speaking of time or the wintersun album Time?

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That should be a meme by now
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#28
Quote by rock.freak667
Aren't you traveling forward through time all now?


I think he means jumping points.
But since the future is constantly becoming the present...

Also TS time is relative, that is why when people speak of time travel, they usually reference it to another time in their life. Humans relate to time through terms they've made, such as hours, days, years and so on.

Developed outta necessity

It is possible to view things back in time though, for example, the light from distance galaxies now reaching Earth, the photons were emitted a hundreds of years ago.

More like millions of years ago, but to be fair you're looking at a light particle which you're observing in the present making it present, it's just old

EDIT: Also because time is relative, you could 'time travel' per se by traveling near the speed of light. How you do that with the mass you have is another problem.


my answers not in bold
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#29
These threads hurt my brain. I have an idea, let's all just say that this is a matter far beyond the comprehension of mere mortal, non-omniscient (surely there's a word for that) minds and move on please. My brain can't process matters this large in scale at 10 PM.
#30
Huh, some of you guys are bringing up interesting arguments. Keep it up!

To expand on my argument, even if time doesn't exist, wouldn't everything go on as normal? Planets will still orbit suns, light will reach these planets, meteors will still bombard surfaces of other planets, etc. How can time actually control these 'activites', the movement of anamolies in space, or suns exploding? I mean, how do we know 'time' in the means of a force actuallly exists.

I'll admit my knowledge of time, space, or hell even basic physics is rather limited, so bare with me please, I tend to be pretty slow.
#31
Quote by Ekho33
Do you mind explaining further please? This sounds interesting.

You are either moving or you aren't. If it were possible to stay in the same exact place and in the same exact state, you wouldn't be traveling through time. When you are just doing your regular thing, you are moving into the future.
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#32
Quote by gnrlover1
im very surprised at the lack of science enthusiasts thoroughly explaining this matter. only one who seems to know what


this, however, is true.

time does exist regardless of our existence or system of measurement. the most important thing to understand about it is that it is RELATIVE, it is not absolute. so as a matter of fact there is no such thing as now, past present and future all coexist. it was sort of a trade off that einstein carried out when he was writing his special relativity paper. either time had to be absolute, or the speed of light, and obviously he chose the speed of light.


good point, correct me if im wrong (probably am) but isnt there "technically" a past, present, and future? even though, the events of the future (and possibly the past) are happening now, but the events of the past arent occurring now
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#33
This pretty much sums up what thinking about time travel has done to me.

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#34
My brain, what did you do to it???
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#35
Quote by Ekho33
Huh, some of you guys are bringing up interesting arguments. Keep it up!

To expand on my argument, even if time doesn't exist, wouldn't everything go on as normal? Planets will still orbit suns, light will reach these planets, meteors will still bombard surfaces of other planets, etc. How can time actually control these 'activites', the movement of anamolies in space, or suns exploding? I mean, how do we know 'time' in the means of a force actuallly exists.

I'll admit my knowledge of time, space, or hell even basic physics is rather limited, so bare with me please, I tend to be pretty slow.


no, because if time didnt exist, none of these events would have occurred, nothing would exist, time wouldnt have caused them to happen, i.e. time wouldnt have allowed the big bang to happen (things were probably around before that, i doubt we came from nothing, as SOMETHING had to form the singularity it started from)

edit: most people consider the big bang to be the "start" of time and the end of the universe to be the "end" of time, but this isnt really true, time will be around after the end of the universe, and before it
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Last edited by ghostnineone at Jul 17, 2010,
#36
Maybe I'm being thick here, but I honestly think people just overthink this sort of stuff far too much. Time is just change.

If everything in the universe was completely still, you may as well say there's no such thing as time, since it would be completely redundant. No matter what point in time you looked at, everything would be exactly the same as any other point.

I'm not really sure how to explain what I'm thinking here, but my point is, there's no such thing as "time". There is such a thing a change though, and all time really measures is how much has changed between two moments if that makes sense.

Think of a bag of beads hanging from a hook. So long as the beads and the bag don't move, you may as well say there's no such thing as time within that bag since there's absolutely no change whatsoever in that space. As soon as the bag opens and the beads fall out, time is moving forward because things are changing.

The only way I could imagine going backwards in time would be if we could somehow take a snapshot of every single particle in the universe, including position, velocity, angle, and whatever else as a reference to travel back to.
#37
Quote by Snake_42
Maybe I'm being thick here, but I honestly think people just overthink this sort of stuff far too much. Time is just change.

If everything in the universe was completely still, you may as well say there's no such thing as time, since it would be completely redundant. No matter what point in time you looked at, everything would be exactly the same as any other point.

I'm not really sure how to explain what I'm thinking here, but my point is, there's no such thing as "time". There is such a thing a change though, and all time really measures is how much has changed between two moments if that makes sense.

Think of a bag of beads hanging from a hook. So long as the beads and the bag don't move, you may as well say there's no such thing as time within that bag since there's absolutely no change whatsoever in that space. As soon as the bag opens and the beads fall out, time is moving forward because things are changing.

The only way I could imagine going backwards in time would be if we could somehow take a snapshot of every single particle in the universe, including position, velocity, angle, and whatever else as a reference to travel back to.


if there was no time, nothing would exist, also, the beads and the bag may be still but the particles in them, and everything around them are moving,
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#38
if time doesnt exist our universe wouldnt exist, seeing as the fabric of the universe is SPACETIME.
Planets will still orbit suns, light will reach these planets, meteors will still bombard surfaces of other planets
, This in itself is evidence of passing time. nothing can exist without time, just think about it.
Last edited by gnrlover1 at Jul 17, 2010,
#39
Quote by ghostnineone
no, because if time didnt exist, none of these events would have occurred, nothing would exist, time wouldnt have caused them to happen, i.e. time wouldnt have allowed the big bang to happen (things were probably around before that, i doubt we came from nothing, as SOMETHING had to form the singularity it started from)


But how do we know that 'time' exists is what I'm saying? How can nothing exist without it? (I might just be confusing our definitons of time) How does time actually control what happens around us, or in space? Is existence impossible without time? I'm legitametly curious now.
#40
Quote by Ekho33

To expand on my argument, even if time doesn't exist, wouldn't everything go on as normal? Planets will still orbit suns, light will reach these planets, meteors will still bombard surfaces of other planets, etc. How can time actually control these 'activites', the movement of anamolies in space, or suns exploding? I mean, how do we know 'time' in the means of a force actuallly exists.


Well if time does not exist, I don't think could actually measure or observe these things. As removing a fundamental physical quantity would render anything associated with it null and void.
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